[phil_will1]

"In any case, even if the federal government tried to stop outsourcing, it cannot. We can put quotas and tariffs on goods that cross our borders, but it is impossible to stop people from importing software and data over the Internet."

This is the section of Bartlett's piece that struck a chord with me, primarily because I have been thinking the same thing. NAFTA and the recent trade agreements have been getting blamed, but it isn't clear to me that they have anything at all to do with the outsourcing trend.

[Blue Screen of Death]

Outsourced this comment on post yours is.

[supercat]

Someone please tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that income tax rates in this country play a major role in the outsourcing of services and production. The income and payroll taxes not only mean that employers have to spend more to put a certain number of dollars in their employees' pockets, but they also increase the cost of anything the employee would want to buy. If it weren't for the availability of tax shelters and outsourcing, money would be almost worthless since a very large portion of anything that got spent would get vacuumed up by the government.

Is there anything wrong in my thinking?

[jpsb]

No nation has ever gotten rich by forcing its citizens to pay more for domestic goods and services that could have been procured more cheaply abroad.

Incorrect, USA, 1776-1930's.

[Martin Tell]

A politician in New Jersey is trying to pass a law that all companies that outsource IT jobs cannot get State contracts. So something can be done to discourage outsourcing. I am not saying this is a good idea; I happen to agree that from an economic standpoint outsourcing is probably a good thing.

Before everyone jumps on me, I am involved in IT myself and my business has taken a huge (hugh) hit the past 3 years. I am trying to learn new skills (can anyone say health care industry?) rather than bashing foreigners, however.

BTW, this month's Wired has a pretty good article on the subject.

[moodyskeptic]

Interesting. Thanks for posting this reasonable tome.

Many of my peers are huffy about IT outsourcing, as if they are too important to be replaced.

In the 80s and 90s, it was the Revenge of the Nerds, the guys who could navigate around a computer took over the workplace. They made us pay for not choosing them for basketball.

But did they think that only white college educated Americans could work a PC? They looked down their noses at blue collar "NFL" Americans all these years. Now it's their skill that has been cheapened.


How'z it feel... geeks?

[Myrddin]

While in the short run, the transition was painful for Massachusetts textile workers, they soon found better jobs in new industries.

Writers on this topic keep spewing this comment. They fail to observe that the outsourced jobs are in the new industries. None of them has managed to point to what "new" industries are prepared to employ the 4,000 to 6,000 people who get dumped on the street each day. They were not making buggy whips. They were employed at the forefront of technology. Most have 4 year degrees and many years of experience.

[Alberta's Child]

Good point. If IBM moves their call centers overseas, is the U.S. going to assess a tariff on every toll-free call to a call center in India? If an insurance company moves their back office work overseas, is the U.S. going to assess a tariff on every internet data transfer?

[dirtydanusa]

Don't buy an HP printer or call HP for help if at all possible. My friend bought an HP deskjet printer and the CD was defective. So I went to the HP website and it even stated if "if you received an defective cd, call HP for assistance".

Called them a few times reluctant to give too information to the Indian voice at the other end. Each time I called, different voice, same Indian dialect. Finally, after giving up the information, the person asked to insert the CD in the drive and read the serial number. Almost joyfully, he responded "oh yes, that is a bad one, we'll have a new one sent in 24 hrs". Four days later, the disk arrived but still would not run properly but I was able to get the drivers off the disk. Funny thing, in big letters on the disk it said "Made in U.S.A."(...for now...).

[navyblue]

This should be an obvious question but I have not seen anyone ask this yet.

When they outsource all the jobs they can and bring in guest workers for all the jobs they cannot, who the hell is going to be paying the taxes to support this government?

I asked this question of a political science professor today and his answer was that nobody has the answer to that.

That being the case, what the hell are they doing this for if they don't know the consequences of their actions?

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

It is mostly because of the Internet and the fact that IT people know how to use it that they are getting attention disproportionate to their numbers.

Bruce Bartlett on the unfair advantage that unemployed IT types have over other unemployed Americans. The nerve. ;)

[The Red Zone]

Last week, Council of Economic Advisers Chairman N. Gregory Mankiw ran into a buzz saw.

Probably made in China too.

[phil_will1]

"In any case, even if the federal government tried to stop outsourcing, it cannot. We can put quotas and tariffs on goods that cross our borders, but it is impossible to stop people from importing software and data over the Internet."

In addition to the suggestion posted above that we levy a tariff on overseas LD charges, I heard another idea that would seem to be worthy of consideration. That would be to require written permission from the client/customer before sending any confidential information, such as medical or financial records outside the US. With the legitimate concerns over privacy and identity theft, that would seem to be a reasonable measure.

Comments, anyone?

[Outsourcing=Competition]

The outsourcing is sending cheaper services to be done for less money. The better stuff: R&D and design remains here in the States. The biggest whiners are those expecting handouts or jobs for life.

[A. Pole]

It is mostly because of the Internet and the fact that IT people know how to use it that they are getting attention disproportionate to their numbers.

Bad nasty engineers. They are too outspoken, too loud. Why don't they quietly go away like factory workers in the rust belt?

[ninenot]

It is called the specialization of labor, and it is the foundation for economic growth.

Actually, Brucie boy, it's called labor arbitrage, which has everything to do with profits and nothing whatsoever to do with "specialization."

Bartlett's argument fails: there is NO "special" labor which can be done only in China or India.

However, it IS done cheaper.

Let's call a spade a spade, Bruce.

[Protagoras]

Authoritarians are scared to death of letting people make their own arrangements for pursuits of industry and improvement. It reduces their power to manipulate others for their own benefit.

[SamAdams76]

For years now, in fact decades, we have been hearing the lament of jobs being shipped overseas. First it was auto factories, then sneaker factories and now IT-related work.

You would think, to hear them talk, that we'd have 50 million people living in cardboard boxes by now. But I just don't see it.

I realize that many people lost jobs but they are apparently finding new ones. And not necessarily low paid ones either. How do I know that? I just look around me. Restaurants and shopping centers are still jammed. On Friday or Saturday night, you can count on a one or two hour wait for a table at just about any restaurant in the Boston area. New, expensive cars are flying off the lots, making my car look like a junker. Houses are selling around here for $300,000 and up. If you aren't at the first Open House and you don't submit a bid close to or at the asking price, you lose out. Housing is very, very tight. Not something you'd expect to see if everybody was out of work or if everybody was working at Wal-Mart, as some would have us believe.

Can anybody explain the "disconnect" here between what I am observing and what the lamestream media and Democrats are telling us, regarding the "worst economy since the Depression"?

[harpseal]

Tariif's on internet data transfers van be collected vis the corporate income tax return with no real additional infrastructure.

[scan58]

*ping*

[Vermont Lt]

I just posted this on another thread, but I think it applies here as well:

Think about this the next time you bitch about outsourcing call center (service and support) jobs:

Are you calling for something inane, like the balance of your checkbook? Is it after normal business hours? Could you have found the answer some other way? (on line for example?)

Are you calling for product support before you even read the directions? Could you have figured it out some other way--like picking up the instructions?

Are you one of those people that cannot wait to find out of their Retirement, Social Security, or SSI deposit has made it into the bank? Are you afraid they are going to forget you this month? They aren't. The money will be there--just as it always is....and your phone call ain't gonna make a difference.

Are you calling in response to an advertisement on the TV that you absolutely must have right now? Or could you go online or to Walmart and get the same thing?

You see, the service jobs that are going overseas did not exist ten years ago. Our laziness and impatience with getting stuff now has driven companies to provide this "ultra service." That drives up costs.

I worked for a small local bank. We never had folks answering the phone. Then we started to provide that service to take the pressures off our deposit operations folks. Then we grew to provide service after normal hours. Then we expanded to new areas and took over other banks.

What started with 12 people is now nearly 400. What started with normal operating hours 9-5 is a 24/7/365 operation. And you know what--our customer base stopped keeping track of their checks, debits and credits. They expect us to watch thier stuff for them. By the time I left the company, they were outsourding nearly 3,000 lame phone calls a day--with more to come.

We couldnt hire folks to do the work because the hours sucked. The pay and benefits were good, but no one wanted to start working weekends and nights.

The nice little bank that started out helping people turned into a cold bureaucracy. All because we thought customers needed to be able to reach out and touch us. I hear they are exploring sending calls to Canada--because they sound "like us."

It sucks--but it is our own damn fault. There is a collection of funny stories about the idiot customers that called in at www.thefunnycustomer.com They were collected by a guy that worked in the same business with me.


So, in the end--think before you call. Solve your own problems. Read the F'in directions.