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Scientists Discover Where Snakes Lived When They Evolved into Limbless Creatures
Penn State ^ | 30 January 2004 | press release

Posted on 02/03/2004 2:37:14 PM PST by AdmSmith

The mystery of where Earth's first snakes lived as they were evolving into limbless creatures from their lizard ancestors has intrigued scientists for centuries. Now, the first study ever to analyze genes from all the living families of lizards has revealed that snakes made their debut on the land, not in the ocean. The discovery resolves a long-smoldering debate among biologists about whether snakes had a terrestrial or a marine origin roughly 150 million years ago--a debate rekindled recently by controversial research in favor of the marine hypothesis.

In a paper to be published in the 7 May 2004 issue of the Royal Society journal Biology Letters, Nicolas Vidal, a postdoctoral fellow, and S. Blair Hedges, a professor of biology at Penn State, describe how they put the two theories to the test. They collected the largest genetic data set for snakes and lizards ever used to address this question. Their collection includes two genes from 64 species representing all 19 families of living lizards and 17 of the 25 families of living snakes.

Genetic material from some of the lizards was difficult to obtain because some species live only on certain small islands or in remote parts of the world. "We felt it was important to analyze genes from all the lizard groups because almost every lizard family has been suggested as being the one most closely related to snakes. If we had failed to include genes from even one of the lizard families, we could have missed getting the right answer," Hedges explains.

"For the marine hypothesis to be correct, snakes must be the closest relative of the only lizards known to have lived in the ocean when snakes evolved--the giant, extinct mosasaur lizards," Vidal says. "While we can't analyze the genes of the extinct mosasaurs, we can use the genes of their closest living cousins, monitor lizards like the giant Komodo Dragon," he explains.

The team analyzed gene sequences from each of the species, using several statistical methods to determine how the species are related. "Although these genes have the same function in each species--and so, by definition, are the same gene--their structure in each species is slightly different because of mutations that have developed over time," Vidal explains. When the genetic comparisons were complete, Vidal and Hedges had a family tree showing the relationships of the species.

"Our results show clearly that snakes are not closely related to monitor lizards like the giant Komodo Dragon, which are the closest living relatives of the mosasaurs--the only known marine lizard living at the time that snakes evolved," Vidal says. "Because all the other lizards at that time lived on the land, our study provides strong evidence that snakes evolved on the land, not in the ocean."

The research suggests an answer to another long-debated question: why snakes lost their limbs. Their land-based lifestyle, including burrowing underground at least some of the time, may be the reason. "Having limbs is a real problem if you need to fit through small openings underground, as anybody who has tried exploring in caves knows," Hedges says. "Your body could fit through much smaller openings if you did not have the wide shoulders and pelvis that support your limbs." The researchers note that the burrowing lifestyle of many other species, including legless lizards, is correlated with the complete loss of limbs or the evolution of very small limbs.

This research was supported by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration Astrobiology Institute and the National Science Foundation.

(Excerpt) Read more at science.psu.edu ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; science
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To: Jeff Gordon
Hey, you are picking things apart and choosing things to believe that fit your observations.
241 posted on 02/04/2004 12:53:17 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
I do not Believe that God is shocked or angered by my errors of understanding or my limitations of knowledge and intellect.

Finally a point on which we agree. He understands our frailty and human faults. All He requires is that we believe that Jesus died for those faults and imperfections. He takes care of the rest.

242 posted on 02/04/2004 12:53:48 PM PST by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: Jeff Gordon
That is a tough one... (hey, what is it around here today? I'm usually the king of sarcastic bible references!)

I find latina women pretty hot, but I'm a big hockey fan. So I guess I'd take one of each. Thanks Big Guy!
243 posted on 02/04/2004 12:54:39 PM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: Jeff Gordon
Speaking of male and female: I just read that in the "Finding Nemo" scenerio, in which a clownfish mother is killed, the father would change sex, become the mother, and the kid would become his mate. I guess some folks were made male and female in the literal and boolean sense.
244 posted on 02/04/2004 1:00:54 PM PST by js1138
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
You really don't get it, do you? It is not "my" knowledge. It is truth that is available to anyone who cares to read it and understand it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

And I just find it so amusing that the "truth" available to anyone who seeks it with guidance of the Holy Spirit that you are offering differens from the "truth" available from other people who claim to have derived it from the exact same source.

You, on the other hand, are distracted by pride and the need for you to prove what is not within man's grasp or ability to prove.

How so? Be specific.
245 posted on 02/04/2004 1:01:47 PM PST by Dimensio (The only thing you feel when you take a human life is recoil. -- Frank "Earl" Jones)
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To: evets
"...Satan's 'reptilian agenda'?...."

Most definitely! LOL.

246 posted on 02/04/2004 1:04:19 PM PST by DoctorMichael (Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it.)
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To: AdmSmith
I swear that it must have been Washington, D.C.
247 posted on 02/04/2004 1:06:53 PM PST by appleton14
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To: Dimensio
It is hardly arguable that a person who interprets Genesis to be something other than the literal story of creation is denying what the Bible says right off the bat.

Oh yes, they find a way to say it is not literal and spend many words justifying that belief, but it still comes down to disputing what is written.

Now either the Bible is the true word of God or it isn't. It isn't a combination of both.

There are certain points of disagreement or interpretation that are valid because they are either unspoken or not exactly clear.

By the same token, much of it is clearly literal or clearly figurative and a simple understanding of the language in which the reader is reading doesn't leave a whole lot of interpretive freedom.

My reference to your needing proof was meant for the evolutionist or those who think that evolution and creation can be compatible. If you are not one of those, that doesn't apply to you.

248 posted on 02/04/2004 1:09:21 PM PST by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
The Bible is a religous text, not a geological or biological tome.

Even God would have a hard time explaining evolution, cosmology, stratigraphy, genetics, etc, to a tribe of stone age shepherds. He told them what it was necessary for them to know at the moment. He didn't unnecessarily digress or expand on what was his main message, and that was a religious one, not a scientific one.
249 posted on 02/04/2004 1:11:07 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR JOE MCCARTHY!!!)
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
You, on the other hand, are distracted by pride and the need for you to prove what is not within man's grasp or ability to prove.

Did God give you this amazing ability to read minds and divine people's "true" motives for their beliefs? Or are you pridefully presuming that if someone disagrees with you, it must be because they surrending to a deadly sin, and it can't possibly be for other reasons, like maybe they've given it a lot of thought and study and that's their considered opinion on the matter?

250 posted on 02/04/2004 1:11:47 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
You really don't get it, do you? It is not "my" knowledge. It is truth that is available to anyone who cares to read it and understand it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

That's just like the truth of Hank. It's not "my" knowledge, it's Hank's truth. Why? Because Hank says so.

I can't possibly take any personal responsibility for the decision of whether the information about Hank is completely true or not, so it's not "my" knowledge or conclusions at all, is it?

Um, or is it?

251 posted on 02/04/2004 1:15:10 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
By the same token, much of it is clearly literal or clearly figurative and a simple understanding of the language in which the reader is reading doesn't leave a whole lot of interpretive freedom.

So when Jesus is taken to the mountaintop for where he can see all the kingdoms of the earth -- this is literal or figurative? Why? Would your opinion be based on knowledge available to those who first heard this story?

252 posted on 02/04/2004 1:15:26 PM PST by js1138
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To: AdmSmith
I'm too sexy for my snake...

253 posted on 02/04/2004 1:16:09 PM PST by evets (tagline malfunction)
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To: ZULU
He didn't unnecessarily digress or expand on what was his main message, and that was a religious one, not a scientific one.

Gee, I haven't heard that one before. Quite creative (no pun intended).

Zulu, you seem as if you are not particularly settled with your beliefs and nothing I say is going to change that. I hope you straighten it all out eventually.

I am tired of repeating myself here and need to move along. I usually avoid these threads because they all end up the same way.

I suppose I fell into this because I have recently seen many blessings in my life and I felt like maybe I needed to spend some time defending God and what I believe His words to say.

I never had any delusions of softening the hearts of those who either don't believe in God at all or those that want to restrict Him to only attributes that can be explained by man.

I know that He understands that and it is really all that matters.

254 posted on 02/04/2004 1:18:58 PM PST by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: js1138
I concur.

Only I add that I have chosen to believe that in spite of my ignorance by the Grace of God am I saved from its consequences.
255 posted on 02/04/2004 1:19:58 PM PST by CyberCowboy777 (Only a foolish man would seek understanding only to reject paths still unexplored.)
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To: whattajoke
LOL!

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. - Not I shalt not kill.

God was not giving Himself the law.
256 posted on 02/04/2004 1:21:44 PM PST by CyberCowboy777 (Only a foolish man would seek understanding only to reject paths still unexplored.)
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To: AdmSmith
Memo to Vidal and Hedges: It was the GARDEN OF EDEN, numbnuts.
257 posted on 02/04/2004 1:22:45 PM PST by Ann Archy
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To: CyberCowboy777
Fine. But I do not believe that God requires us to stifle our curiosity about how things work, live in caves rather than invent housing, submit to disease rather than investigate biology, or believe things which, "by all indications," are not literally true.
258 posted on 02/04/2004 1:26:39 PM PST by js1138
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To: VRWC_minion
The window dressing created by creationists that Genesis refutes evolution.
259 posted on 02/04/2004 1:30:03 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR JOE MCCARTHY!!!)
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
"I suppose I fell into this because I have recently seen many blessings in my life and I felt like maybe I needed to spend some time defending God and what I believe His words to say"

God needs no defense. The reality of creation is His defense. I'm not attacking God, nor attacking the Bible, just disagreeing with a narrow and literal interpretation of portions of it.

But maybe your right. Perhaps the thread on snakes should be "scaled" down.
260 posted on 02/04/2004 1:32:57 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR JOE MCCARTHY!!!)
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