About the Moderators' recent efforts on the Illegal Alien threads: keep an open mind

You may have observed the recent effort in the forum by the Lead Moderator to scrutinize and regulate the Illegal Alien threads, which started over here.

I’ve mixed it up a lot on these threads in the two-plus year I’ve been at FR, as I have some strong feelings about the subject of Illegal Aliens. While I like to think I’ve generally kept my cool, there have certainly been occasions when I haven’t.

That said, there have been plenty of occasions where I’ve attempted to engage sincere posters who did not share my opinions, only to have them jumped on by angry posters who did. In the past I’ve made posts on threads and requests by Freepmail requesting that the more aggressive posters cool their jets… to mixed results.

I’ve also seen posts suggesting that the borders be mined, which I think is stupid, hyperbolic spleen, or posts referring to the President as “Jorge Arbusto,” which stopped being funny years ago, and is now just antagonistic. It doesn’t matter that Vicente Fox once called him that in a friendly fashion, no one on the fence regarding Illegals is going to be persuaded by ad hominem rhetoric.

On the other hand, I’ve also observed a shifting coalition of posters who are less than sincere on the other side of the debate; who are prone to using Democrat talking points to smear posters who are concerned about Illegals as anti-immigrant and closet racists. When reading their posts, one half-wonders if they aren’t moles for the L.A. Times.

Their perceptions of “bigots, bigots everywhere” and posts in that vein have also been toxic to the Illegal Alien threads, and such was often the purpose of their baiting. Success was measured in flame wars, bannings, suspensions, and getting threads nuked or moved to the backroom.

It’s been my contention, and I’ve made the point to the Moderators on a number of occasions, that moving threads to the backroom only rewarded those who don’t want Illegals discussed in this forum, and encouraged their trolling behavior.

I’ll stipulate again that my own hands haven’t always been clean in picking fights and thread jumping. I’ll also reveal that about a year or so ago I attempted to organize a call, via Freepmail, for some self-restraint on these threads. Toward that end, I contacted eight fairly high-profile posters, not all of whom were regulars on the Illegal threads, and whose opinions varied widely on the issue, with the idea of some sort of joint letter. The response was uniformly positive, but the details proved to be unwieldy, however, and the effort died on the vine.

Since then I would come and go from the Illegal Alien threads, and observe the ebbs and flows of all of the behavior I saw above.

A few months ago, I took a different tack, and got into a running conversation over my concerns with the Lead Moderator, through Freepmail.

Last week an Illegal Alien thread was moved to the Backroom, in another episode of the process I described above. This irked me a little more than usual, given the imminence of President Bush’s announcement of a new direction in immigration policy, and I ranted a little more than usual to the Lead Mod.

He was receptive to some of my criticisms, and decided to try the new approach that is now the matter at hand. He posted his account last night (emphasis added)…

So, if it’s not clear already, the Lead Moderator’s statements in this post are 100% accurate and legitimate. The timing of this effort was a direct result of my conversation with him, and was not the result of some conspiracy by Free Republic higher-ups, or Karl Rove, or Vicente Fox, or whatever current dark speculation is now popular.

Nor is there any overarching effort to censor a wide-ranging debate on Illegals, as far as I’ve seen. In the context of the current effort underway on the Illegal Alien threads, I haven’t received even the slightest hint that there are subjects that are off limits to me in this regard, nor have I been given the impression that there can’t be vigorous debate, and I’m hardly a party-liner in this.

Now, I’m certain that some will find it to be an abomination that I would cooperate with a Moderator, or he with me, but, as a friend of mine likes to say, there you have it.

As for the results, they’ve been a bit mixed so far, in my estimation. Not, however, because the Mods haven’t made an effort to be evenhanded. I’ve seen a few folks I warned to keep cool get swift warning when they didn’t, and I’ve seen some of the usual baiters get cease and desist orders. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the effort to raise the tone of the debate on the Illegal Aliens isn’t sincere.

Are the Mods doing things exactly as I’d like? Nope, nor do I expect them to do so. I’ve got strong opinions and subjectivities here, so the standard of my assessment is the combined words and deeds of the Mods on these threads to correct all offenders. Things look promising thus far.

However, I do think that there are posters of diverse opinions who need to reconsider their ways, and take this effort to heart.

This debate is curious one and this post has been an informative one. However, I am stuck in the middle. I grew up on the south side of Chicago in a deeply hispanic neighborhood, where I was the minority (blond haired blue eyed, now graying though). Several resturants close to my house didn't even have an english speaking person in them, I had to point to an item on the menu for what I wanted (the seafood soup was unbelieveably good).

What I observed is that most of the people in my neighborhood were honorable, hard working, and dedicated to their families. They loved their adopted home (America) and they loved Mexico. But, they hated their corrupt government (a hundred times more corrupt then here) and knew that only poverty and despair awaits them in their country of birth. They escaped to America to provide a better life for themselves in spite loving their home country.

In spite of what other posters claim, they would not willing play host to terrorists anymore then the average American. They do not deserve to be flung back across the border by catapults. Borders do not need to mined, thus blowing up families trying to escape poverty. For most of us, it is just quirk of fate that we were born in America and a little compassionate conservatism is called for.

I truly do not know all the answers to this problem and believe that there is no easy solution. So, with every thing being said, even with the reasoned debate on this thread, I have seen no real solutions discussed or debated.

Boy, you have some real problems with truth in your statements. First, you claimed you didn't see something which was provable that you did, now you are claiming I "initiated this petty discussion over suspending" you when you did.

But you want it up here? Fine and dandy. It is up here. You got what you went out of your way to get.

To: Pubbie
"President Bush will propose immigration law changes to allow workers from Mexico to enter the United States if they have jobs waiting for them,"
Bush has just indicated that all employers who employ illegals are no longer breaking the law, that illegals who are employed in US are no longer breaking the law, and that low (lettuce picking), middle (hospital workers, etc.) and high (construction, plumbing, etc.) wage jobs are now available to foreigners who will displace Americans.
This has totally clinched it for me. What a ($#&%*$# disgrace of a Republican this man is. I don't much care any more that he's not a slut like Clinton. He has ballooned domestic spending and torn down our borders worse than Clinton ever did. We have been shafted right, left and center.
29 posted on 01/05/2004 9:07:08 PM EST by Lizavetta (Savage is right. Extreme liberalness is a mental disorder.)

To: Lizavetta
"What a ($#&%*$# disgrace"
Your anger came through loud and clear- even without this. Your post would have been better without this, and would be less likely to result in starting a flame war with some Bush supporters. Please consider that in the future, if you would. It would help prevent these threads from degenerating to where we need to backroom them or yank them.
38 posted on 01/05/2004 9:12:48 PM EST by Lead Moderator

At this point, nothing had been pulled. The above is the post you claimed on this thread to not have seen. The proof this this was a lie by you is in your reply to it which now follows.

To: Lead Moderator; Lizavetta
"Your anger came through loud and clear- even without this.
Your post would have been better without this, and would be less likely to result in starting a flame war with some Bush supporters."
You've got to be joking!
All the poster stated was, "What a ($#&%*$# disgrace".
AND IT IS A $#*^$#@ DISGRACE!
What would you suggest the poster say after 25 years of this epic invasion and attack on our sovereignty while all in DC stand gawking and are even aiding and abetting this massive lawlessness?
Are we no longer a nation of laws?
The poster did nothing wrong!
I for one am more than happy to see the truthful, justified anger. People *need* to express themselves freely.
This issue is *way* beyond calm, limp wristed discussion over tea. It's a freaking invasion of our country!
It's a government approved invasion of millions for crying out loud. Why does anyone have to walk on glass over this?
These are criminals and illegal aliens. Do some now have to mask and sugar coat their anger and walk on eggshells over this? What is really going on here??
It seems to me the Republican party knows there is going to be a political earth quake over this, and some are getting a jump on damage control.
Anyone that *isn't* absolutely outraged over this titanic invasion is no conservative, and is obviously putting party before country and is just protecting their beltway party.
This is not what this country is all about.
I've seen what this invasion has done to a people I know personally and regions I've worked in. It's an absolute disgrace!
84 posted on 01/05/2004 10:18:09 PM EST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)

I pulled your comment since you were basically throwing back at me what I had just asked not to be done.

To: Joe Hadenuf
"You've got to be joking!" Actually, I wasn't.
86 posted on 01/05/2004 10:19:47 PM EST by Lead Moderator

To: Lead Moderator
Neither was I.
87 posted on 01/05/2004 10:20:45 PM EST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)

At this point it was clear that you were primed for a pissing match. At some point thereafter, I left. Not too much later:

To: Lizavetta
Bump
This has totally clinched it for me. What a ($#&%*$# disgrace of a Republican this man is. I don't much care any more that he's not a slut like Clinton. He has ballooned domestic spending and torn down our borders worse than Clinton ever did. We have been shafted right, left and center.
92 posted on 01/05/2004 10:33:19 PM EST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)

The thread went on for several hours with you involved until the next morning, when I came back to check on the thread and saw your throwing it back again. That's when you got hit with the suspension. And the next time such a situation occurs with you, it won't be just a suspension but a ban.

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