Bush Offers Migrant Plan Conservatives Can Support

Arizona Republic ^ | January 18, 2004 | Jeff Flake

[Reaganwuzthebest]

President Bush's immigration initiative has sparked a great deal of discussion across the country. Perhaps the most interesting debate centers on whether the president, in announcing the initiative, has embraced conservative principles or abandoned them. I believe a temporary worker program is consistent with conservative principles, and here's why.

First, conservatives value national security, and the status quo encourages anything but national security. The presence of 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens within the confines of our borders should prompt the type of reform the president has suggested.

President Bush's proposal will ensure smarter border enforcement by redirecting resources for border security and the war on terrorism away from the dishwashers and landscapers who are trying to cross the border illegally and toward the smugglers and terrorists who are attempting to cross the border for purposes far more nefarious than filling jobs that American workers are not taking.

We can try to tighten up border enforcement even more than we already have (we've already increased spending on border enforcement six-fold over the past 20 years), but as long as the United States offers foreign workers more opportunity for work than their home countries do, people will risk their lives to cross the border.

According to Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies, "A real effort to control the border with Mexico would require perhaps 20,000 agents and the development of a system of formidable fences and other barriers along those parts of the border used for illegal crossings."

It should also be noted that some 40 percent of those illegally in the United States first entered the country legally and then overstayed their visas. Even if we did manage to seal the border from illegal crossings, the problem would still be with us. Clearly, we can't solve this problem through border enforcement alone.

A temporary worker program, coupled with serious workplace enforcement, would bring those who are in the shadows out into the open. Temporary workers would be registered. We would finally know who they are, how long they've been here, and when they must return to their home country or change their status.

Again, the "carrot" of a temporary worker program must be coupled with the "stick" of workplace enforcement. With a reasonable legal avenue available, workers should have no excuse for not utilizing it and employers should have no excuse for hiring those who do not.

The latter point is important. Conservatives respect the law. Our current immigration laws, everyone will agree, are so convoluted and out of touch with how people actually organize their lives that it does not foster respect for the law. If we want the law to be enforced, we need to have a law that can realistically be enforced given our labor needs. Which brings me to another point.

Conservatives recognize that America has a need for labor that Americans are unable or unwilling to fill. This is the case today, and will increasingly be the case in years to come as our workforce becomes older and better educated. Now, some will dispute this, noting that "there are some 10 million unemployed in this country, and some 10 million illegal aliens - do the math!"

This math adds up only if you accept that it is the federal government's role, for example, to persuade an unemployed fisherman in Maine to take a job as a landscaper in Phoenix. Or to move an unemployed schoolteacher in Indiana to the lettuce fields in Yuma. The former Soviet Union tried and failed with this type of economic planning for decades. Cuba is still trying. Neither are examples that conservatives should seek to emulate.

Third, conservatives are compassionate, despite what liberals will tell you. The fact that hundreds of illegal aliens, many of whom are women and children, die in the desert each year should compel us to action. Because a temporary worker program would allow workers to enter and exit the country through border checkpoints, the incentive to risk one's life in the desert would be diminished considerably. Under the current situation, those illegally crossing the border in search of work must make the calculation of whether to endure long periods, even years, without seeing their families, or to attempt to bring their families with them. The latter choice often leads to deadly consequences.

Finally, we conservatives are called conservatives because we want to "conserve" practices and principles that have withstood the test of time. There is little about the status quo in immigration policy that is worth conserving. Bush recognizes this. We conservatives, whether we agree with every detail of his plan or not, should applaud him for it.

[FairOpinion]

"If businesses cannot remain solvent without illegal labor, then we have problems other than one of immigration.

If the minimum wage is too high, lower it. "

===

BINGO.

My point exactly. Take away welfare from strong, healthy people, and thus take away the incentive to lay about, instead of working, eliminate minimum wage, and in a while there will be more Americans willing to do menial work, which they shun now, because it's easier to sit and collect welfare.

[kingu]

And just to clarify -- If the illegal problem can't be solved in California, forget about any problem working. Other states might have problems, we have an epidemic. Something that might cure the ills in New Hampshire will only mean you're giving the people in California a new place to go.

Any solution must address California specifically. Yes, like many things, we're the cause of the nation's ills. We're infected, and we'll infect you too unless a cure is found. Any new federal laws must specifically counter all the junk that the RATs have put into place in this state.

Officers here can not inquire as to a person's immigration state until they've been convicted. The criminals can't be deported until after they've served their sentence, and the bus to the border best be on time, or the illegals are free to walk away. No welfare or hospital in the state can ask about someone's immigration status, nor can they inform the authorities if it is discovered through a credit check that the person is using false identification or an illegal.

We nuked the head RAT, but our legislature and courts are loaded with them. We've got vocal groups ready to march, protest and scream at the drop of a hat. If Mexico wins a soccer game, we get mini riots. The problem is here, and the solution best arrive soon.

[Marak]

[You are both making the very points, why Bush's guest worker program is a step in the right direction.] Wrong.

[Bush is addressing a serious problem, which existed and has been getting worse for the past 15 years.]
No Bush is not addressing a serious problem. Bush is playing politics with a serious problem. The past amnesty program showed that it was a failure by increasing illegal immigration. The problem has been getting worse becasue we refuse to address it, jsut as Bush is now refusing to address it.

[As for the cost, I guess you don't mind paying for all the lazy bums collecting welfare, just as long as they are citizens.] I have no idea where you are going with this. Do you?

[kingu]

I am all for that -- problem is the US courts, stuffed with liberals, who overturn any sensible measures voters try to pass, such as Prop. 187.

The problem with 187 type plans (and yes, they've cleaned up a lot of the errors in the new system) is that why should California have to pass this law, and what will be the results of it?

Let's say we actually pass an effective law here. The illegals will scatter across the country, doubling in size everywhere. Some state will feel sorry and an idiot RAT will stand up and say they'll give illegals safe harbor.

These things need to be established at the national level to apply to every state, and the states forced to follow them, because otherwise, we just move the illegal population.

[babygene]

"You are both making the very points, why Bush's guest worker program is a step in the right direction."

No it doesn't, it institutionalizes the problem. The solution is to bill Mexico for the services provided to their citizens.

Take it out of the money we give them for their exports to this country. If we did that, the Mexican government would stop the illegals before they got to the border. Problem solved for new immigrants... Then go after the employers of the illegals that are already here.

[WOSG]

"Again, the "carrot" of a temporary worker program must be coupled with the "stick" of workplace enforcement. With a reasonable legal avenue available, workers should have no excuse for not utilizing it and employers should have no excuse for hiring those who do not. "

Wait a second .... that's my metaphor!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1059957/posts

[dennisw]

What a lie. Flake is a sell out on immigration and has been so for a long time. Must be those huge agribiz campaign contributions.

[kingu]

No it doesn't, it institutionalizes the problem. The solution is to bill Mexico for the services provided to their citizens.

Ok, so we bill Mexico for the illegal aliens, Mexico tells us to suck dirt, and then what? We cut their foreign aid? Anyone care to look up how much aid we give Mexico each year? I guess the next step after that is to shut down NAFTA, which was supposed to help strengthen all three countries so that they wouldn't be coming here in the first place.

Strikes me as that is a quick way to go backward, and increase the number of illegals, rather than reduce them.

[FairOpinion]

"These things need to be established at the national level to apply to every state, "

==

I am all for that -- but where is the US Congress on this?

Do you think all those bleeding heart Dems would vote for a law to withhold welfare from illegal aliens?

We would have to elect a lot more Republicans to do that.

[Marak]

[But how do you stop someone coming here through the border checkpoint itself?] Good question. Wish I had a good answer.

[and faking a license is FAR too easy.] Subcontractors here must be licensed at the county level. While I am sure there might be ways to get around it, eventually they would be outed.

[now I have to pay $40,000+ a year per illegal?] They are cost more than that already. You said they are coming here for the money. They don't want to spend a year in jail. Maybe we could make the inmates pick strawberries :)

[abigailsmybaby]

They need to slap hefty fines on employers and prosecute the touchy-feely organizations that aid and abet them as soon as they step across the border.

[Marak]

[Some are trying to resurrect a different version of it.]

I hope they are successful. America cannot afford to care for the entire world. I sure wish their own countries would work to make their homelands a better place to live.

[babygene]

"I guess the next step after that is to shut down NAFTA, which was supposed to help strengthen all three countries so that they wouldn't be coming here in the first place."

How was NAFTA going to strengthen the United States? It was a taxpayer givaway to Mexico, that is all.

[MattAMiller]

Flake is a good guy. How could he let himself get mixed up with the likes of Kolbe and McCain!?

Maybe you need to give the proposal another look. I don't expect everybody to think it will work, but there's nothing liberal about it. Not as I see it, not as Flake sees it. It's unfortunate it has to be couched in a bunch of third-way hooey, but that's salesmanship for you.

[Texasforever]

it would expand the H1-B program which has already made work very difficult to find.

I dealt with the H1-B program for many years. That program DOES NOT ALLOW EMPLOYERS TO PAY A FOREIGN WORKER ON AN H1-B VISA LESS THAN THEIR NORMAL PAY SCALE OR BENEFITS FOR ANY JOB.

[MattAMiller]

That is the WORST solution. You can't expect employers to be the cops for the INS. You are expecting for employers hiring minimum wage help to do a background investigation on these people, which would have a prohibitive cost.

Acutally I disagree here, you could provide it for free. Just provide instant checks on Social Security numbers. All you need is web page and a database.

[kingu]

I am all for that -- but where is the US Congress on this?

Finally talking about it? A month ago, hardly anyone ways. Now every RAT presidential candidate has outed themselves.

Do you think all those bleeding heart Dems would vote for a law to withhold welfare from illegal aliens? We would have to elect a lot more Republicans to do that.

Last I looked, we have a Republican senate, house and president. All are supposedly looking at the issue, yet we've got people all over the place, dredging up wacko programs no one wanted before, and even the proposers of reasonable programs tracing all over the place.

Honestly, who the heck wants a guest worker. Do we suddenly have a shortage of people who want to come and live in this country and become citizens? Aren't there huge backlogs around the world of people?

[kingu]

How was NAFTA going to strengthen the United States? It was a taxpayer givaway to Mexico, that is all.

Ahh, come on. NAFTA was a give away to corporations. The idea was somewhat sound - since corporations were looking overseas for production, we could aim them toward Mexico, hopefully improving their financial and political state so that the illegals would stop invading us. Canada would hopefully come along for the party as well.

What happened? Companies went even further abroad and congress couldn't bring themselves to put in import quotas that were needed because it'd hurt their largest contributors. Besides, the unions weren't complaining loud enough because they kept reaching into the service industries.

If Mexico's political and economic condition does not improve, we'll just keep getting people trying to hop the border. When I go shopping, I look for Made in USA first, and pray that I'm not supporting the sweat shops on Guam, then I'll look for made in Mexico or Canada. And nine times out of ten, after I can't find any of that, I'll end up with something made in China or Bangladesh.

[Marak]

[Corporate farms, perhaps? Nahh, they use the guest worker program that we already have in place,] Actually there are plenty of illegals on the corporate farms here. They even are organized and give interviews to the newspapers.

Just as a follow up to what I was saying about the illegals giving interviews down here, check this out. Article in Tomorrow's Naples Daily News