If pigs could fly,,,,,
They do when enuff folks get behind and push.
Posted on 03/04/2004 10:31:36 PM PST by scripter
An effort to do away with federal income tax and replace it with a national consumption tax is gaining steam, as activists strive to get at least 100 members of the House of Representatives on board by Independence Day.
"We think we'll be at 100 co-sponsors by July 4," Tom Wright, executive director of Americans for Fair Taxation, told WND.
Wright noted the House bill, H.R. 25, added its latest co-sponsor this week – Republican Rep. Barbara Cubin of Wyoming – bringing the total to 44.
"We're working with our grass-roots people across the country" to get to the goal, Wright said. H.R. 25, the Fair Tax Act, is sponsored by Rep. John Linder, R-Ga., who has sponsored similar legislation for the last several years. The latest version of the bill was introduced Jan. 7, 2003.
"The current federal income tax system is broken. Patching up the existing code is pointless. It's time for a fresh approach, a fair approach. It's time for the FairTax," says the group's website.
"From its humble beginnings, the income tax has grown like a cancer by taxing our hard work and discouraging savings and investment."
H.R. 25 would eliminate the federal income tax and replace it with a 23 percent consumption tax paid by the end user. That means business-to-business purchases for the production of goods and services would not be taxed. The organization estimates consumer prices will drop by an estimated 20-30 percent as a result of the change.
The group's website describes how the bill's rebate function works. It assures that those living in poverty would not pay any tax.
"Under the FairTax, no American will pay taxes on necessities. The rebate will be equivalent to the tax paid on essential goods and services. The rebate will be mailed before the tax is actually paid [and] will be paid in equal installments at the beginning of the month. The size of the monthly rebate will be determined by the federal poverty level for a particular household size."
Wright touted the support of the American Farm Bureau. The organization has been educating its membership on the bill, and many state chapters have given the bill legislative priority.
Dumping the income tax has become a campaign issue in many political races this year, Wright says.
"All over Texas, House candidates are supporting it," he said, mentioning races in other states as well.
Wright noted the bill's cause is helped every time Social Security reform is discussed, since, under the plan, the entitlement program would be supported by the consumption tax instead of what he calls the "regressive" Social Security tax.
Americans for Fair Taxation says the first year the plan goes into effect, revenue to the federal government would remain the same. From there, the group claims, revenue will grow due to increased economic activity.
H.R. 25 is pending in the House Ways and Means Committee and has not had a hearing. Once the sponsorship level grows to 100, however, Wright thinks Chairman Bill Thomas, R-Calif., will take action on the bill.
The bill's Senate version is S.1493, sponsored by Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., which was introduced in July.
WND columnist Neal Boortz is a supporter of the plan. In an August column, he addressed the issue of why the idea hasn't been enacted already.
"And just why hasn't it passed?" he wrote. "Because the idea is so bold that many politicians, while personally praising the concept, just assume it can't pass.
"It can pass, my friends. It can pass if the people of America learn the details and then let their elected officials know that they want some action."
Previous stories:
Income tax to end within few years?
National sales tax gains momentum
Group plans 'fair tax' convention
Congress to consider 'fair tax'
Should that be "ensures"?
A National Revenue Tariff uniformly applied on all imports would be vastly preferrable to the NST. Tariffs, the CONSTITUTIONAL tax.
The NRST is a national revenue duty and excise applied on all imports, so what's the problem?
Constitution for the United States of America:
- Article I Section 8: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises,
to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States;
but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; "
A LAW DICTIONARY
by John Bouvier, Revised Sixth Edition, 1856:
DUTIES. In its most enlarged sense, this word is nearly equivalent to taxes, embracing all impositions or charges levied on persons or things;A LAW DICTIONARY
by John Bouvier, Revised Sixth Edition, 1856:
EXCISES. This word is used to signify an inland imposition, paid sometimes upon the consumption of the commodity, and frequently upon the retail sale.
If pigs could fly,,,,,
They do when enuff folks get behind and push.
I see the cut and paste machine is still in full operation. LOL
Same question or remark, you figure the facts change from one day to the next or something?
Taxes of any kind = communism
No taxes = Anarchy.
James Madison, Elliots Debates Vol 3 p128:
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist #12:
Constitution for the United States of America:
Actually both of those are stalking horses that can be dismissed. First, the other countries are already imposing tariffs right and left right against the U.S. under the bleeping nose of the WTO. China for example, even after the latest bilateral treaty on automobiles with the U.S., has the 'right' to impose 10 times higher tariff than the U.S. duties on Chinese exports. This means they are now imposing a 25% tariff...which is down from the 70% tariff. Whoo Whooo! Such negotiating progress. Anyways, I just learned that China has been routinely imposing a 15% extra VAT that punishes non-Chinese-made semiconductors...right in the face of the WTO....daring them, and us, to do anything about it.
Anyways, neutral non-selective , i.e., general import duties for revenues are permitted by the WTO. What China is doing is "in-your face" trade war. And our Cato-Chickens run around like their heads are cut off....saying WE don't want to start a trade war! B'waaahahaa!
What we need to do is fire the McLellanite Cato-ists, and get in some real 'generals' who will fight this war.
Sir I never said it doesn't I am not going to hold my breath until this idea of fair taxes grabs these morons in washington by the short hairs. When I become pissed (the idea is slow to anger)and the rest of the working stiffs realize that our ruling class in this country are not for America then we will have real change one way or another.
it would not have the disadvantages of a tariff. Those are (1) it would invite retaliation by other countries, and (2) create WTO violations.
Actually both of those are stalking horses that can be dismissed.
There are just as good if not better reasons to not put control of the source of our national tax revenues into the hands of foriegn governments. National Defense being primary. Imagine relying on a tariff on Chinese or Franch products in a war.
"Suppose, as has been contended for, the federal power of taxation were to be confined to duties on imports, it is evident that the government, for want of being able to command other resources, would frequently be tempted to extend these duties to an injurious excess. There are persons who imagine that they can never be carried to too great a length; since the higher they are, the more it is alleged they will tend to discourage an extravagant consumption, to produce a favorable balance of trade, and to promote domestic manufactures. But all extremes are pernicious in various ways. Exorbitant duties on imported articles would beget a general spirit of smuggling; which is always prejudicial to the fair trader, and eventually to the revenue itself: they tend to render other classes of the community tributary, in an improper degree, to the manufacturing classes, to whom they give a premature monopoly of the markets; they sometimes force industry out of its more natural channels into others in which it flows with less advantage; and in the last place, they oppress the merchant, who is often obliged to pay them himself without any retribution from the consumer. When the demand is equal to the quantity of goods at market, the consumer generally pays the duty; but when the markets happen to be overstocked, a great proportion falls upon the merchant, and sometimes not only exhausts his profits, but breaks in upon his capital."
"The more intelligent adversaries of the new Constitution ...qualify ... by a distinction between what they call INTERNAL and EXTERNAL taxation. The former they would reserve to the State governments; the latter, which they explain into commercial imposts, or rather duties on imported articles, they declare themselves willing to concede to the federal head. This distinction, however, would violate the maxim of good sense and sound policy, which dictates that every POWER ought to be in proportion to its OBJECT; and would still leave the general government in a kind of tutelage to the State governments, inconsistent with every idea of vigor or efficiency. Who can pretend that commercial imposts are, or would be, alone equal to the present and future exigencies of the Union? Taking into the account the existing debt, foreign and domestic, upon any plan of extinguishment which a man moderately impressed with the importance of public justice and public credit could approve, in addition to the establishments which all parties will acknowledge to be necessary, we could not reasonably flatter ourselves, that this resource alone, upon the most improved scale, would even suffice for its present necessities.
You are missing the point. This is a proposed broad revenue tariff. It would not depend on China or India selling us stuff. It's anybody. And, historically, tariffs have generated more than we need for the Federal government's operations. In fact the biggest problem all through the late 1800's was the embarassing surplusses being run due to our tariffs....
The only reason I can see the prices of goods an service droping from this is if the tax paid employees is cut from their salary. Our take home pay will not change, but we will pay %5.00 more for "things".
Corporate income tax repealed, withit 65 cents for every tax dollar collected will be saved in cost of compliance.
All Payroll excises are repealed (employer half of FICA, to name the major one) accounting, reporting and remittence costs will dissappear as well.
See reply #40 for detailed verification. 20-25% of personal consumption are hidden burdens on price that are relieved with the repeal of all income and payroll taxes.
This is a proposed broad revenue tariff.
So is the NRST, every import would be fully taxed with a retail sales tax. Today, imports come in with VATs removed by the nations the come from. Putting our products at disadvantage to foreign goods.
Furthermore, our products have embedded tax cost that should not be their except that we impose income and payroll taxes on our companies. Those products are exported with those embedded taxes making them much less competitive in foreign markets.
With repeal of all income and payroll taxes, domestic product prices are relieved of 20-25% of the burden artificially pushing domestic businesses prices up in all markets.
With imposition of the NRST imported products sold in this nation will be burdened with the full federal tax that the escape from today.
The result our products become more competitive foriegn goods are fully taxed, a full leveling of the playing field and trade burdens truly equalized for the first time in a hundred years.
So your object is?
Yeah, that could happen.
They do when enuff folks get behind and push.
My old management professor (an amateur pilot) always liked to tell us that with enough thrust, you could get a brick to fly. So why not a pig, eh?
In fact the biggest problem all through the late 1800's was the embarassing surplusses being run due to our tariffs....
Sorry this is not the 1800's, we are no longer an agricultural based economy essentiall isolated from the world.
This is the year 21st century with all its complications and people's fixation on their bennies. Until the people of this nation change in fundament ways that encourage smaller government and an economy backtracking to 1800's living standards, you can forget "the embarassing surplusses being run due to our tariffs."
with enough thrust, you could get a brick to fly. So why not a pig, eh?
This is the spaceage is it not? Tie a rocket to its tail.
Ain't it neat to be out of that old agricultural economy, we can do neat stuff hi-tech now ;O)
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