Effort to dump income tax gains steam

WorldNetDaily ^ | March 5, 2004 | Ron Strom

[scripter]

One time ping.

[Paul C. Jesup]

If Bush got rid of the IRS, he could open the borders wide open and grant amensty to ALL illegal immigrants and he would still WIN by a land slide.

I wonder if anyone in the Federal Republican Party realizes that.

[FairOpinion]

The sooner, the better.

[scott7278]

I'm in.

[sixmil]

Good news, but don't be surprised if the compromise that makes this pass is that overall, the federal government will end up siphoning more money off the economy than it already does.

[Hostage]

I have supported an NST and abolishment of Income Tax for years now but I just saw a piece on Frontline that made me very angry at those who evade taxes and helped me to understand how and why the IRS and Congress have gone bonkers with the tax code .

One example is KPMG. KPMG was/is involved in selling bogus tax shelters to corporations and wealthy individuals that enable them to pay very little if not zero tax. The shelter schemes are so dubious and blatant that it is easy to see that they are criminal.

It opened my eyes as to why the tax code has become more and more complex. It is the result of chasing after these criminals who change their schemes from one year to the next. When they get caught, the penalties are miniscule compared to the fees KPMG takes in with the bogus shelters. The schemes become more and more byzantine and the tax code complexity increases in an effort to stop the abuses.

It's a losing battle from the IRS perspective because Congress will not simplify laws to crackdown on the tax deadbeats. Why? Because there are powerful lobbyists who tie up such legislation to ensure it never gets passed.

If these large tax evaders paid their fair share, the federal deficit would be wiped out. It is feasible to quantify the amount of tax evasion by examining the records of the big accounting firms. They are e.g. KPMG the ones that are designing and selling the schemes. It is truly shameful what the big audit accounting firms like KPMG are doing. There appears to be a complete abandonment of ethics in the once of honorable profession of corporate auditing.

All that said, I still think the NST would be preferable as it would be easier to interpret and enforce than the current system.

[scripter]

The sooner, the better.

Indeed. I wish we could make it retroactive to 2001 - when I was making a lot more money!

[scripter]

I'm in.

I like it.

[scott7278]

A 23% tax on a major purchase like a new car or home could be a major burden, BUT they say that prices will also drop 20 - 30% because of the hidden income taxes that are already built into the products.

[Fledermaus]

What "hidden income taxes" are in automobiles? No income taxes are "hidden". Excise taxes, sales taxes, VAT taxes, etc., they are sometimes hidden.

But income taxes buying a car?

[scott7278]

What "hidden income taxes" are in automobiles? No income taxes are "hidden". Excise taxes, sales taxes, VAT taxes, etc., they are sometimes hidden.

But income taxes buying a car?

Don't shoot the messenger!  I'm simply relaying the information provided by the Thumbnail Sketch of the FairTax page.

 

I'm assuming they mean that the income taxes that the producer pays is added into the cost of the product.  So if there is an elimination of the Federal Income Tax, prices are predicted to drop 20 - 30% (according to the site).

 

I would need to see more evidence than one Harvard professor, because if prices did not drop as they say, the 23% would be very costly -- indeed, crippling.

[Fledermaus]

Wasn't shooting at you, just asking. Thanks for the info.

[scott7278]

I was just joking. I have trouble with the argument, to tell you the truth, because even if the automakers do add extra costs to an automobile, they just wind up paying more in taxes, do they not?

I would need to know exactly what they mean by "hidden income taxes" and how guaranteed prices are to drop. Could you imagine having a 23% tax added to the present cost of everything?

[scott7278]

I sent an e-mail to the FairTax people asking for clarification about the "hidden tax." I'm concerned about that 23% being added to products that don't drop in price as they predicted.

[goldstategop]

Bump! It was no less than Jimmy Carter who described the tax code as a disgrace to the human race. He's been wrong about many things but correct about the income tax. The sooner its dumped, the better off America will be as a nation.

[Fledermaus]

I figured you were joking.

Another thing the FairTax people don't bother to think about is that it's a Utopian idea that's just as good as any other if it was a perfect world, but we are Americans and have freedom and thus trillions of decisions a day happening.

Let's go back to the idea of cars. How exactly will that extra tax be marketed? Car sellers will NOT want to slap that tax on TOP of the price and all the other crap they sell you. So they'll play the game again...higher trade in, longer payment, lower interest rate, etc. All the tricks they use to keep the price the same.

So most Americans are now going to be financing a sales tax on automobiles. That puts them more in debt and they are now paying interest on a tax.

Bet the FairTax folks never thought of that one. So, of course, automobile purchases will have to be exempt or curtailed. The Michigan Congressional delegation will see to that.

As a matter of fact, most states with sales taxes cap the purchase of an automobile to keep their own state tax from keeping sales down. Car dealerships are everywhere and pay taxes too.

Now, I've just wasted cyberspace on just the concept of the NRST on cars. Want to start a thread to discuss the gazillion other products and services that every Congressman isn't going to want to influence?

The reply I get from that argument is usually, "read the Act...it's Iron Clad...it's Set in Stone...It has no deviations, etc." Right. Like that would make it out of a sub-committee much less get onto the floor for a vote.

I'd love a perfect world too. And I wish I could beam myself to the Enterprise and tell Mr. Scott to hit warp 9!

[Fenris6]

I still can't figure out why the Dems think that people who don't pay taxes should get a refund when the governemnt takes in too much money.

From now on, whenever my liberal friends pay for dinner (ahem!) I will demand half the change :)

[scott7278]

Everything you said is true, and I'll add this -- I don't trust the Federal Government to not slap an income tax on top of the NRST if it were to ever pass. They wouldn't do it at first, but I could easily see double taxation down the pike.

I am for the elimination of the income tax -- I just want to make sure that the alternative makes good economic sense and it's good for the people, not the government.

[CWOJackson]

I'm sure a President Kerry would make eliminating the income tax his first priority.