About the Moderators' recent efforts on the Illegal Alien threads: keep an open mind

January 7th, 2003 | Sabertooth

[PhiKapMom]

I just want to make sure these people are not given permanent legal status as United States Citizens. Personally do not think if you came here illegally after the age of 18 (before that you are probably a child and have no choice), that you should EVER be granted citizenship.

And if you are going to become a citizen, it is all done in English including the test that is taken. If you cannot speak English, you have no business becoming a citizen of this Country period!

I can remember when they gave blanket amnesty to the Cubans coming in and turned out some were criminals. That is just flat out wrong!

[MeekOneGOP]

[Lead Moderator]

Yes, you did. A vanity posted to breaking news titled "Thank You President Bush for Screwing my Kids, American Citizens and Legal Immigrants!".

Thanks, LM

[BushCountry]

I don't know if you noticed, but my point about the non-english speaking restaurants was not casual. This problem of non-assimilation is decades old, it is not new.

As to us being a nation of immigrants, I wonder how many people realize that the number immigrants as a percentage to the population is less today than in the 20s, 30s, 40s, ect...?

[swarthyguy]

The solution will be a new influx of illegals to take the jobs the newly legals have.

If the newly legals experience a significant drop in their employment rate, my guess is that the thinking is that those who move into the legal market will make enough of a contribution via taxes and FICA that will make up for any additional welfare/entitlement/unemployment insurance costs.

[Lead Moderator]

The problem is that there are things beyond the three simple rules which can and do cause threads to degenerate. Race baiting, flame baiting, and so forth. Usually, they don't require action. When they become overused they can develop into a problem, which is what has happened on these threads.

[Dave S]

I think this act, Posse Comitatus is the primary reason why we won't use the US Military as boarder security

No, actually its that our army is no longer large enough to guard the border in addition to its other responsibilities. As a matter of fact, we have National Guardsman and Reservists serving in Iraq at the moment. There arent enough troops to do it without becoming Fortress America.

[Poohbah]

Also, wanting troops on the border is a bit myopic. Since the border is federal, the CiC would be in charge of those troops. It would take nothing for a RAT president to simply remove them.

If there is enough political will to sharply limit illegal immigration, then putting troops on the border is unnecessary.

If there is not enough political will to sharply limit illegal immigration, then putting troops on the border is a waste of time and resources.

[ken5050]

I agree...and I had the same experience growing up, but the point is that the SECOND generation of immigrants learned, and spoke, English....the introduction of the ESL programs 20 years ago institutionalized the problem....it's easy for kids to learn a new language.....I'll never forget, 25 years ago, my neice was enrolled in a pre-k program at the local temple...of the 25 kids there, some 18 were Japanese, becuase the neighborhood had a high population of Japanese businessmen and diplomats. My sister in law was amazed, and a bit horrified initially, when after a few months her 4 year old began speaking Japanese around the house.....

[Admin Moderator]

The problem is racism, violence, profanity, etc that we just don't see, and would appreciate a heads up to those types of posts. The guidelines are pretty straight forward. Jim wants Free Republic to be somewhat clean, not a sewer like other forums. Free Republic should be a credible source for news. Just an FYI for all, not directed specifically at you, but here's the posting guidelines. The bottom line, our discussions should strive to be a better quality than any other forum on the internet.

[ken5050]

Sad, but true...also many illegals have their families abck home, to whom they remit money each month. If they're now legal..the pressure to allow them to bring their familie here will be enormous..That will be a huge strain on social services, education, and medical facilities.....once the camel's nose is under the tent..

[Sabertooth]

I agree with you. As a matter of fact, I enjoy a good rough and tumble exchange of ideas now and then. I don't even mind the name calling because that just proves that I've won the debate. The only time anyone resorts to name calling is when they can't defend their position.

At a certain point, however, the namecalling overwhelms a thread and it gets moved to the Backroom. While rougher language is allowed there, the effect is far from a free exchange of ideas. The Backroom is where nasty threads get hidden.

There has been a faction on the site that prefers it that way, so instigating flame wars to get threads nuked or moved became their M.O. Their intent has not been rough and tumble, it's been to stifle debate.

Another effect is that a lot of posters who don't care for all of the btterness have avoided the Illegal Alien threads altogether.

Civility is an enabler of the free exhcange of ideas.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Well, maybe it's me, but I just didn't see any policy violations here.

I still feel the other poster never did anything wrong. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Regards.

[PRND21]

PRND21 posted the link to VDARE

Oops.

[Pest]

Michigan has a huge hispanic population. I grew up in central Michigan around the Lansing area. I have many good friends that are hispanic. Lansing has a few very good authentic Mexican restaurants.

Detroit also has a huge Mexican population.

[hchutch]

My response to your dismissal of my concerns is as follows:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1051617/posts?page=88#88

"On this, I disagree, and this goes beyond Free Republic.

"Any movement has the added responsibility of being somewhat self-policing. Those who make illegal immigration a top priority do need to call out those who either hold the same position (or pretend to hold the same position) who start advocating violence or racism. It may not be fair, but it is reality. Tolerance of unacceptable views within a particular political faction injures that faction. That is just the way the world works."

Those are not my words. They are those of the Lead Moderator.

If you are serious, start calling out VDARE on the questionable stuff you admitted is there. Or if you won't do so, then say so.

Or can I assume that you and Mrs,. Malkin have no objection to comments like the one below?

"The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people." — SAMUEL FRANCIS, SPEECH AT THE AMERICAN RENAISSANCE CONFERENCE, MAY 1994
http://www.nationalreview.com/frum/frum031903.asp

[Lead Moderator]

OK, so maybe what I would have thought would be intuitively obvious wasn't obvious to you. So we'll make it clear for next time, so you won't be blindsided. If you disagree with something being pulled, you can argue it with the moderators (preferably by Freepmail) and/or with Jim and try to get the decision reconsidered. If I or any one of the staff here removes something, and you, Joe, repost it because you disagree, then you will be banned.

[Willie Green]

Boy, you have some real problems with truth in your statements. First, you claimed you didn't see something which was provable that you did, now you are claiming I "initiated this petty discussion over suspending" you when you did.
But you want it up here? Fine and dandy. It is up here. You got what you went out of your way to get.

Good grief.
When is JohnRob gonna implement the promised "ignore-this-poster" filter so we can do away with this silliness?

[Kevin Curry]

Civility is an enabler of the free exhcange of ideas.

You've apprently never studied the proceedings of the Constitutional Convention of 1787.

Great ideas and solutions are frequently forged in the heat of rancorous, sometimes personal, even highly unpleasant disagreement. If the matter at hand is important enough, if it is vital enough, it is almost certain generate this heat.

Beware the idea-barren tyranny of conflict-avoidance favored by mewling mediocre minds.

[Ima Lurker]

Civility is an enabler of the free exhcange of ideas.

True. This is why is said I enjoy rough and tumble exchange of ideas. But your point is correct though because when the name calling starts I get bored and move on.