Scientists Discover Where Snakes Lived When They Evolved into Limbless Creatures

Penn State ^ | 30 January 2004 | press release

[AdmSmith]

The mystery of where Earth's first snakes lived as they were evolving into limbless creatures from their lizard ancestors has intrigued scientists for centuries. Now, the first study ever to analyze genes from all the living families of lizards has revealed that snakes made their debut on the land, not in the ocean. The discovery resolves a long-smoldering debate among biologists about whether snakes had a terrestrial or a marine origin roughly 150 million years ago--a debate rekindled recently by controversial research in favor of the marine hypothesis.

In a paper to be published in the 7 May 2004 issue of the Royal Society journal Biology Letters, Nicolas Vidal, a postdoctoral fellow, and S. Blair Hedges, a professor of biology at Penn State, describe how they put the two theories to the test. They collected the largest genetic data set for snakes and lizards ever used to address this question. Their collection includes two genes from 64 species representing all 19 families of living lizards and 17 of the 25 families of living snakes.

Genetic material from some of the lizards was difficult to obtain because some species live only on certain small islands or in remote parts of the world. "We felt it was important to analyze genes from all the lizard groups because almost every lizard family has been suggested as being the one most closely related to snakes. If we had failed to include genes from even one of the lizard families, we could have missed getting the right answer," Hedges explains.

"For the marine hypothesis to be correct, snakes must be the closest relative of the only lizards known to have lived in the ocean when snakes evolved--the giant, extinct mosasaur lizards," Vidal says. "While we can't analyze the genes of the extinct mosasaurs, we can use the genes of their closest living cousins, monitor lizards like the giant Komodo Dragon," he explains.

The team analyzed gene sequences from each of the species, using several statistical methods to determine how the species are related. "Although these genes have the same function in each species--and so, by definition, are the same gene--their structure in each species is slightly different because of mutations that have developed over time," Vidal explains. When the genetic comparisons were complete, Vidal and Hedges had a family tree showing the relationships of the species.

"Our results show clearly that snakes are not closely related to monitor lizards like the giant Komodo Dragon, which are the closest living relatives of the mosasaurs--the only known marine lizard living at the time that snakes evolved," Vidal says. "Because all the other lizards at that time lived on the land, our study provides strong evidence that snakes evolved on the land, not in the ocean."

The research suggests an answer to another long-debated question: why snakes lost their limbs. Their land-based lifestyle, including burrowing underground at least some of the time, may be the reason. "Having limbs is a real problem if you need to fit through small openings underground, as anybody who has tried exploring in caves knows," Hedges says. "Your body could fit through much smaller openings if you did not have the wide shoulders and pelvis that support your limbs." The researchers note that the burrowing lifestyle of many other species, including legless lizards, is correlated with the complete loss of limbs or the evolution of very small limbs.

This research was supported by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration Astrobiology Institute and the National Science Foundation.

[CyberCowboy777]

You will never see me call for the execution of the curious, even when it challenges my beliefs.

I fully support science and exploration, I just don't let the tip of the iceberg effect my faith. Kinda a neat thing about humans.

Nice talking with ya, I avoid these theads as they usually turn ugly, but this has been civil.

Keath.

[CyberCowboy777]

How do you balance Genesis and Macro Evolution?

Did God create man from the dust and breath life into him or not?

[Nataku X]

Although you were being sarcastic you'll get a serious answer--the slavery issue is a huge pet peeve of mine

There isn't a single nation out there who doesn't rely on slaves. We're not morally superior compared to the 1700s just because corporations own slaves instead of individuals and because they're offshore instead of in the country.

[whattajoke]

Did God create man from the dust and breath life into him or not?

Good question. The bible doesn't even make that clear.

Gen.1:25-27 "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and the cattle after their kind ... And God said, Let us make man ... So God created man in his own image."

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

[CyberCowboy777]

So what is your interpretation of this passage?

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

[Ichneumon]

Now either the Bible is the true word of God or it isn't.

Is it true that rabbits chew cud?

Is it true that bats are birds?

Is it true that goats which mate while looking at striped rods will produce striped offspring?

Is it true that "the whole earth was of one language" around 2400BC?

Is it true that the rain, winds, stars, sun, and moon enter through windows in the sky?

Is it true the sea is shut up with doors?

Is it true that ostriches do not attend to their eggs or young?

Is it true that the sun lives in a tabernacle, and "goes forth from the end of heaven"?

Is it true that the earth rests on "pillars"?

Is it true that there are cockatrices and unicorns and dragons?

Is it true that there can be a tree tall enough to be seen "from the end of all the earth", when the earth is spherical?

Is it true that stars are small enough to fall from the sky and then be "stamped upon"?

Is it true that God's promise to drive out the Jebusites and Canaanites succeeded?

Is it true that Solomon's kingdom lasted forever?

Is it true that Zedekiah "died in peace"?

Is it true that Tyrus was completely destroyed forever, and if so how did Jesus and Paul visit there later?

Is it true that the world ended within the lifetime of Jesus's apostles?

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

Perhaps the thread on snakes should be "scaled" down.

LOL !!!! I suppose you won't mind if I slither away and refrain from spewing any more venom, huh? ; *)

[VRWC_minion]

then surely God would not give us His revelation without a way to discern what He meant.

Let me try an analogy. Would all passages mean the same to you as a child as when you are an adult ? Can your understanding be true in both cases and still be different ?

[VRWC_minion]

I'll say.

If God were fair, we wouldn't be here.

[ZULU]

"How do you balance Genesis and Macro Evolution? "

I don't believe Genesis gives a litteral description of the creation of anything. It is a figurative description of how God created man - He did it Himself from the dust of the earth (i.e. a lower creature). The Bible is not and never was meant to be a scientific text. Its a religious and moral text.

Don't you people realize how foolish you make ALL Christians look when you defy facts and all logic and adhere to a totally litteral perspective of this subject?
Don't you realize that that symbolism and allegory runs throughout the Bible and that unless you realize that and attempt to reconcile what we know through science with scripture, scripture winds up looking questionable?

God gave us the Bible, but He also gave us a brain. We should use it instead of mindlessly chanting section and verse and attempting to simplify what is an obviously complex process.

The same logic you are propounding here was used by the Inquisition when Galileo came out with his heliocentric theory of the solar system.

Stone Age Shepherds couldn't understand evolution. Evolution was not germaine to the message of the Bible.
God explained to them creation in a manner they could understand.

Don't you get it??

[ZULU]

Suit yourself. And not all snakes are venomous. Most are not - at least as far as human beings are concerned.

[VRWC_minion]

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations

The bible also states that you must let them free if you strike them and that if they seek refuge from you from your neighbor that your neighbor is obligated to provide them asylum and a bed anywhere they want and provide them food. Oh yes, if you have no offspring they inherit the farm.

If you want to play by the rules you have to play by all of them.

[whattajoke]

So what is your interpretation of this passage?

Not to your liking, I'm sure!

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

An ancient middle eastern nomadic tribe, trying their best to account for their own existence and mortality, gathered up the best (or at least most oft-told) oral histories and put ink to papyrus. As they had no scientific method to fall back on, this story summed up their tribal myths neatly. I'm sure they were careful to note that the LORD God didn't use up all the dust near snake habitat, so as to make sure the local snakes didn't starve to death.

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

These same nomadic tribesmen, bored and quite frankly peeved that their LORD God stuck them in a godforsaken desert, dreamed of "Eden-like" worlds, full of lush vegetation, fruitful trees, and babbling brooks. Surely, men of their importance MUST have sprung from such a lovely mirage, and the Eden myth came to be. However, I have it on good authority that those nomadic sheepherders are a bit upset over the use of an apple as the symbolic forbidden fruit. As any good middle eastern sheepherder knows, apples don't grow there.

[VRWC_minion]

Oh yes, they find a way to say it is not literal and spend many words justifying that belief, but it still comes down to disputing what is written.

Did God or didn't God know where Adam was when he asked him where he was ? There is no way to assume that God didn't know where Adam was. It has to be a question in a metaphorical sense yet there is nothing in the text that warns the reader.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

Good grief. I was trying to end on a humorous note. Sheeeeesh......get a grip.

[ChefKeith]

Congress?

[CyberCowboy777]

you people? Can a Zebra change its strips? Can a jerk show respect?

Defy Facts? What Facts do you have on the pre Garden era? How long was Adam in the Garden once he was placed there? When did this one man live and for how before Eve was created? How long together before banned from the garden? What went on outside the Garden during that time. You seem to think you have some facts on a place that cannot be found, please share.


foolish? Yes - it is foolish to think that man in his limited understanding knows what is fact and what is fiction in regards to God and His Works.

Don't you get it, you are not so big as you think you are.

[VRWC_minion]

The window dressing created by creationists that Genesis refutes evolution.

Two points. It does say that God created all things. Personally, it doesn't tell me how, when or how long despite the reference to a word that is ussually translated as days.

Second, there is absolutely no way to intepret the scripture to indicate that man was created by evolution. Although the text gives no how, or how long when it comes to his creating man a very specific story is given when it comes to man.

However the rest of creation pans out, scripture clearly states Adam was created by God without evolution.

[VRWC_minion]

There isn't a single nation out there who doesn't rely on slaves.

Even one's with 401(k)'s.

[VRWC_minion]

An ancient middle eastern nomadic tribe, trying their best to account for their own existence and mortality

One would think they would have created a more user friendly God.