Notice Regarding Immigration Related Threads

[Lead Moderator]

Hello everyone.

I've been talking to some long time Freepers via email for several weeks (one in particular). His concern was over the immigration threads and how they turn out on Free Republic.

Many times these threads turn into flame wars. There appears to be a lot of pent up hostility that various factions have developed for each other which ends up coming out, over and over, and the result is that the threads turn into a lot of crap. The moderators get hit with dozens of abuse reports over personal attacks and other silliness. Eventually, it becomes more work than is really worthwhile, and the threads get moved to the backroom so we don't have to deal with it.

This is an OK status quo when it occurs just occasionally. But when it happens frequently, it is not OK. That means that there is a problem.

So we are going to try to fix the problem.

There are sincere people on both sides of the debate who have gotten too into the battle that they are no longer being constructive. The goal will be to help them get back on track.

But we have two groups of people who are completely not sincere.

One group is those who really have no other goal other than to try to fracture conservatives and turn them on each other. One group is those who think that those most concerned with immigration are really just bigots and want to shout them down.

The good news is that both of these groups are very, very small. The bad news is that lots of people are firmly convinced that many of those who are just riled up sincere Freepers are actually part of one of these small groups. In other words, a lot of suspicion of motives has come about.

We're going to have to overcome that.

One of us tried something with a topic which had developed a similar problem, the Creation/Evolution threads. We'll give that type of approach a try for the immigration threads.

So here is what is going to happen. Starting tomorrow, when I see an immigration related thread go up, I am going to post immediately a warning that this would be a very bad thread to engage in insulting or flame baiting. When I see someone ignoring the warning, I'll address them personally telling them to knock it off.

What we need those who are serious about the issue to do is to act responsibly during this time. Engage in debate, without the insults. Post arguments, not ad hominems. Post facts, not innuendos. If you don't like someone, figure out a way to not have it get in the way of your postings. If you want to be disagreeable, do so without being needlessly disrespectful and instigative.

What will happen is, over time with this approach, those who are just trying to stir up crap, and those who are unable to help themselves, will stick out like sore thumbs and will get the axe.

And once that happens, then more direct involvement will not be needed, which I think everyone will agree is the preferred way.

So ping those who you know are interested in debating the topic to this thread, so they can see what is coming.

Thanks

[ODDITHER]

Aha - kind of like time out in Kindergarten. Come to think of it.........

[JackelopeBreeder]

If you followed any of Jackelope Breeder's comments, you'll remember seeing a claim that he has been responsible for spotting (and having the BCBP apprehend) several thousand illegals last year. I would suggest he is being modest.

Let me be more modest. The figures were for all of us in American Border Patrol. The best estimate we could come up with among ourselves was something just over 3,000. That was back around August and the subject hasn't popped up since then. We used to keep an accurate tally when we first started out, but after a while the numbers just became meaningless.

It sounds impressive, but the Border Patrol caught over 175,000 here last year, so we were only able to help out with about 1.8% of their total.

I would add that Chris Simcox and Civil Homeland Defense over in Tombstone have a similar record to ours. That search and rescue effort they mounted during the worst of the summer yielded good results.

[sarcasm]

the Border Patrol caught over 175,000 here last year,

I call that an invasion.

[SCalGal]

Alaska

I'd say that isn't so, since federal $ (including federal $ paid by Alaskan taxpayers) was used to bail out the border states' hospital mess.

[JackelopeBreeder]

I call that an invasion.

Nope, just the small number of the unlucky. The total catch here on the southern border last year was just over 932,000.

The Border Patrol's political masters back in DC say they manage to catch about half. If so, that means about a million made it across safely.

The Border Patrol's sector-level middle management usually say they catch about a third. Okay, that makes maybe two million that hit the home run last year.

The working Border Patrol agents in the field claim they catch about one in five...a really ugly scenario, isn't it?

These figures do not include our other borders or the huge number that simply over-stay their visas.

[SandRat]

I can go along with this so long as the threads are prefaced with the definition that: it's an immigrant if they came into the country on legal documents through a US Customs Port of Entry and they are illegals if they came into the US any other way or over stayed their Visa (no, not the credit card).

[Admin Moderator]

Moderator's note: threads regarding immigration issues and border issues have been spiralling out of control for some time on Free Republic. This is going to change. Fair warning: this would be a very poor thread to engage in flame warring, flame baiting, or otherwise being needlessly instigative. If you have not yet read this thread, you may want to before engaging in the debate on this or other similar threads. If there are any questions regarding the new scrutiny of these threads, please take them to that thread rather than cluttering up these threads. Thanks, and happy Freeping.

[Cultural Jihad]

Exactly. Hispanics are as likely to be opposed to illegal immigration as Anglos are, so that alone should be a reason to refrain from slamming anyone's culture, language, holidays, or race.

[Cultural Jihad]

But... what if they ARE all guilty?

Every man? Every woman? Every child? All violent felons? That is being bigoted, friend.

[Cultural Jihad]

Well, in both cases they are immigrants. The term "illegals" is a pejorative term only used against undocumented immigrants and not jaywalkers, highway speeders, and seat belt shirkers, even though they are all midemeanor offenses. Remember that Jews in Nazi Germany were legally deemed "illegals," too.

[sarcasm]

If so, that means about a million made it across safely.

A lot of lettuce pickers.

[Czar]

Check your Freepmail...

[Lead Moderator]

Without treading too deeply into the debate, I think you are missing the point he was making. He did not specify of what they are guilty. By definition, an illegal immigrant is guilty of violating immigration law.

I did not see any bigotry in his reply.

[Lead Moderator]

Danke

[A Navy Vet]

"...so that alone should be a reason to refrain from slamming anyone's culture, language, holidays, or race."

So does that mean we can't civily discuss and support the Anglo-based American culture? Or is ANY discussion of assimilation into what many believe to be the superior culture off limits?

[Lead Moderator]

As with many things in life, the devil is in the details. I can envision many discussions about American culture and how and why we should assimilate our immigrants into it that would be fine and dandy. I can also envision many discussions which would be utter garbage.

[A Navy Vet]

Thanks for the answer and clarification.

[Lead Moderator]

Flag on the play.

Comparing the calling of someone who has violated our immigration law an illegal is not comparable to anything the Nazis did. Even attempting to make that analogy is an insult to all the victims of the Third Reich. That would be an example of some of the stuff we need to leave out of these threads in order for them to avoid turning into giant pissing contests (pardon my French).

[sarasmom]

No key, but you seem fine!
I think this is a good idea.
Flush out the trolls and disrupters.
We had to kind of self police on the Terri Schiavo threads,with volunteer "troll alert" monitors, as threats were being made by and towards disrupters. It gets awfully hard to stick to the issues, when it is one you care deeply about, and internet jerks are just out for a little fun.

[NewRomeTacitus]

"Depending on whose best interests are at the heart of this executive order (native born or illigal immigrants), this order has an historical opportunity to either greatly heal or greatly harm our national unity."

After such magnificent decision-making and leadership over the course of this post 9-11 reality, to do what the media is hinting at would be tantamount to betraying the trust of the stalwart who have stood behind the President during these turbulent times. That is especially true for our people fighting and dying overseas. To grant an amnesty now would only encourage minions of the evil fanatics they're opposing to ride in on the human wave that will surely inundate the recently bolstered line.
Your assessment is dead-on correct, yet I feel the purpose of the National Guard is just that: guarding the nation. I only propose that they cover the areas B.I.C.E. lack the resources to cover, as the military has those and the least corruptible personnel to succeed in that mission.
Slamming the door isn't cruel, it's "tough love" that would force Mexico to deal with its problems realistically. Right now it's a candidate for a 12-Step program and we're the enabler that allows it to continue ruining the both of us.