Candidates on the Issues: Immigration

Newsday ^ | Jan. 18, 2004 | AP

[FairOpinion]

Clark:" ensure that undocumented workers have a way to eventually earn their citizenship."

Dean: "We need earned legalization for undocumented immigrants"

Edwards:"...so there is a clear road map to legalization and citizenship for undocumented immigrants"

Gephardt: "My Earned Legalization and Family Unification Act of 2002"...

Kerry: "I support an earned legalization proposal"

Lieberman: "I will create a new one-time earned legalization status...create a work visa program"

[WOSG]

"I am not going to vote to affirm open borders and out-of-control spending just because the man loves Jesus and has an "R" by his name. Can't do it, sorry."

Ah, I see. You suffer under the delusion that only a President who agrees with you 100% is a suitable candidate for voting. It's a tall order to expect that out of a man who leads a country of 290 million.

I for one know that my future vote for Bush *doesnt* affirm any "open borders" or out-of-control spending. I've sent letters to my Senator and president@whitehouse.gov making that plain!

IMHO that is *far* more effective than voting for a 1% candidate.

[WOSG]

True believers afraid of big tents, we have a candidate for y'all:

Rev. Jack Fellure previously registered with the FEC as a Presidential candidate in 1992, 1996 and 2000. Days after the 2000 election -- but before the winner was known -- Fellure filed FEC paperwork to run again in 2004. Fellure believes that President George H.W. Bush was responsible for fanning "the flames of international, Satanic, Marxist socialism to the exclusion of our national sovereignty." Further, Fellure said that President Clinton subsequently "shifted into overdrive the socialistic, Marxist New World Order agenda." He says our country is "being destroyed by atheists, Marxists, liberals, queers, liars, draft-dodgers, flag-burners, dope addicts, sex perverts and anti-Christians." Fellure, clearly, does not buy into the whole "Big Tent" concept of the GOP. In 1992, Fellure qualified for the NH primary ballot and finished in 24th place (36 votes).

[WOSG]

Texasforver, it is in a separate proposal which has been given 'trial balloon" status and which Bush admin agreed to support when visiting Fox of Mexico. Giving soc sec benefits to illegal immigrants on the basis of the soc sec taxes they paid under false IDs is a bad idea ... If you commit documentation fraud you should not get the Govt benefits from that fraudulent ID. It should be forfeited.

To support this "totalization" is to encourage further illegal immigration. See here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1059957/posts

[WOSG]

"Uh, they've paid probably as much INTO Soc Sec over the last 20 years and we have agreements with many countries that allow workers that pay into the system to get benefits."

Actually this is a myth. In general, and especially the low-wage earners, the taxes they pay in is miniscule and does NOT cover the social benefit costs that they take out.
Think about it: An illegal worker might be here for only 20 years, unlike a citizen here for 40 years before they retire. The illegal worker may work many jobs cash before finding one that actually has withholding. And then, if its at low rate of pay, the contribution is small. So the illegal alien worker puts in a fraction of the contribution of a US citizen worker - yet at 65 will get nearly the same benefit.

good plan - not!

Immigrants (legal and illegal) use welfare and other social services at HIGHER rates than the rest of the population. The cost nets out NEGATIVE for the 8-10 illegal immigrants.
One reason while Cali is going bankrupt (that plus having a Dem legislature).

[WOSG]

"ALL workers must pay into social security for 40 quarters, 10 years before they are eligible for benefits. "

True, but most US working citizens pay in for an average of *40 YEARS*. Getting something out after 10 years is almost being a free rider compared to that.

[34512a]

I prefer Dean because he is an outsider. And I'm sure a Dean presidency would revitalize conservatives in Congress and in general.

[nopardons]

That's funny and so spot on. :-)

[nopardons]

That third party managed an overthrow in what was a blink of an eye. It hasn't been redone since and as far as the GOP is concerned, it isn't going to happen in our life time!

[k2blader]

? Why should I care ?

I'm not voting for any of the Democrats.

[nopardons]

Gee, smart-mouth, why don't YOU buy a whole bunch of clues and stop embarrassing yourself so badly ? ;^)

[nopardons]

Politics is most certainly NOT your forte, nor an area of expertise for you.

Dean ... why not Hillary then ? Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.

[34512a]

Hillary would be even better. We need to revitalize conservatism. That isn't going to happen with 4 more years of Bush.

[Nephi]

Well, at least you moderates are consistently anti-conservative. I remember you attacking conservatives for supporting McClintock.

While the conservative gubernatorial candidate lost, conservatives know that it was the act of refusing to join with (R)nold that forced him to the right. So, by sticking to their principles, conservatism won.

Similarly, conservatives won't follow your lead and wave the white flag now, there would be no incentive for Bush to do anything to mollify his base. (Notice how Bush finally does a recess appointment of Pickering only after his amnesty flop?)

Conservatives are merely exercising their right to vote for/against the republican government they support. Real conservatives don't support socialism even if it is Republican socialism.

PS free republic is a conservative forum

[JustPiper]

BumPing!

[Zipporah]

d. none of the above

[HiJinx]

Bush has done a great deal to secure the US borders. I read somewhere that illegal immigration across the border is way down...

Actually, you're wrong on this one. I'll go look up the numbers for you, but crossings in the Tucson sector are way up and they are being reported. I'll have links and excerpts for you in a couple of minutes...

[Dane]

At this point I'm all for Gridlock and an end to the Bush Family Dynasty in politics. Seen enough of this family already.

Yep let's have Kerry, Dean, or Clark as Commander in Chief.

You all are just a bunch of malcontents with big mouths and small brains, IMO.

[HiJinx]

Border crossings will rise

In December 2002, 11,481 migrants were apprehended in the Tucson sector, which covers all of the border in Arizona except a small portion near Yuma. That number climbed to 26,823 in January 2003, Adame said.

County continues to set sector's pace

Of the 17,251 illegal immigrants apprehended last month (Dec. '03), 9,634 were taken into custody by agents at the three stations in Cochise County, Adame said Friday.

In December 2002, 11,481 illegal immigrants were apprehended sectorwide, of which 5,202 were taken into custody in Cochise County.

Immigration overhaul's effects on desert deaths unclear

That led to increased crossings, apprehensions and deaths. Most of the fatalities in Arizona are blamed on the heat -- often in the triple digits -- that migrants must endure during desert crossings.

"From what I've read and seen, it's not going to stop illegal immigration as we know it," said Ray Borane, mayor of Douglas, a border community that has often borne the brunt of the illegal immigrant wave. "The system will continue to work where employers on this side will not jump through all those hoops and will continue to encourage people to come over illegally."

2004 Entrant surge is under way

Consider:

On New Year's Eve, agents captured 438 illegal entrants. On Wednesday, they captured 702.

"We're starting to see an increase already," agency spokesman Andy Adame said.

They come by bus, foot and train, but hundreds more simply fly in, using planes like the full-sized Airbus A-320 Silva rode to cut the trip from days to hours, Mexicana Airlines Hermosillo station manager Jorge Carrillos said.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

And many great returns to those brave who fight for liberty and freedom to protect this nation from the overlords who would steal that liberty and tyrannize those who are not strong enough to fight for themselves

God Bless the American Soldier God Bless America may we be strong enough to hold that liberty against all invaders foreign and domestic

[FairOpinion]

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

I would be very interested to see some actual statistics over time -- maybe some of it is in your links. It would be nice to have a total estimated crossings per year for the past 10 years and what fraction of those did they catch. Obviously, they don't know exactly how many got throught, but they probably have an idea.

What I read is that they are catching a higher percent of the illegal border crossers, as high as 80%, and that's why the number of the apprehended ones is higher.

But I didn't save the link and could never find the article again.