Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[Petronski]

The Greek word there is orama/horama (hor'-am-ah): something gazed at; that which is seen; i.e. a spectacle.


Your insistence that it is 'a vision' as in 'something seen which is not there' uses the term in a secondary sense of its meaning.


The primary meaning of the term is to be read as "Tell no one of what you have seen here until the Son of man be risen again from the dead."

[Petronski]

There was no Pope in the time.

LOL

There is an unbroken line of men who have occupied the office now known as "Pope."

[TOUGH STOUGH]

I think the church was (quite wrongly)selling indulgences IN THE MIDDLE AGES!!!!

This is TWO THOUSAND FOUR and Catholic bigots STILL BRING IT UP!!

(shhhh!!!!) Although as a child, I did open up a stand on the corner and was caught selling indulgences for $.10 a glass and $1.00 a pitcher.

[Petronski]

I wasn't put here to be liked by you. I was put here to save your soul.

Meds run out again?

Crawl down from the cross, it's not your place.

[Havoc]

Um, you are trying to define it as an english term. The scripture defines it with the term understood by the state of Being of the Greek. The definition you're trying to foist upon the Greek does not fit. That is why the word Vision was chosen for the special meaning. Vision as in A Vision. Hint, it's the same word used here: 18:9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid , but speak, and hold not thy peace:

I would submit and have submitted it is you and yours who are and have been twisting. God was wise enough to put a brick wall up in your path. And it is evident to all of us the efforts you are making to get around it. You can't. Deal with it.

[Havoc]

That is the claim. It isn't true, but that is the claim.

[Petronski]

What you call the claim is the very definition of the term. Yours is the claim.

[Thorin]

Even secular historians accept that the Papacy is the oldest institution in the West. On what basis do you doubt it, a Jack Chick Bible tract?

[Havoc]

What? What are you smoking? Your church claims that the term pope existed all the way back to Peter. It didn't. The term wasn't defined nor did the office exist until Rome defrauded the world via isidore and Gratian. There wasn't a line of popes until it was invented for the claim. After it was invented, there is no agreement on who was pope when or for how long in many instances because there is either little evidence or none. I have copies of the official Papal deeds - 12 of them. All 12 of them are different. You have people on the list that you call antipopes. In other words, you say satan infallibly led the church - that's the shorthand. So because a man of the devil infallibly led as it were, that's an unbroken chain. Who are you trying to shine on? The first actual pope didn't come about by title or definition of office for most of a millenium. The title was backward applied inventively to establish an appearance that is belied by actual history.
In otherwords, sell your story walking. I've researched the matter - female pope and all.

[Havoc]

I agree. It is an old institution. It goes back to the last half of the first millenium. But even that was a matter of fraudulent claim. It only gained assent through fraud. That is the history. And that known and documented fraud is still to this day considered by historians as the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on mankind. And it was the Roman Church that did it. What do you expect people think of "Christians" because of that? Your witness goes before you.

[Petronski]

Your church claims that the term pope existed all the way back to Peter.

Can you document that?

The office, the role extends back to Peter. There is an unending chain of vicars. But where is it claimed that the 'term' pope existed back to Peter?

In other words, you say satan infallibly led the church - that's the shorthand.

That's YOUR shorthand. But then again, you're abusing/stretching/changing the definition of 'infallibility.'

[Petronski]

It only gained assent through fraud.

Documentation.

That is the history. And that known and documented fraud is still to this day considered by historians as the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on mankind.

Identify some of them for us.

[Thorin]

No, it goes back to Peter, who was succeeded by Linus, who was succeeded by Anacletus, who was succeeded by Clement, etc., etc. The succession is documented by, among others, Irenaeus, who was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John. Yes, the John of the New Testament.

[Havoc]

Can you document that? The office, the role extends back to Peter. There is an unending chain of vicars. But where is it claimed that the 'term' pope existed back to Peter?

Yeah, in action. Very easily. It's just like the way the devil teaches evolution. It is stated as theory in the first five seconds and ever after referred to as though it were a fact. The reason behind the stance is that the illusion of an unbroken Papal line is more important to you than people knowing the truth. And the truth is that the office didn't exist at all in Christ's time, nor did it exist at the time of Constantine or Theodosius, ... It's a lie. It's akin to saying Chief so and so in America was the first president of the United states 300 years before Columbus landed because we invented the office for washington; but, wanted our claim bolstered against the British by showing ownership of office and land titles in this country to prove it didn't belong to the Brits. You'll note that We didn't do that. We had a just cause here in rebelling against Britain. You guys just defrauded the world and went on because truth doesn't trump ambition for your clergy.

That's YOUR shorthand. But then again, you're abusing/stretching/changing the definition of 'infallibility.'

The issue isn't infallibility. Get out of Catholic answers for a few seconds and into the conversation. The issue wasn't infallibility. The issue is filling gaps with Antipopes where no actual pope existed and pretending there's an unbroken line. That is fraud - Or fraud on top of fraud as it were. But if you're going to do a great big fraud, a minor one like this is no problem, right..

[Havoc]

I've given you the names already. Isidore and Gratian. I know you guys play ignorant on the subject. I also know the official line. Go read.

[Petronski]

But if you're going to do a great big fraud, a minor one like this is no problem, right..

This should be your new tagline, it suits you beautifully.

[malakhi]

One more "good" Catholic to be added to the list of "kill the heretics when we are in charge".

Wow, doesn't get any more blatant than that.

You really should stop your Catholic-bashing, Reg. Your attitude is detrimental to the peaceful function of this forum. </sarcasm>

[Clemenza]

I'm willing to bet that if you did a study, the majority of folks who have seen the film in the USA ARE Evangelical Protestants.

[Havoc]

Reggie was responding to someone who stated the inquisitions and thus the burning of heretics should be brought back. It isn't a rare position, malakhi. Are we to assume that you share in that position?

[TASMANIANRED]

"Can you document that?

The office, the role extends back to Peter"


I don't have immediate access to a bible for the exact phraseology,
The position of vicar of the church comes from Jesus changing the name from Simon to Peter.

"You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church".