AP crowns USC (mythical) national champs (Final Poll is out)

espn ^ | 1/5/03 | AP

[Diddle E. Squat]

RANK TEAM RECORD PTS PVS

1. USC (48) 12-1 1,608 1 Last game: Def. Michigan 28-14 (Jan. 1)

2. LSU (17) 13-1 1,576 2 Last game: Def. Oklahoma 21-14 (Jan. 4) Next game: vs. Oklahoma (Jan. 4)

3. Oklahoma 12-2 1,476 3 Last game: Lost to LSU 21-14 (Jan. 4) Next game: vs. LSU (Jan. 4)

4. Ohio State 11-2 1,411 7 Last game: Def. Kansas State 35-28 (Jan. 2)

5. Miami 11-2 1,329 10 Last game: Def. Florida State 16-14 (Jan. 1)

6. Michigan 10-3 1,281 4 Last game: Lost to USC 28-14 (Jan. 1)

7. Georgia 11-3 1,255 11 Last game: Def. Purdue 34-27 (Jan. 1)

8. Iowa 10-3 1,107 13 Last game: Def. Florida 37-17 (Jan. 1)

9. Washington State 10-3 1,060 15 Last game: Def. Texas 28-20 (Dec. 30)

10. Miami (OHIO) 13-1 932 14 Last game: Def. Louisville 49-28 (Dec. 18)

11. Florida State 10-3 905 9 Last game: Lost to Miami 16-14 (Jan. 1)

12. Texas 10-3 887 5 Last game: Lost to Washington State 28-20 (Dec. 30)

13. Mississippi 10-3 845 16 Last game: Def. Oklahoma State 31-28 (Jan. 2)

14. Kansas State 11-4 833 8 Last game: Lost to Ohio State 35-28 (Jan. 2)

15. Tennessee 10-3 695 6 Last game: Lost to Clemson 27-14 (Jan. 2)

16. Boise State 13-1 645 18 Last game: Def. TCU 34-31 (Dec. 23)

17. Maryland 10-3 564 23 Last game: Def. West Virginia 41-7 (Jan. 1)

18. Purdue 9-4 526 12 Last game: Lost to Georgia 34-27 (Jan. 1)

19. Nebraska 10-3 520 22 Last game: Def. Michigan State 17-3 (Dec. 29)

20. Minnesota 10-3 368 24 Last game: Def. Oregon 31-30 (Dec. 31)

21. Utah 10-2 308 25 Last game: Def. Southern Miss 17-0 (Dec. 31)

22. Clemson 9-4 230 NR Last game: Def. Tennessee 27-14 (Jan. 2)

23. Bowling Green 11-3 189 NR Last game: Def. Northwestern 28-24 (Dec. 26)

24. Florida 8-5 165 17 Last game: Lost to Iowa 37-17 (Jan. 1)

25. TCU 11-2 126 19 Last game: Lost to Boise State 34-31 (Dec. 23)

OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES Oklahoma State 109, Arkansas 73, Virginia 36, Northern Illinois 30, Auburn 8, Oregon State 8, Pittsburgh 7, N.C. State 7, West Virginia 4, Connecticut 2.

DROPPED FROM RANKINGS West Virginia 20, Oklahoma State 21.

[Joe_October]

A pleasure.

[RichInOC]

USC had a loss, came back, ran the table, won their conference, won their bowl, and were voted first by the writers, second by the coaches.

LSU had a loss, came back, ran the table, won their conference, won their bowl, and were voted first by the coaches, second by the writers.

In my opinion, that makes them both champions. In my opinion, it takes nothing away from either to say that. And since I personally did not sign on to abide by the verdict of the BCS, I'm under no legal or moral obligation to consider one less genuine than the other, as far as I'm concerned.

I'll even congratulate Oklahoma on having a good year, although not a better year than SC or LSU. I would say that in light of OU's losing both its conference championship and the Sugar Bowl (soundly) despite leading the BCS standings wire-to-wire, in addition to other incidents over the last few years, the parties to the BCS might reconsider whether it's all that useful at doing what it was supposed to do. That's a
euphemism for, "They ought to let the thing die when the contract runs out and replace it with something else." Frankly, with each attempt at "improving" the postseason, the old "unimproved" system looks better and better.

[Joe_October]

Another California guy weighs in and twists the facts again.

The corrupt AP poll voted for their choice.

The coaches and the agreed-to BCS system picked a champion.

So, who are complaining about the BCS most? The writers who can no longer crown a winner and the fans of the team that is hurt by the agreed to system.

But, they find the oddest ways to justify it. Oklahoma met a better team this evening. That's why they lost.

I didn't sign up the BCS either so I think California should be the champion. How could USC complain about that?

[tagatose]

Auburn 28, Wisconsin 14 (Music City Bowl) W Arkansas 27, Missouri 14 (Independence Bowl) W Florida 17, Iowa 37 (Outback Bowl) L Georgia 34, Purdue 27 (Capitol One Bowl) W Missippi 31, Oklahoma St. 28 (Cotton Bowl) W Tennessee 14, Clemson 27 (Peach Bowl) L LSU 21, Oklahoma 14 (Sugar Bowl) W

By my count the SEC went 5-2 in bowls. So please pull some other statistic out of the air to support your position. Preferable try a non-provable one this time.

[Zack Attack]

USC had a loss, came back, ran the table, won their conference, won their bowl, and were voted first by the writers, second by the coaches.

LSU had a loss, came back, ran the table, won their conference, won their bowl, and were voted first by the coaches, second by the writers.

True, but at least the AP got to vote according to it's own initiative. The coaches contractually had to vote the winner of the Sugar Bowl #1, essentially declaring their votes and their poll meaningless. Their #1 team, like the AP, was USC on their final "free will" ballot.

I know it was the agreed to system, but certainly not agreed to, nor desired by most fans. Either way, we have 2 national champions once again and I'm not bitter over either winning it, just ranting that we can't have something better. They are both excellent football teams, but it sucks that they leave it this way.[/end rant]

[TheConservator]

You call the AP sports writers "corrupt." That word has a very specific meaning--that the writers cast their votes in exchange for a payoff of some kind. But you provide no evidence to support your claim, other than ludicrous non-sequiturs.

For example, you state "it against their interest to vote with the BCS." Even if this is true, it hardly establishes "corruption."

But I am aware of little to no evidence that it is true. Historically, the two systems have tended to produce a single winner. They typically produce a split decision only in years (like this one) in which there are two teams with identical loss records and very similar levels of accomplishment. In other words, when there are good and legitimate (i.e., non-"corrupt") grounds for splitting the title of "national champion."

You also argue that the AP sportswriter's poll is flawed because the AP's political reporting is flawed. ("Are you defending the AP writers? They picked Gore, Dean, Hussein, Bin Laden, Abortion on Demand, more taxes, universal health care. I can't think of an issue they got right."). But the one rather obviously has nothing to do with the other.

You also claim that the AP surpresses the results of sportswriters' polls "they" disagree with. ("[T]hey show their bias in the polls they REVEAL. Imagine, the ones you can't see."). In the absence of hard evidence that the AP has ever surpressed any poll results, that is tinfoil-hat-ism of the most paranoid kind. If you have evidence, I would be interested in seeing it.

Ultimately, in the absence of a head to head matchup, the issue of which team is "national champion" is simply a matter of opinion. As a conservative, I will stick with the long-established and accepted "two poll system" for that determination.

Congratulations to LSU, the BCS national champion. And congratulations to USC, the AP national champion.

[Baseballguy]

OHIO STATE should never ever ever ever be behind michiganders...

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

Am I reading this wrong or is this poll not counting the LSU/OU game in the final stats?

2. LSU (17) 13-1 1,576 2 Last game: Def. Oklahoma 21-14 (Jan. 4) Next game: vs. Oklahoma (Jan. 4)

3. Oklahoma 12-2 1,476 3 Last game: Lost to LSU 21-14 (Jan. 4) Next game: vs. LSU (Jan. 4)

[Baseballguy]

Those two teams where bad. There where soo many flags, and turnovers neither should even be in the top 5.

[LibertarianInExile]

Nope, it's the same as the stupid PAC bias at work--the whole Left coast has lots of grads working on newspapers picking PAC teams that don't have to play anyone but PAC and WAC wuss squads, or Big Ten pushovers (at least, the Ten have been lately, playing each other and acting like it's oh-so-tough beating Penn State or Indiana).

Texas has the same situation, all those Texas grads working at newspapers and pushing for in-state and Okie schools, until they have to play each other or someone from out of the Big 12. Then it's every alumni for himself, and inevitably Texas wins that battle because they have the most journalism grads in high places and play a single game a year lately--the big 12 champeenship.

One day there will be a 16-team single elimination playoff, and this lameass BCS/'who's the best conference' crap will be settled.

[LibertarianInExile]

Give me a f'in break. Anti West-Coast bias? The PAC is such a candyass football conference Michael Jackson stalks Tom Hansen. Your alumni writers have been puffing PAC teams up the AP polls since Warren Harding was president. I'm sorry, but USC deserves the national championship for one sport, competitive whining. Quit the BCS and go back to playing in your flower bowl and those oh-so-tough WAC-only cross-conference schedules, and make those of us who would prefer to go a whole season without listening to Keith Jackson smooching PAC hiney happy.

[Snuffington]

Is Florida the new (post-greatness) Notre Dame? 5 losses, crushed in their bowl game, and they still make the top 25?

[LisaMalia]

I don't think you can take all the good things Woody did away from him because of one unfortunate incident.
Geeesssshhhhhhhh!

[raptor29]

"Your alumni writers have been puffing PAC teams up the AP polls since Warren Harding was president".

2003 is now the fifth time (1954,1974,1978,1991,2003) a Pac-10 school has won a split national title in football. And 2003 is the FIRST TIME they won the AP poll in those five title years. Each of the other four, the Coaches (who generally know better) voted the Pac-10 team #1, while the writers voted some other team #1, such as in 1978, when USC and Alabama both finished 12-1, USC played Alabama that year, in Alabama, and kicked their ass 24-14, I believe. They were up 24-0 at one point. Facts to a liberal (and many times, to a libertarian) can be problematic.

[mikegi]

Here is the breakdown of teams in the final AP Top 25 by conference:

5 - Big10
5 - SEC
4 - Big12
3 - ACC
2 - Pac10
2 - MAC (Miami-OH #10, Bowling Green #23)
1 - Big East (Miami #5)
1 - WAC (Boise St #16)
1 - Mountain West (Utah #21)
1 - Conference USA (TCU #25)

---

Breakdown of AP Top 10 by conference:

3 - Big 10 (Ohio St #4, Michigan #6, Iowa #8)
2 - Pac 10 (USC #1, Wash St #9)
2 - SEC (LSU #2, Georgia #7)
1 - Big 12 (Oklahoma #3)
1 - Big East (Miami #5)
1 - MAC (Miami-OH #10)

---

It's pretty clear that the Big10 was the toughest conference followed by the SEC.

[raptor29]

Also, USC received a robust 48 of the 65 first place votes in the AP poll. Lotta Trojan journalism grads out there, all over the country.

[Charles Martel]

I don't think its so much that they loathe LSU. It's more that they aren't a "glamor" team...like Notre Dame or USC which always got more press than they deserved in bad years.

I agree. AP is in full "I Feel Yore Pain" mode, sucking-up to the big California audience. If the situation were reversed and it was LSU that wasn't invited to the dance, there is precious little chance that the AP polling would favor LSU.

[staytrue]

Would USC fans argue so strongly if they were in the Sugar and LSU was in the Rose?

No, because USC was #2 in the BCS and LSU was #3 and without either team taking the field, the places magically flipped when Notre Dame and Hawaii lost. LSU on the other hand was never #2 until the end. It would be as if George Bush were standing on the podium about to take the oath of office, then some guy walks in and says a computer found a few more votes in FL for Gore and he were president.

[staytrue]

The SEC is a good conference, but when the coaches and writers had a chance to express their free will without regards to contractual agreements, they both voted USC #1.

I think we sports fans want to see LSU and USC as it is not clear who is better. But one thing we all agreed upon is that OU and the Big 12 were overrated choking dogs in the bowls and OU should have never been there. The Big 12 was 1-6 in the bowls.

[staytrue]

AP is in full "I Feel Yore Pain" mode, sucking-up to the big California audience

Actually, the coaches in their final free will vote, also voted USC #1. The coaches "voted" for LSU only because of the were obligated to.