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Ohio's Critical Analysis of Evolution
Critical Evaluation of Evolution ^ | March 2004 | Ohio State Board of Education

Posted on 03/13/2004 11:53:26 AM PST by js1138

Critical Analysis of Evolution – Grade 10 

 

Life Sciences

 

Benchmark H

Describe a foundation of biological evolution as the change in gene frequency of a population over time. Explain the historical and current scientific developments, mechanisms and processes of biological evolution. Describe how scientists continue to investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory. (The intent of this benchmark does not mandate the teaching or testing of intelligent design.)

 

Indicator 23

Describe how scientists continue to investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory. (The intent of this indicator does not mandate the teaching or testing of intelligent design.)

 

Scientific Ways of Knowing

 

Benchmark A

Explain that scientific knowledge must be based on evidence, be predictive, logical, subject to modification and limited to the natural world.

 

Indicator 2

Describe that scientists may disagree about explanations of phenomena, about interpretation of data or about the value of rival theories, but they do agree that questioning, response to criticism and open communication are integral to the process of science.

 

Indicator 3

Recognize that science is a systematic method of continuing investigation, based on observation, hypothesis testing, measurement, experimentation, and theory building, which leads to more adequate explanations of natural phenomena.

 

Lesson Summary:

 

This lesson allows students to critically analyze five different aspects of evolutionary theory. As new scientific data emerge, scientists’ understandings of the natural world may become enhanced, modified or even changed all together. Using library and Internet sources, groups of students will conduct background research for one of the aspects of evolution in preparation for a critical analysis discussion. Students also will listen to, and take notes on, their classmates' critical analyses of evolution theory.

 

Estimated Duration: Four to six hours

 

Commentary:

 

This lesson should be used midway or toward the end of a unit on evolution. This will allow students to “carry over” their knowledge of basic evolutionary concepts into this lesson. The strength of this lesson lies in having students research topics that interest them about evolutionary biology. Students are encouraged to consider the research and discuss their findings with fellow students.

 

Pre-Assessment:

 

·        The following items can be used to stimulate dialogue with the students.

·        Instruct students to copy the following items from the chalkboard in their science lab notebook.

1.      Describe anomalies and explain why they exist.

2.      Are there any benefits to exploring scientific anomalies?

3.      How do scientists make and test predictions?

4.      How do scientists critically analyze conflicting data?

5.      Define the following terms in your own words:

§         Theory

§         Critical analysis

§         Natural selection

§         Biological evolution

§         Macroevolution

§         Microevolution

·        Direct students to respond to the questions in their science notebook in as much detail as possible leaving space to record information from the ensuing dialogue to add to their notes.

 

Scoring Guidelines:

 

Collect pre-assessments and evaluate for indication of prior knowledge and/or misconception. Sample definitions for question five in the pre-assessment include, but are not limited to, the following:

·        Theory
A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

·        Critical analysis
The separation of an intellectual idea into its constituent parts for the purpose of a careful, exact evaluation and judgment about those parts and their interrelationships in making up a whole. (This definition combines the definition for critical and analysis.)

·        Natural selection
The principle that in a given environment, individuals having characteristics that aid survival will produce more offspring, and the proportion of individuals having such characteristics will increase with each succeeding generation.

·        Biological evolution
Changes in the genetic composition of a population through successive generations.

·        Macroevolution
Large-scale evolution occurring over geologic time that results in the formation of new taxonomic groups.

·        Microevolution
Evolution resulting from a succession of relatively small genetic variations that often cause the formation of new subspecies.

 

Post-Assessment:

 

 

Instructional Procedures:

Instructional Tip:

Scientists make a distinction between two areas of evolutionary theory. First, scientists consider mutation, natural selection, genetic drift and gene flow (immigration and emigration) as the processes that generate evolutionary changes in organisms and populations. Second, the theory of universal common descent describes the historical pattern of biological change. This theory maintains that all living forms have descended from earlier living forms and ultimately from a single common ancestor. Darwin envisioned the theory of universal common descent as a necessary result of evolutionary changes in organisms and populations, and represented it in his branching tree of life. Students will investigate and analyze these two areas of evolutionary theory in this lesson.

 

In addition to the distinctions between different areas of evolutionary theory, scientists also find it helpful to distinguish amounts of biological change or evolution. Microevolution refers to evolution resulting from a succession of relatively small genetic variations that often cause the formation of new subspecies. Macroevolution refers to large-scale evolution occurring over geologic time that results in the formation of new taxonomic groups. These terms are helpful distinctions in the course of analyzing evolutionary theory. These terms have appeared in OhioLink research databases, numerous Internet sites, and biology and evolution textbooks. Though “micro” and “macro” are prefixes, it is quite clear that the scientific community recognizes and acknowledges the distinction between the words. To help ensure academic clarity, this lesson distinguishes between microevolution and macroevolution. Teachers may need to provide support to students to help them understand this distinction throughout the lesson.

 

Student Engagement

 

  1. Write the following statement on the chalkboard or overhead:
    Anomalies are observations in science that depart from the general consensus of the time. Many anomalies occur in science. Scientists create hypotheses to explain these anomalies and then carry out experiments to try to disprove their hypotheses. Disproven hypotheses are rejected and those that are not disproven are subjected to further testing.
  2. Ask students to think through the following science topics and discuss where anomalies led to the collection of data that further explained the phenomena and contributed to changing scientific understandings.

·        Spontaneous generation versus biogenesis
Several pieces of data could be used. One example is Francesco Redi’s observation that flies must contact meat in order for maggots to appear on the meat.

·        Geocentric versus Heliocentric
Several pieces of data could be used. One example is the observed phases of Venus.

  1. Ask students to cite additional areas where critical analysis is needed by the scientific community.

 

Teacher Presentation

  1. Present supporting and challenging information for five aspects of evolution found in Attachment A. This will give students background information concerning both supporting and challenging evidence. Students can use this information to focus their research.

 

Instructional Tip:

Alternative strategies for beginning this lesson could be to engage students in a Socratic discussion or a mini-lecture. See the Web site for student research at the Los Alamos National Laboratory for guidelines on the Socratic method. The Web address is listed in the Technology Connections section.

 

Student Research

  1. Form groups consisting of two to four students. Assign each group a number to help monitor their activities and assignments during the lesson.
  2. Allow the groups to pick (or assign) one of the five aspects of evolutionary theory. Assign two groups to research each aspect. The aspects are:

Aspect 1: Homology (anatomical and molecular)

Aspect 2: Fossil Record

Aspect 3: Anti-Biotic Resistance

Aspect 4: Peppered Moths

Aspect 5: Endosymbiosis

 

  1. Distribute Attachment B, Investigative Worksheet, to help guide research. Allow time for the two groups assigned the same aspect to research their topic by answering questions on the Investigative Worksheet. Have groups use the worksheet as a guide to help them research supporting and challenging data on their particular aspect of evolution. The worksheet will help students organize their ideas and facilitate their critical analysis.

 

Instructional Tip:

Attachment B, Investigative Worksheet, has questions that can be applied to all five aspects. This will help students become familiar with the data, and therefore be able to critically analyze the evidence for either the supporting side or the challenging side. As they complete the worksheet, the group members may all work together on each question, or divide the questions among themselves and then share their findings as a group.

 

  1. After the groups have completed their research, collect the Investigative Worksheets and review them. Return the worksheet to them prior to the next step of the instructional procedures; the critical analysis activity. The Investigative Worksheet is a formative assessment which will enable the teacher to check the student work and if necessary, assist in any way to help ensure student success on his or her critical analysis activity.

Critical Analysis Activity

  1. Allow the students to spend time researching and preparing for the critical analysis activity on both the supporting and challenging information. Prior to the activity, randomly determine which of the two groups will present supporting information and which will present challenging information. You may have groups draw cards to help objectively determine if they will research the supporting or challenging information.

 

Instructional Tip:

Encourage all students to participate in the critical analysis activity because the experience will be a learning opportunity. Be prepared, however, to distribute alternate assignments to students who do not want to participate.

 

  1. Hand out Attachment C, Critical Analysis Rubric, to help students understand the materials they need to prepare and how they should conduct their presentations.
  2. Ask each group to write out their introduction, outline their presentations and write their conclusions. Have students practice their presentations to be sure that they are concise.
  3. Have two pairs of students address each aspect. Have one group present the data that support an aspect and the other group present the data that challenge the aspect. Flip a coin to decide which group begins the critical analysis activity. Instruct each side to present its research. The teacher will serve as facilitator to assure that the groups remain on task and on time. There are no winners or losers in this critical analysis activity. This is a sharing of the results of their research concerning evolution.
  4. Encourage students to actively participate as they critically analyze their assigned aspect. To ensure that they remain engaged as they watch and listen to the other groups, distribute copies of Attachment D, Critical Analysis Worksheet, and have them take notes. At the conclusion of the lesson, this worksheet will be turned in for a grade.  
  5. Use Attachment C, Critical Analysis Rubric, to evaluate each group's presentation.
  6. Proceed to the post-assessment to evaluate students' understanding.

 

Differentiated Instructional Support:

Instruction is differentiated according to learner needs, to help all learners either meet the intent of the specified indicator(s) or, if the indicator is already met, to advance beyond the specified indicator(s).

 

 

Extension:

Have students consider other aspects of evolutionary biology that are critically analyzed by scientists. Possible topics include:

 

 

 

Interdisciplinary Connections:

Social Studies Skills and Methods Standard

 

 

Benchmark A

Evaluate the reliability and credibility of sources.

Indicator 1

Determine the credibility of sources by considering the following:

a.       The qualifications and reputation of the writer;

b.      Agreement with other credible sources;

c.       Recognition of stereotypes;

d.      Accuracy and consistency of sources;

e.       The circumstances in which the author prepared the source.

 

 

 

English Language Arts Research Standard

 

 

Benchmark B

Evaluate the usefulness and credibility of data and sources.

Indicator 3

Determine the accuracy of sources and the credibility of the author by analyzing the sources’ validity (e.g., authority, accuracy, objectivity, publication date and coverage, etc.).

Benchmark C

Organize information from various resources and select appropriate sources to support central ideas, concepts and themes.

Indicator 2

Identify appropriate sources and gather relevant information from multiple sources (e.g., school library catalogs, online databases, electronic resources and Internet-based resources).

Indicator 4

Evaluate and systematically organize important information, and select appropriate sources to support central ideas, concepts and themes.

 

 

Materials and Resources:

The inclusion of a specific resource in any lesson formulated by the Ohio Department of Education should not be interpreted as an endorsement of that particular resource, or any of its contents, by the Ohio Department of Education. The Ohio Department of Education does not endorse any particular resource. The Web addresses listed are for a given site’s main page, therefore, it may be necessary to search within that site to find the specific information required for a given lesson. Please note that information published on the Internet changes over time, therefore the links provided may no longer contain the specific information related to a given lesson. Teachers are advised to preview all sites before using them with students.

 

For the teacher: attachments, resource materials such as the Internet, World Wide Web, library resources

For the student: attachments, resource materials such as the Internet, World Wide Web, library resources

 

Vocabulary:

 

 

Technology Connections:

 

Research Connections:

Marzano, R. et al. Classroom Instruction that Works: Research-Based Strategies for Increasing Student Achievement. Alexandria: Associat ion for Supervision and Curriculum Development, 2001.

 

 

General Tips:

 

 

1.      Ayala, Francisco, "The Mechanisms of Evolution." Scientific American, 239:3 (1978): 56-69.

  1. Brickhouse, Nancy. "Diversity of Students’ Views about Evidence, Theory." Journal of Research in Science Teaching. 37:4 (2000).
  2. Carroll, Robert L. (1997/98). “Limits to Knowledge of the Fossil Record”. Zoology. 100 (1997/98): 221-231.
  3. Carroll, Robert L. “Towards a New Evolutionary Synthesis.” Trends in Ecology and Evolution 15 (2000): 27-32.
  4. Cherfas, J. "Exploring the Myth of the Melanic Moth." New Scientist. (1986): 25.
  5. Chinn, Clark. "An Empirical Test of a Taxonomy of Responses to Anomalous Data in Science." Journal of Research in Science Teaching. 35:6 (1998).
  6. Chinn, Clark. "The Role of Anomalous Data in Knowledge Acquisition: A Theoretical Framework and Implications for Science Instruction." Review of Educational Research. 63:1 (1993): 1-49.
  7. Darwin, Charles. On the Origin of Species: A Facsimile of the First Edition. Cambridge: Harvard UP, 1975.
  8. Denton, Michael. Evolution: A Theory in Crisis. Bethesda: Adler and Adler, 1986.
  9. Doolittle, W. Ford “Uprooting the Tree of Life,” Scientific American, 282 (2000): 90-95.
  10. Erwin, Douglas. “Macroevolution is More Than Repeated Rounds of Microevolution,” Evolution & Development 2 (2000): 78-84.
  11. Erwin, Douglas. “Early Introduction of Major Morphological Innovations,” Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 38 (1994): 281-294.
  12. Evans, Margaret E. "The Emergence of Beliefs About the Origins of Species in School-Age Children." Merrill-Palmer Quarterly. 46:2 (2000): 221-253.
  13. Faust, David. The Limits of Scientific Reasoning. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 1984.
  14. Fitch, W., and E. Margoliash, "Construction of Phylogenetic Trees." Science 155 (1967): 281.
  15. Gilbert, Scott F., et al. “Resynthesizing Evolutionary and Developmental Biology,” Journal of Developmental Biology 173 (1996): 357-372.
  16. Jeffares, D. “Relics from the RNA World.” Journal of Molecular Evolution 46 (1998): 18-36.
  17. Lee, Michael. “Molecular Phylogenies become Functional” Trends in Ecology and Evolution. 14 (1999): 177-178.
  18. Levinton, Jeffrey S. “The Big Bang of Animal Evolution.” Scientific American 267 (1992): 84-91.
  19. Lewin, Roger. "Evolutionary Theory Under Fire." Science. 210 (1980): 883.
  20. Mahoney, Michael. "Publication Prejudices: an Experimental Study of Confirmatory Bias in the Peer Review System." Cognitive Therapy and Research. 1:2 (1977): 161-175.
  21. Margoulis, L., and D. Sagan. "Bacterial Bedfellows." Natural History 96 (1987): 26-33.
  22. Martin W., and M. Muller. "The Hydrogen Hypothesis for the First Eukaryote." Nature 392 (1998): 37-41.
  23. Mikkola, K. "On the Selective Forces Acting in the Industrial Melanism of Biston oligia Moths." Biological Journal of the Linnean Society 21 (1984): 409-421.
  24. Mynatt, Clifford. "Confirmation Bias in a Simulated Research Environment: An Experimental Study of Scientific Inference." Quarterly Journal of ExperimentalPsychology. 29 (1977): 85-95.
  25. National Academy of Science. Teaching About Evolution and the Nature of Science. Washington: National Academy Press, 1998.
  26. National Academy of Science. National Science Education Standards. Washington, National Academy Press, 1996.
  27. Pennisi, E. “Direct descendants from an RNA world.” Science 280 (1998): 673.
  28. Philippe, Herve, and Patrick Forterre. “The Rooting of the Universal Tree of Life is Not Reliable.” Journal of Molecular Evolution 49 (1999): 509-523.
  29. Plous, Scott. The Psychology of Judgment and Decision Making. New York: McGraw Hill, 1993.
  30. Samarapungavan, Ala. "Children’s judgment in theory choice tasks: Scientific rationality in childhood. Cognition. 45 (1992): 1-32.
  31. Shubin, Neil H. and Charles R. Marshall. “Fossils, Genes, and the Origin of Novelty.” Deep Time (2000): 324-340.
  32. Smith, John M., and Eörs Szathmáry. The Major Transitions in Evolution. Oxford: Oxford UP, 1995.
  33. Smith, Mike U. "Counterpoint: Belief, Understanding, and Teaching of Evolution." Journal of Research in Science Teaching. 3:5 (1994): 591-597.
  34. Thagard, Paul. Mind, Society, and the Growth of Knowledge. Philosophy of Science. (1994): 61.
  35. Thomson , Keith S. “Macroevolution: The Morphological Problem,” American Zoologist 32 (1992): 106-112.
  36. Thomson, Keith S. "Marginalia: The Meanings of Evolution.” American Scientist. 70. (1982): 529-531.

 

Attachments:

Attachment A, Five Aspects of Evolution

Attachment B, Investigative Worksheet

 

Attachment A

Five Aspects of Evolution

 

Aspect 1: Homology

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: Different animals have very similar anatomical and genetic structures. This suggests that these animals share a common ancestor from which they inherited the genes to build these anatomical structures. Evolutionary biologists call similarities that are due to common ancestry “homologies.” For example, the genes that produce hemoglobin molecules (an oxygen carrying protein) in chimps and humans are at least 98% identical in sequence. As another example, bats, humans, horses, porpoises and moles all share a forelimb that has the same pattern of bone structure and organization. The hemoglobin molecule and the “pentadactyl limb” provide evidence for common ancestors. Also, the genetic code is universal, suggesting that a common ancestor is the source.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: Some scientists think similarities in anatomical and genetic structure reflect similar functional needs in different animals, not common ancestry. The nucleotide sequence of hemoglobin DNA is very similar between chimps and humans, but this may be because they provide the same function for both animals. Also, if similar anatomical structures really are the result of a shared evolutionary ancestry, then similar anatomical structures should be produced by related genes and patterns of embryological development. However, sometimes, similar anatomical structures in different animals are built from different genes and by different pathways of embryological development. Scientists can use these different anatomical structures and genes to build versions of Darwin family trees that will not match each other. This shows that diverse forms of life may have different ancestry.

 

Aspect 2: Fossil Record

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research. 

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: The fossil record shows an increase in the complexity of living forms from simple one-celled organisms, to the first simple plants and animals, to the diverse and complex organisms that live on Earth today. This pattern suggests that later forms evolved from earlier simple forms over long periods of geological time. Macroevolution is the large-scale evolution occurring over geologic time that results in the formation of new taxonomic groups. The slow transformations are reflected in transitional fossils such as Archaeopteryx (a reptile-like bird) and mammal-like reptiles. These transitional fossils bridge the gap from one species to another species and from one branch on the tree of life to another.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: Transitional fossils are rare in the fossil record. A growing number of scientists now question that Archaeopteryx and other transitional fossils really are transitional forms. The fossil record as a whole shows that major evolutionary changes took place suddenly over brief periods of time followed by longer periods of “stasis” during which no significant change in form or transitional organisms appeared (Punctuated Equilibria). The “Cambrian explosion” of animal phyla is the best known, but not the only example, of the sudden appearance of new biological forms in the fossil record.

 

Aspect 3: Antibiotic Resistance

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: The number of strains of antibiotic resistant bacteria, such as of Staphylococcus aureus, have significantly increased in number over time. Antibiotics used by patients to eliminate disease-causing bacterial organisms have facilitated this change. When some bacteria acquire a mutation that allows them to survive in the presence of antibiotics, they begin to survive in greater numbers than those that do not have this mutation-induced resistance. This shows how environmental changes and natural selection can produce significant changes in populations and species over time.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: The increase in the number of antibiotic resistant bacterial strains demonstrates the power of natural selection to produce small but limited changes in populations and species. It does not demonstrate the ability of natural selection to produce new forms of life. Although new strains of Staphylococcus aureus have evolved, the speciation of bacteria (prokaryotes) has not been observed, and neither has the evolution of bacteria into more complex eukaryotes. Thus, the phenomenon of antibiotic resistance demonstrates microevolution.

 

Aspect 4: Peppered Moths (Biston betularia)

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: During the industrial revolution in England, more soot was released into the air. As a result, the tree trunks in the woodlands grew darker in color. This environmental change also produced a change in the population of English peppered moths (scientifically known as Biston betularia). Studies during the 1950s have suggested a reason for this change. It was observed that light-colored moths resting on dark-colored tree trunks were readily eaten by birds. They had become more visible by their predators compared to their dark-colored counterparts. This different exposure to predation explained why the light-colored moths died with greater frequency when pollution darkened the forest. It also explained why light-colored moths later made a “comeback” when air quality improved in England. This whole situation demonstrates how the process of natural selection can change the features of a population over time.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: English peppered moths show that environmental changes can produce microevolutionary changes within a population. They do not show that natural selection can produce major new features or forms of life, or a new species for that matter—i.e., macroevolutionary changes. From the beginning of the industrial revolution, English peppered moths came in both light and dark varieties. After the pollution decreased, dark and light varieties still existed. All that changed during this time was the relative proportion of the two traits within the population. No new features and no new species emerged. In addition, recent scientific articles have questioned the factual basis of the study performed during the 1950s. Scientists have learned that peppered moths do not actually rest on tree trunks. This has raised questions about whether color changes in the moth population were actually caused by differences in exposure to predatory birds.

 

Aspect 5: Endosymbiosis (formation of cellular organelles)

Citations in the General Tips Section may provide a starting point for student research. It is suggested that students employ additional resources in their research.

 

Brief Supporting Sample Answer: Complex eukaryotic cells contain organelles such as chloroplasts and mitochondria. These organelles have their own DNA. This suggests that bacterial cells may have become established in cells that were ancestral to eukaryotes. These smaller cells existed for a time in a symbiotic relationship within the larger cell. Later, the smaller cell evolved into separate organelles within the eukaryotic ancestors. The separate organelles, chloroplast and mitochondria, within modern eukaryotes stand as evidence of this evolutionary change.

 

Brief Challenging Sample Answer: Laboratory tests have not yet demonstrated that small bacteria (prokaryotic cells) can change into separate organelles, such as mitochondria and chloroplasts within larger bacterial cells. When smaller bacterial cells (prokaryotes) are absorbed by larger bacterial cells, they are usually destroyed by digestion. Although some bacterial cells (prokaryotes) can occasionally live in eukaryotes, scientists have not observed these cells changing into organelles such as mitochondria or chloroplasts.

 

 

Attachment B

Investigative Worksheet

 

This activity will help you to prepare for the critical analysis activity. Complete the following table by addressing the following points when you record supporting and challenging data for one aspect of evolution. Record your responses on the appropriate space on the chart.

 

 


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KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; intelligentdesign; ohio; scienceeducation
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To: Elsie; Virginia-American; Junior; js1138
Acts 17:26
  From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
 
 
Romans 5:12
  Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
 
 
Romans 5:15-19
15.  But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
 16.  Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
 17.  For if, by the trespass of the one man,death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
 18.  Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
 19.  For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Pretty much throws Theistic evolution out the window, and every other form of evolution for that matter.

Good work with the instruction. More please!

661 posted on 03/18/2004 8:25:18 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical!)
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To: js1138
I don't believe any operational definition of "design" exists.

What to do. What to do. Shall we make it our aim to come up with one? Are you interested, or is it so impossible that we should not even try?

By "operational" I assume you mean a definition that can be fit into the process of scientific testing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

662 posted on 03/18/2004 8:29:12 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Actually I'd like to get paid for the work of producing a new molecule without regard for either intelligence or design. Job security is what it's all about.

Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

663 posted on 03/18/2004 8:29:49 PM PST by balrog666 (Common sense ain't common.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
or is it so impossible that we should not even try?

It must be difficult, because the most scientifically credentialed proponents have been unable to come up with one.

664 posted on 03/18/2004 8:41:56 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
Here's another question for ya:

Can intelligence exist without having some attribute of design?

Take the question on face value, please. Try to think about it as if your little brother were asking you and not the boarish oaf on the other end of this keyboard.

665 posted on 03/18/2004 8:43:00 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: balrog666
I have a couple of dogs that appear to be devoid of intelligence or design. I'd say their creation was a random event.
666 posted on 03/18/2004 8:43:33 PM PST by js1138
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To: balrog666
Have you been sneaking a taste or three of my meds?
667 posted on 03/18/2004 8:48:38 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Amelia
Embarazada for example? Why does Babelfish give "embarazado"?
668 posted on 03/18/2004 8:48:52 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Why not?
669 posted on 03/18/2004 8:48:58 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
Because clear, friendly thinking is requested at this time.
670 posted on 03/18/2004 9:10:47 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: js1138
Design detection programs.

Have you seen the genetically modified fish that glow in the dark? How would you detect ID in those fish? If you knew nothing of them, would you attribute their makeup to RM/NS?

671 posted on 03/18/2004 10:00:28 PM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo
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To: RightWingNilla
This thread needs to be put out of its misery.
672 posted on 03/19/2004 2:52:34 AM PST by PatrickHenry (A compassionate evolutionist.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Because clear, friendly thinking is requested at this time.

I'm sorry, you seem to be either incapable of or unwilling to endulge in clear thinking.

I'm quite tired of the circular "logic" and twisting of words you're engaging in here.

You're not trying to learn anything, you're trying to press an agenda.

You've shown yourself unwilling to try to learn anything on your own.

You've admitted you have no knowledge of science, yet you're trying to engage in scientific debate.

If you were a child, I'd have a bit more patience, although I don't come here to have discussions with children.

An adult debating like a child tries my patience severely, and I think I've had enough of this "discussion".

673 posted on 03/19/2004 3:33:19 AM PST by Amelia
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
Evolution has been debunked and is now considered by all but the most intransigent as a dead religion.

Really? Do you have any actual evidence to back up this claim, or are you simply parroting something you heard some creationist spout, and being unable to actually reason things out for yourself you simply repeat this comforting mantra?

Please note, there has been no published original research on ID or creationism. By "orinal" I mean a paper wherein research is presented in such detail as to be replicable by other researchers to test the writer's conclusions. Evolutionary biologists publish such work all the time and other evolutionary biologists test the former's efforts constantly looking for flaws. Creationists, on the other hand, parse scientific literature looking for something that can be taken out of context in an effort to bolster their particular views (even if the result is 180º out from the original intent of the writer). This is how creationists do "research." Nothing original, just scavenging the scraps of scientific work real scientists do.

So, unless you can put your money where your mouth is, Old Cracker, you really don't have a dog in this hunt.

674 posted on 03/19/2004 3:58:04 AM PST by Junior (No animals were harmed in the making of this post)
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To: Amelia
At least he isn't posting in Blue. Also, he still seems moderately sane, unlike another creationist poster on this thread.
675 posted on 03/19/2004 4:00:43 AM PST by Junior (No animals were harmed in the making of this post)
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To: Amelia; js1138
Since you are apparently unwilling to offer up a working definition of "intelligence" or "design" so we can see how these apply to a "hypothesis" I will go ahead and do it myself.

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in·tel·li·gence   Audio pronunciation of "intelligence" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (n-tl-jns)
n.
    1. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.
    2. The faculty of thought and reason.
    3. Superior powers of mind. See Synonyms at mind.
  1. An intelligent, incorporeal being, especially an angel.
  2. Information; news. See Synonyms at news.
    1. Secret information, especially about an actual or potential enemy.
    2. An agency, staff, or office employed in gathering such information.
    3. Espionage agents, organizations, and activities considered as a group: “Intelligence is nothing if not an institutionalized black market in perishable commodities” (John le Carré).

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de·sign   Audio pronunciation of "design" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (d-zn)
v. de·signed, de·sign·ing, de·signs
v. tr.
    1. To conceive or fashion in the mind; invent: design a good excuse for not attending the conference.
    2. To formulate a plan for; devise: designed a marketing strategy for the new product.
  1. To plan out in systematic, usually graphic form: design a building; design a computer program.
  2. To create or contrive for a particular purpose or effect: a game designed to appeal to all ages.
  3. To have as a goal or purpose; intend.
  4. To create or execute in an artistic or highly skilled manner.

v. intr.
  1. To make or execute plans.
  2. To have a goal or purpose in mind.
  3. To create designs.

n.
    1. A drawing or sketch.
    2. A graphic representation, especially a detailed plan for construction or manufacture.
  1. The purposeful or inventive arrangement of parts or details: the aerodynamic design of an automobile; furniture of simple but elegant design.
  2. The art or practice of designing or making designs.
  3. Something designed, especially a decorative or an artistic work.
  4. An ornamental pattern. See Synonyms at figure.
  5. A basic scheme or pattern that affects and controls function or development: the overall design of an epic poem.
  6. A plan; a project. See Synonyms at plan.
    1. A reasoned purpose; an intent: It was her design to set up practice on her own as soon as she was qualified.
    2. Deliberate intention: He became a photographer more by accident than by design.

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With these definitions in mind it is clear that a hypothesis cannot even exist without both intelligence and design.

676 posted on 03/19/2004 4:33:49 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Amelia
A more beautiful meltdown could not have been hypothesized.
677 posted on 03/19/2004 5:01:50 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: BMCDA
Uhh? Are you serious or is this just a joke?

Both, actually; with a bit of mockery tossed in as well.

678 posted on 03/19/2004 5:08:35 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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To: js1138
In short, you are not allowed to use scientific reasoning to prove or disprove the existence of God.

Says WHO?

679 posted on 03/19/2004 5:09:47 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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To: js1138
In five minutes I was able to find half a dozen articles backing up my interpretation of that scripture.

And THAT makes it right??

680 posted on 03/19/2004 5:10:59 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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