Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[presidio9]

THE controversial Mel Gibson film 'The Passion of the Christ' has been dismissed by the Evangelical Protestant Society as a 'Catholic' interpretation of events which "does not present the Gospel".

Wallace Thompson, secretary of the Evangelical Protestant Society, said the film displayed "an un-Biblical fixation on Mary, the mother of Jesus. None of this should surprise us, for both Mel Gibson and Jim Caviezel, who plays the part of Christ, are enthusiastic devotees of the traditional teachings of the Church of Rome."

He further claims that Mel Gibson "belongs to an ultra-conservative Catholic group which does not recognise the reforms of Vatican II, and celebrates Mass in Latin".

Mr Thompson says that "this malign influence of Rome ought to cause all evangelical Protestants to reject The Passion of the Christ" and refuse to be swayed by the subtleties of the alleged arguments in favour of it.

Sadly, however, it will be welcomed and praised by many who ought to know better."

Mr Thompson also says that the film is "extremely violent", and that "anyone who watches it will be shaken and possibly terrified by its graphic and bloody scenes."

[Havoc]

Matthew 17:9 - Christ said it was a vision. End of discussion.

[iconoclast]

This will make the defenders of the "one true...." angry.

Actually, it made me smile. Surely you can do better than this poor soul.

[Havoc]

3705 // orama // horama // hor'-am-ah //

from 3708 ; TDNT - 5:371,706; n n

AV - vision 11, sight 1; 12

1) that which is seen, spectacle
2) a sight divinely granted in an ecstasy or in a sleep, a vision

[OLD REGGIE]

Where are the records? What records? Please, produce them, from the Vatican records. All researches who have seen them, say that there was no selling of indulgences. St. Peter's was built with donations, admitedly some may have been coerced, but indulgences were never sold.

Dream on.

Where are the records of Peter's 25 year reign as Pope/Bishop of Rome?

[OLD REGGIE]

I can't get her to admit to a single word in scripture and you want an apology from her? LOL. Reggie, you should know better by now :)

I don't expect an apology. She can continue with her lying if it makes her happy.

[Havoc]

This is the word from mark 9:9

1492 // eidw // eido // i'-do // or
// oida // oida // oy'-da //

a root word; TDNT - 5:116, 673; v

AV - know 281, cannot tell + 3756 8, know how 7, wist 6, misc 19,
see 314, behold 17, look 6, perceive 5, vr see 3, vr know 1; 667

1) to see
1a) to perceive with the eyes
1b) to perceive by any of the senses
1c) to perceive, notice, discern, discover
1d) to see
1d1) i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything
1d2) to pay attention, observe
1d3) to see about something
1d31) i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it
1d4) to inspect, examine
1d5) to look at, behold
1e) to experience any state or condition
1f) to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit
2) to know
2a) to know of anything
2b) to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive
2b1) of any fact
2b2) the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning
2b3) to know how, to be skilled in
2c) to have regard for one, cherish, pay attention to ( 1Th 5:12 )

Mark 9:9 doesn't refute Matthew, it merely generalizes it. Matthew gives more detail on this point. As I said. This is what it says - end of it. VISION.

[Havoc]

LOL. The blind cover their eyes and ears and dispute with themselves against the truth to thier own destruction. What can ya do but what you are doing ;) How are you by the way? lol

[OLD REGGIE]

The church has never taught the sale of indulgences and if it was done, it was done in error,...

This is a massive change from your first "never sold" statement. Sign off and run away. You have admitted your error in some small way.

[OLD REGGIE]

Hey, you're a Cult of One! What do you care what we think? You already know everything!

I know enough that I'm happy God didn't see fit for you and your kind to rule the world. I'd certainly have been burned at the stake some time ago.

[B-Chan]

“That which is seen.” Thank you for making my point for me.

[OLD REGGIE]

Actually, it made me smile. Surely you can do better than this poor soul.

And I assume she is a "poor soul" because she left the RCC?

[OLD REGGIE]

How are you by the way? lol

Doing fine for an old geezer. I'm having fun with the "hate patrol".

[Havoc]

Right, that which is seen - but finish the thought. This is a state of being language.

[TOUGH STOUGH]

In regards to #466, that is pretty much the same reality I have experienced in the real world as well.

I went to see the Passion with my parish priest and a group from our congregation. On the way, in the car, a woman who had been raised in the parish asked me if I had grown up in the area. I told her I had been raised in a parish several miles away. She told me that she had experienced a lot of anti-catholic bigotry while growing up in our town and that she had always been taught in Catholic schools to respect other religions, but she had not received the same in return (from either Protestants or the Jews). She was a good deal older than I but I told her we had been taught likewise, and that growing up I did not experience the same bigotry, but have expiries it from time to time as an adult.

Occasionally, when I meet protestants and the subject turns to religion, the questions always revolve around the same issues; confession, our "worship" of the blessed virgin and the saints and I always patiently explain that we are not confessing to a man and we do not "worship" the saints blah, blah, blah...But it is clear to me that protestants are far more bothered by the beliefs of Catholic then vice versa. The Catholic faith is quite a bit more mystical than the Protestant faith, but there is also much mysticism in the bible in which People witnessed visions of all kinds from God, Moses, Abraham, and from Angels, as did the mother of God. And the Lord Jesus was visited and seen by many witnesses after he died and then rose from the dead. How much more mystically symbolic can you get than revelations?

Therefore, I wish protestants would just accept that Catholics have some mystical beliefs originating from the bible, that protestants do not and GET OVER IT!!!!!!

[Havoc]

1) that which is seen, spectacle

IE everything on that line is part of the meaning.
The second meaning is the one that was applied due to context and other factors. You are trying to reinterpret the scripture to a meaning you like.

2) a sight divinely granted in an ecstasy or in a sleep, a vision

Number two is the given translation that has stood and still stands. It may be a stone of stumbling for you; but, that isn't my problem.

[LoudRepublicangirl]

Maybe this chap is just a wee upset that the film was not in gaelic.

[Havoc]

LOL. It's always a joy to suffer for Christ isn't it (eyes rolling) but we bare it willingly thank God or nobody would hear the truth. Glad to hear you are well, brother. I saw a bit of an uproar on the CC thread some days back and didn't have time then to address it. Anything I should go back and review?

[TOUGH STOUGH]

expiries=experienced

[Thorin]

What nap?

Perhaps you are referring to the "nap" that "Bible Christians" apparently believe was taken by the Truth from about the end of the 1st Century, after the New Testament was compiled, until 19th century America, when the historical records indicate that some people FIRST began to believe the what "Bible Christians" now proclaim. Quite a gap, especially considering Christ's words about founding a church in Matthew 16:18.

[B-Chan]

Again, thanks for making my point for me: vision = “to see, to perceive with the eyes, to perceive by any of the senses, to perceive, notice, discern, discover to see (i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything), to pay attention, to observe, to see about something ( i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it ), to inspect, examine, to look at, behold, to experience any state or condition, to see, to have an interview with, to visit”. Nothing about ghostly visitations there!

Squirm, squirm all you like — it's easier than admitting that you were wrong!

However, since you do refuse to humbly admit to your error, it's obvious that no amount of discussion will serve any purpose; you know it all, and no one can tell you differently. Therefore, I will cease toying with you as of this post.

Relax and enjoy your homemade religion, O Pope Havoc. Rest secure in the knowledge that you and only you can rightly discern Christian truth.