Portland Police Bureau recalls .45 caliber Glock weapons after incidents

Albany Democrat-Herald ^ | 16 March 2004 | AP

[45Auto]

Portland Police Chief Derrick Foxworth has ordered a recall of .45-caliber Glock Model 21 firearms, weapons carried by 230 Portland officers.

His order comes after two of the guns exploded in the hands of two separate officers during training this month. Neither of the officers was seriously injured.

"We don't want a reoccurrence of this happening again," Foxworth said. "It's the prudent thing to do."

The Portland Police Bureau at first thought the problem was caused by an ammunition malfunction. After the second explosion, the bureau's training division did further analysis and determined the explosions may have been caused by a defect in the weapon or a design problem.

Police will switch to 9 mm handguns. They are negotiating with officials at Georgia-based Glock to replace the .45-caliber weapons with 9 mm handguns at no cost.

Because the .45-caliber Glock is popular among law enforcement, the Portland police training officers sent a teletype to agencies nationwide. They heard back from several, including agencies in Florida and Texas, that had similar problems.

Other agencies, including the Los Angeles Police Department, and Multnomah and Clackamas counties sheriff's departments, reported no problems.

[ampat]

I'm with you Sargeant Major. I'll take my Springfield 1911AI, with hardball ammo, for reliable self-defense anytime. I don't think I'll need a 13+ round mag, just a few well-placed shots.

[El Gato]

The culprit is generally either reloaded ammo, or improper ammo leading to a casing failure. I have a Glock 23 (.40 S&W) and shoot it quite frequently with no problems -- but then I don't re-load. No compaints here

That must explain why the owner/rangemaster/CHL instructor at my range is so hard over against re-loads and non name brand ammo, even for practice. He's a Glock afficiando, and rents only Glock handguns.

[Squantos]

My glocks (21-17-19-21-34-23and a 30) all have a gazillion rounds thru em and they haven't eakered me yet ! Roll yer own w/ 4.5 grains of 231 covered with a 230gr H&G cast bullet in that G21. Course my G21 barrel was swapped to a Jarvis Inc's version so I could shoot that lead properly..

BTW.......The new RCBS lock out reloading dies make it too easy to never phucup a reload.

I have one of the first glock 17's made and that puppy has had a lot of free goobermint ammo thru it too. Cops don't get enough range time to even approach too much mechanical wear and tear aside from cosmetic holster scuff on the tenifer.

I smell a hammer monkey graduate of the glock armorers school that slept thru the best parts of the school.

Stay safe ya'll !!

[glock rocks]

Do I recall that correctly?

I don't think so. I'm aware of the KB's, never seen one, but have seen the pics.

[aomagrat]

My Glock 36 KaBoomed the same day I bought it, on the 9th round. It was repaired for free with a EFK barrel. No problems since, and it shoots sweet. I've never had any problems with my Glock 22.

[The KG9 Kid]

Thanks for the reply. I couldn't be sure.

[TXBSAFH]

I love and carry my G21. It has had over 3000 rounds with no problems.

[Myrddin]

My Glock 23C has a Jarvis barrel. The original owner decided to remove a squib from the factory Glock barrel by drilling it out. The drill went through the side of the barrel. He ordered the Jarvis replacement and prompted traded the Glock 23C for something else.

The 50 yard berm at my range has a table with 6 pivoted steel plates (4X4 inches, 1/4" thick). A .38SPL 125 gr will "wiggle" those plates unless the shot is placed perfectly at the top of the plate. A 9mm rifle (Ruger PC9) with Wolf 124 gr will knock them down every time. The Glock 23C with Federal 165 gr will knock them down every time too.

[Myrddin]

prompted promptly

[Rocky Mountain High]

Best PDF handgun ever made, IMO :>

[Squantos]

The compensated versions were avoided by me for carry or duty . There are sources of commercial ammo these days that has zero flash but I just never bought one of the "C" versions. How do ya like yours ?

Stay safe !

[Lurker]

Don't hold back there, tell us what you really think.

I totally concur BTW.

L

[MileHi]

The military has to use FMJ but does it have to be round nosed? I think a .40 with a truncated, flat meplate FMJ would transfer energy better while still maintaining capacity. What say you?

[Charles Martel]

I seem to recall a thread where you chided me for pushing the 'myth' that Glocks are prone to blowing up with some loads because of the inherent design flaw with the unsupported chamber.

I recall something about the "unsupported case head" chamber design being discussed on GlockTalk, back when the compact double-stack .45 (G36?) was finally trickling into the gun shops.

[templar]

I own a Glock 21, .45ACP. Anyone else that owns one can confirm that they will fire out of battery by (Unload the thing first!!) pushing the slide back slightly and holding it tightly in that position while pulling the trigger. Mine will fire while at least a sixteenth inch back from full lock up. It is not malfunctioning, everyone I have ever seen will do this. There are two main problems (that I am aware of) that can cause this to happen while firing the weapon.
(1)Foremost: firing lead bullets or copper plated lead bullets. They can shave a ring of lead in the front of the chamber resulting in the next round being held back from fully chambering (it can be an additive effect over extended shooting and is not solved by simple cleaning techniques) and causing the gun to be out of battery when the trigger is pulled (lead can also build up in the barrel and cause excessive pressures if a copper bullet is fired behind lead bullets).
(2) Weak recoil spring causing a slightly mis-sized reload (OAL or Crimp/body diameter)to stop before being fully chambered causing the out of battery condition (this condition is frequently evidenced in advance by mis fires from seemingly light primer strikes).

Solution: Don't shoot reloads unless you are willing to use copper jacketed bullets (not copper plated) and keep close watch on sizing, OAL, and trim length. Keep a spare recoil assembly on hand and replace it if you even suspect it might be getting weak (cost less than 10 bucks). An extra power recoil rod and spring may also be advised if you shoot reloads. Better still, shoot only factory ammo: It's the only thing guaranteed safe, that's why Glock warns against reloads and voids it's warranty if you use reloads.

[TERMINATTOR]

Morris: >> NLETS wire - G21 and Fed ammo (Glock Talk - Cop Talk)

Sent 3/4

Request National Broadcast

Per PPB training, please read and dissiminate the following national teletype:
*****SAFETY INFORMATION*****

Portland Police Bureau advises all law enforcement agencies of two incidents of catastrophic failure during firearms training. Both incidents involved Glock Model 21 (45) and Federal 230 Hi-Shok practice ammunition. The failure is described as follows:

Both officers stated no noticeable differences upon firing. Both handguns has casings expand and failed to extract. The gases escaped by blowing a hole through the side of the caseing (sic) tearing away the bottom half of the barrel at the locking lugs, bending them downward at approximately 30 degree angle. The gases continued throught (sic) the trigger housing and magazine well, destroying both components completely. Additionally the upper was separated from the lower, blowing each upper several feet forward of the firing position. Both officers suffered only minor injuries from shrapnel type debris. PPB is temporarily suspending all use of Federal 230 practice ammo pending investigation.

Any agencies with like incidents please contact Sgt. Mike Lee at Portland Police Bureau training 503-823-0820 or 793-9389.

===========================================================

Prosser: >> The ammo in the two guns from Portland was Federal Classic Hi-Shok, 45D. Reportedly the ammo was from two different lots, but the numbers are available if you call the training division.

Today the Portland Chief issued a memo saying some remaining ammo was sent to a lab (can't remember which one) and tested and found to be within standards for safe operation. After hearing from other departments the training division determined it is the design of the Glock barrel that caused the failures.

Therefore, the Chief has agreed to recall and replace all Glock 21's and 30's carried by officers. After those have been replaced no officer will be allowed to carry a 21 or 30 while on duty. Portland officers will only be issued 9mm Glocks from now on.

[45Auto]

Your analysis of the relatively loose Glock chamber dimensions as the major cause in the Glock KaBoom! saga is correct. We laughingly call this the "ramped, but fully unsupported" barrel. Most of the civilian blowups can be accounted for by idiots producing doubly-charged rounds. Explosions in law enforcement hands (or case blowouts - its not clear from this article which type of KaBoom! they were experiencing) are not so clearly understood since I don't think that police departments use reloaded or hand-loaded rounds.

There has been a lot of speculation about the Glock problems. Three theories have emerged: some units have a timing problem in which they will fire before they are completely locked up; unsupported chambers could lead to case blowouts with both factory and hand-loaded rounds; some of the Glock barrels seem to have a metallurgy problem, i.e., they have measured out pretty low on the Brinnell Hardness Scale. I have replaced the factory barrels (with KKM Precision barrels) on my Model 17 and Model 21 and will soon do the same on my Model 22.

[Myrddin]

The comp keeps the muzzle nearly level. It takes very little movement to place the sights back to point of aim for a rapid followup shot. Recoil is minimal with 165 or 180 gr rounds. I accustomed to keeping a .454 Casull under firm control, so the Glock 23C is much easier.

I don't carry it for self defense. Strictly for playtime at the range. An S&W 686+ with .357 mag JHP is the preferred carry. It doesn't fling brass all over the place either :-)