A Troubling Influence - An Islamic Fifth Column penetrates the White House

FrontPageMagazine ^ | 12/09/03 | Frank J Gaffney Jr.

[Sabertooth]

Mirza (one of the names on Grover's WH Muslim Outreach waiver list), is the chief financial officer of the SAAR Trust/SAFA group of entities raided by Operation Greenquest in the aforementioned largest terror-finance investigation by the US government anywhere in the world. (see Farah, et al, Washington Post) He funded Sami AlArian and the Islamic Institute and was an attendee of the Islamic Institute's "Islamic Banking" conference with Grover last Fall -- well after the raid and the April, 2002 Wall Street Journal article by Glenn Simpson which outlined some of the groups in question and linked Saffuri, Othman, Mirza and Barzingi (the strategist and effectively COO of the alleged terror financing network of entities raided) in an illustrative chart.

Not sure this is the same Simpson article to which you're referring, from March 2002...

Funds Under Terror Probe Flowed From Offshore

By GLENN R. SIMPSON
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

WASHINGTON -- Large sums from two offshore financial havens flowed through the accounts of several U.S.-based companies and charities raided Wednesday by Treasury Department agents investigating terrorism financing, tax and corporate records show.

The flow of funds through Panama and the Channel Islands, both of which have strict bank secrecy laws, obscures both the origin and the destination of the money.

There is no evidence directly connecting those funds to terrorism, but corporate and bank records do show connections between the U.S. firms and some individuals and entities abroad that the U.S. Treasury already has designated as aiding terrorism. These include Al-Taqwa Management, a recently liquidated Swiss company the U.S. government believes acted as a banker for Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda terrorist network.

In this week's raids, agents sought financial information on a web of trusts, charities and for-profit companies affiliated with Virginia businessman M. Yaqub Mirza, according to a search warrant. The warrant indicates the government is investigating possible ties between these entities and several terrorists and terrorist groups, including Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hamas, al Qaeda, Abdul Aziz Odeh, Omar Abdel Rahman and Osama bin Laden.

Calls Thursday to Mr. Mirza and his lawyer weren't returned. Iqbal Unus, an official of the Mirza-supported foundation International Institute of Islamic Thought, said Mr. Mirza hasn't committed any wrongdoing. "He's a very clean person," Mr. Unus said.

The SAAR Foundation Inc., a defunct Virginia nonprofit formerly run by Mr. Mirza that is at the heart of the probe, gave $9 million in 1998 to a Channel Islands entity called the Humana Charitable Trust, according to its tax return. Humana is based in the Isle of Man. SAAR in 1998 also reported a $231,000 debt to Key Overseas Inc., a Panamanian company.

Key Overseas and another Panamanian company, Solemagic SA, made $9 million in loans in 1990 to another Mirza company, Mar-Jac Poultry Inc., other records show. Mar-Jac is among the companies named in the Treasury Department search warrant.

Mar-Jac, SAAR and several other companies and charities operate or have operated out of more than a dozen homes and offices located near each other in northern Virginia, the records show.

Two people affiliated with the companies and charities are linked by records to entities already designated as terrorist by the U.S. government. Hisham Al-Talib, who served as an officer of SAAR, the International Institute of Islamic Thought and Safa Trust Inc., another Mirza charity, during the 1970s was an officer of firms run by Youssef M. Nada, records show. Mr. Nada is a Switzerland-based businessman whose assets have been frozen by the U.S. for alleged involvement in terrorist financing, and is alleged by U.S. officials to be a key figure in the Taqwa network. Mr. Nada denies wrongdoing.

There was no answer Thursday at the phone listed for Mr. Talib at his address in Herndon, Va.

Jamal Barzinji, an officer of Mr. Mirza's company Mar-Jac and other entities, also was involved with Mr. Nada's companies in the 1970s, according to bank documents from Liechtenstein. A message was left Thursday for Mr. Barzinji at his address in Herndon. Mr. Barzinji and Mr. Talib live across the street from each other.

A third business associate of Mr. Nada, Ali Ghaleb Himmat (who also has been designated by the Treasury aiding terrorism), is listed as an official of the Geneva branch of another charity operated by Mr. Mirza, the International Islamic Charitable Organization. Neither Ali Ghaleb Himmat nor the International Islamic Charitable Organization was named in the U.S. government's search warrant. Mr. Himmat couldn't be located for comment.

Muslim leaders from the Washington area condemned this week's raids and accused the government of targeting innocent Muslims in hopes of catching a few guilty ones. "This is a blatant harassment of Islamic institutions and families," said Shaker Elsayed, coordinator of the National Muslim Leadership Summit.

The Muslim leaders -- including several from organizations whose offices were searched by federal agents -- condemn terrorism and the killing of "innocent civilians," said Jason Erb, government affairs director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. Mr. Erb called the raids a "fishing expedition" by law-enforcement agencies. "Those who have been targeted are very moderate voices," said Louay Safi, director of research at the International Institute of Islamic Thought, whose Herndon offices were raided. "It seems like the government is declaring open season on Muslims in America," said Abdulwahab Alkebsi, executive director of the Islamic Institute in Washington. The groups are considering what further steps to take and expect Muslim clerics nationwide to raise alarms with their congregations during weekly prayers Friday.

--Michael M. Phillips contributed to this article.

Write to Glenn R. Simpson at glenn.simpson@wsj.com

Updated March 22, 2002
Funds Under Terror Probe Flowed From Offshore
GLENN R. SIMPSON - Wall Street Journal | March 22nd, 2002

[Trollstomper]

And that's the end of the briefing. Al-Arian says "At 3:30 the president would have announced the end of secret evidence" - there's supposed to be some sort of "announcement" at 3:30, and yet the President's own press secretary doesn't bother to mention it to...the press, who would presumably be interested in covering any such public event with the President. Why? If you're making an announcement, ostensibly for public consumption, isn't it the press secretary's job to, you know, get the press involved by giving them a heads-up? Why doesn't the record reflect any such public event scheduled on that day, that Al-Arian claims was supposed to happen?\\


1. The sequencing questions were answered yesterday.
2. The Press secy hardly ever give a full account, even a half account of the next press con, esp on an issue that they know will be controversial. But anyway, all that is beside the point, Not all "announcements" are made by the PS or to the press. If the WH decides to agree to support an interest group's plan they meet with the group in some cramped room, and tell them so. That is more likely what Sami meant by "announcement." Esepcially as they were about the only group asking for this, and all of law enforcement opposed it.
3) As explained and obvious, the groups are regularly told the President, Vp, First Lady NSC advisor, etc., will come, do, announce, or whatever, in the WH or around the town or country, never intending or prossing , or alternately intending or hoping but supplanted by events, they then send someone else. Also initiatives sometimes jsut get killed or postpone in a day's time.
4) The fact and issue is that this is what the Muslim groups beleived and came to town for and, in the event, met with WH Muslim outreach staffer Suheil Khan, later that day (a very messed up and confusing day here to be sure), at Grover and Gaffney's conference room. No point trying to decipher the shadows on the wall clock. We are talking about the advancing of the "Secret Evidence" issue and a White House meeeting that perforce had to be relocated 5 blocks away. OK?

[Trollstomper]

"I am just dubious that what he is saying is the truth."

Wel, the AMC also say so, and the meeting took place under the management of the White House liaison officer, at the Grover/Gaffney conference room and all the usual suspects were there, seen, etc. So, I think that about covers it.

[Trollstomper]

".. that the Washington Post know for it's unnamed sources?

You just told me more about yourself..."

Like what? That I am writing all this from a cabin in the Ozarks, but rather that I am involved in DC policy matters and buzz enough to know that the WPost is doing stories on Grover. Yep. outted myself

And that the Post is one of the national media that quotes me (by name, sorry) as a terrorism expert.

Yes. Outted myself

not to say that people who know a lot about terrorism and get quoted in the Post couldn't live in cabins in the Ozarks, eh?

[Trollstomper]

"Why the hyperbole here? Wasn't Norquist responding to accusations by Gaffney about Suhail Kahn?"


No. as the record shows, Gaffney was questioning the judgment of people letting the likes Alamoudi, AlArian and Awad into the WH and otehr meetings, and, of sendng the FBI director to address Alamoudi and Vickers' American Muslim Counil, see above. Grover responded to that, and to Gaffney's same point at CPAC re Ali Tulbah (who had just been thanked by the AMC fro brining them in to the WH)-- the same way he repsonds to all criticsm, by twisting it, calling it racist and then denouncing you as a Bigot. Gaffney did not attack call them traitors or terrorists, or any such thing. Period

[Nick Danger]

People have, in public, by not just Rove, but the PRESIDENT, been handed their head for calling attention to the problem

I see. And so now you must step in, because the President himself has the wrong policy. If Rove is taking his direction from the President, and Norquist is taking his from Rove, those two must be exposed, eliminated, and taken down, one by one, so that the President's policy cannot be carried out.

And this is under whose direction, sir? Your own?

That's pretty cheeky. It might also be insane. Or it could be the highest form of heroism. It might be difficult for us to sort that out.

Are you sure there isn't something going on here that's above your pay grade? It seems to me that we either believe that, or we believe that the President is in cahoots with Rove, Norquist, and the other traitors to hand the U.S. over to the bad guys. I mean, it's either that or you're a nut.

[Trollstomper]

She won't go to Rove -- in the opinion of people who work for her and who know of previous such problems. The Dom and Nat Sec sides almost never agree, or work together well in any WH.

[Trollstomper]

Look.. I directly and factually commented on a known event,much publicised. You can draw whatever conclusion you wish. The USSS came into a WH outreach group meeting (Faith Based Initiatives) and removed Samil AlArian's sone. They did this, as they said anyway, because his name came up as an alternative name for his father, who was on their bad list. Grover and Saffuri made a "federal issue" --that is to say the screamed "Civil rights" an the whoel gang joined the. Mahdi Bray, a former SDS member who was in the mtg later called his rump group the White House 8 because they went out and clung to the WH fence in defiance until the news people came. All above saw it as an opporunity to take advantage of a law enforcement "mistake" (doing their job)and run the "civil rights bloddy shirt up the pole. So , swinging into action, Al Arian et cie demand an apology; Grover and Saffuri got Rove to demand teh USSS write one, they get this asked about at the press con, the press secy says the President is aware and sorry and their can be no such behavior, profilingor whateve, and calls Mrs Al Arian to apologize and convey that the USSS has been directed to do the same. Rove and Grover and the lobby made up thier own tempest so they could serve their agenda and the President looks like he is putting a slug in "racism" and profiling, the USSS gets chewed out for doing their job, everyone gets the message not to do THAT again, and that Grover is one powerful dude. The muj get to cite the example for ever, and get on TV immediately, and the wife of the now-jailed worldwide secretary of the Palestinian Islamic ihad, gets a phoned apology from the President and an aoplogy from the USSS. Yeah, ain't it nuts? That's the sorry, that's what I referred to, the rest is your smoke.

[Trollstomper]

" WSJ -Jason Erb, government affairs director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. Mr. Erb called the raids a "fishing expedition" by law-enforcement agencies. "Those who have been targeted are very moderate voices," said Louay Safi, director of research at the International Institute of Islamic Thought, whose Herndon offices were raided. "It seems like the government is declaring open season on Muslims in America," said Abdulwahab Alkebsi, executive director of the Islamic
Institute in Washington."

Yep, and I guess it's ok with Nick Danger, et al, if Grover's guy Alkebsi (another former Alamoudi deputy, by the way) says the Bush government "has declared open season on Muslims in America" -- thus calling the President a liar and hypocrite, not to mentiona "racsit and bigot," eh?

Note also that associates of all three above people claiming moderation, innocence and victimhood, have since been arrested for terrorism including: Mr Erbs's colleages, Royer and Khaffagi; Alkebsi's former boss and II funder, Alamoudi; or, listed, in the case of IIIT's Mr. Taha Al Alwani (another Grover funder), as an, as-yet, unindicted coconspirator in the Samil Al Arian case. But I'm sure it's all a mistake.

[bvw]

What's your pay grade, Nick?

[secretagent]

marker

[Nick Danger]

the rest is your smoke.

No, I think you brought enough smoke for both of us. Let's have another toke of this stuff:

Last,in this same vein: the same is true of Grover's donor and his successor as Islamic Insitute chairman, Talaat Othman. Othman is an old Bush family friend, so much so that he is invested for 17 % of W's oil company, Harken Energy, on behalf of his Saudi boss gigilionaire Sheikh Baksh. Othman was appointed to the Texas State Utilities commission, even though he lives in Illinois. Othman also gave the invocation at the GOP 2000 convention (the first Muslim at either Party's convention, and possibly at Grover's suggestion)

Enough with the innuendo, and enough with the "Grover did it." Here you bring us an "old Bush family friend," that Grover Grover Grover who was appointed to the Texas State Utilities Commission -- another redoubt of Norquist's power, I'm sure -- and who was invested in, and on the board of, Harkin Energy... which was Grover Norquist's W's oil company, and who gave the invocation Grover Grover Grover at the GOP convention that nominated an old family friend of his, who today is the President of the United States.

OK, so here's Grover again, messing around with another one of them thar Muslims, taking money from him and making him chairman of the Islamic Institute. In the next paragraph, this here Muslim is gonna get mixed up with raids and terrorism charges and all kinds of bad stuff, ending on the note that "this Othman guy joins the Board of a fund run by a terrorist finance wiz, who also funded Sami Al Arian."

We interrupt this program to remind our audience that we are talking here about an old Bush family friend, a man who served on the board of directors of the President's oil company, and who is now being presented to us as another one of those shady Muslim types that Grover Norquist hangs out with.

Now I didn't make any of that stuff up. You wrote it. You dragged the guy in here, you taped him to Grover Norquist, and you set the two of them next to the terrorist bombers. Only somewhere along the way you accidentally mentioned that this guy goes way back with the Bushes and probably knew Dubya before either one of them ever heard of Grover Norquist.

So once again: what is the game here, Jack? Are you accusing the President of the United States of something, or are you not? You just dragged us through the same sort of associations (old family friend, on the board, invested money in) and the same sort of links to terrorists (Mirza, Ptech, MENA, terrorist finance wiz) that you've been pounding Grover Norquist with, only this time it's all about the President.

Based on information that you brought in here, rolled up and lit or otherwise, we can fairly describe this guy as being on the board of both the President's company, and "a fund run by a terrorist finance wiz, who also funded Sami Al Arian."

That's heavy stuff. Remind me again why you're going after Grover Norquist. It seems to me that you nailed the President in exactly the same way you nailed Grover Norquist. If a guy who was once appointed to the Texas Utilities Commission is suddenly appointed the chairman of Grover's Institute, it's a reasonable question to ask which way the Muslims are flowing. So what's the deal here? Are you afraid that if you go around making these kinds of charges against Bush, that people will dismiss you as a nut? So you make them against Norquist because most people don't know who Norquist is? What good will that do? The Republic is in peril. If the President has guys who associate with Muslim terrorists in his inner circle, and he is telling people like Grover Norquist to appoint them to high positions in his Institute, then the Grover Norquist problem can be moved to the back burner for a bit. You seem to have this fixation on taking out Grover Norquist when your own data points to A Much Larger Problem.

I would like to ask this question again: Are you sure there isn't something going on here that's above your pay grade?

[FreeReign]

"Why the hyperbole here? Wasn't Norquist responding to accusations by Gaffney about Suhail Kahn?"

No. as the record shows, Gaffney was questioning the judgment of people letting the likes Alamoudi, AlArian and Awad into the WH and otehr meetings, and, of sendng the FBI director to address Alamoudi and Vickers' American Muslim Counil, see above. Grover responded to that, and to Gaffney's same point at CPAC re Ali Tulbah (who had just been thanked by the AMC fro brining them in to the WH)-- the same way he repsonds to all criticsm, by twisting it, calling it racist and then denouncing you as a Bigot. Gaffney did not attack call them traitors or terrorists, or any such thing. Period

Gaffney made charges that both Suhail Kahn and Ali Tulbah have family ties to extremist Wahhabi religious groups.

Did Gaffney backup his charges against both Kahn and Tulbah with supporting information? Can you? What are the details of these family ties?

[FreeReign]

And that the Post is one of the national media that quotes me (by name, sorry) as a terrorism expert.

So then named WP expert source, who are you?

[Nick Danger]

What's your pay grade, Nick?

Are you paying attention? This guy is accusing the President of the United States of treason. He's being really weasely about it, but that's what he's doing.

It isn't Rove who blocks "these concerns." It's the President. Are you getting that? Not only that, but when push comes to shove, the PRESIDENT jumps down people's throats about being racist. That isn't just some act that Grover Norquist puts on; it's Bush policy. Capice? "And furthermore, that evil Grover Norquist also...."

"Grover's donor," whom "Grover" made chairman of the Islamic Institute, is a guy who's known Bush since Harkin Energy days. Ding ding ding. Hello? This is not "Grover's donor." This is "Bush's investor," who had 17% of Harkin Energy, way back when. Who do you think called whom to get that guy named chairman of the Islamic Institute? Which way are the Moslems flowing? Is Grover placing them in the White House, or is "the White House" placing them in Grover's shop? And if they're going both ways, what does that tell you? When Mystery Correspondent drags that guy into the mud with the terrorists, he makes sure to tell us that it's all about Grover Norquist... as the knife slips quietly into Bush.

If you think about it, there is an alternate explanation that fits these facts that does not require two lifelong conservative activists to suddenly turn and sell out their country for money that neither one of them needs. Instead it requires that there be such a thing as strategery. I like that hypothesis better. One hazard of the analytics business is that you can get so bogged down in the twigs that you can't even see the trees, let alone the forest. I never let that happen. But I've seen it happen, and I think I'm seeing it here.

[Trollstomper]

see brackets [[ ]] for my responses:


Posted by Nick Danger to Trollstomper
On News/Activism 12/16/2003 7:46:01 PM PST #672 of 672

the rest is your smoke.
No, I think you brought enough smoke for both of us. Let's have another toke of this stuff:


Last,in this same vein: the same is true of Grover's donor and his successor as Islamic Insitute chairman, Talaat Othman. Othman is an old Bush family friend, so much so that he is invested for 17 % of W's oil company, Harken Energy, on behalf of his Saudi boss gigilionaire Sheikh Baksh. Othman was appointed to the Texas State Utilities commission [[by Gov Bush, yes]], even though he lives in Illinois. Othman also gave the invocation at the GOP 2000 convention (the first Muslim at either Party's convention, and possibly at Grover's suggestion)

Enough with the innuendo,[[just facts, already public in nice triple fact-check and lawyered places like the Wall Street Journal, see Sabertooth's earlier post for more of same.]] and enough with the "Grover did it." [[ He did; and yes it's "enough"]] Here you bring us an "old Bush family friend," that [[ what is this? Grover Grover Grover ]]who was appointed to the Texas State Utilities Commission -- [[and this?? another redoubt of Norquist's power, I'm sure ]]-- and who was invested in, and on the board of, Harkin Energy...[[in your zeal for ellipses you left out the Saudi partner of Bin Mahfouz whose money it is, why??]] which was [[ I will say Grover when it's Grover, don't worry; you appear to be the one with the phobias: Grover Norquist's]] W's oil company, and who gave the invocation [[ditto: Grover Grover Grover ?? ]]at the GOP convention
that nominated an old family friend of his, who today is the President of the United States.

OK, so here's Grover again, messing around with another one of them thar Muslims, taking money from him and making him chairman of the Islamic Institute. [[I don't know who made him chairman and I therefor did not say, so why do you?]]

In the next paragraph, this here Muslim is gonna get mixed up with raids and terrorism charges and all kinds of bad stuff, ending on the note that "this Othman guy joins the Board of a fund run by a terrorist finance wiz, who also funded Sami Al Arian." [[ again, your elliptical zeal cause you to leave out the little item about also funding Grover.]]

We interrupt this program to remind our audience that we are talking here about an old Bush family friend, a man who served on the board of directors of the President's oil company, and who is now being presented to us as another one of those shady Muslim types that Grover Norquist hangs out with. [[Point is that Othman, like George Salem who you curiously leave out are indeed friends and are linked however you'd like to view it to terror groups,and nobody on staff wants to get on that trail becasue they know where it will wind up, both re Saudi policy, Bush and having to explain why someone very big made a serious string of mistakes and compounded them by not acting when told again and again. That is one of Washinton's fatal flaws, the "coverup" mentality; a precursor of which is the "shoot the messenger" tic. Ya' know?]]

(why did you leave out Salem from you rewite of my posting? Is it b/c he really was the lawyer for a terrorist fund, and he really did deliver $250k for the campaign,and he really is an old Bush 1 person and he really was head of Arab-Americans for Bush, and he really did give a little money to Grover and all that is a little harder for you to dismiss than b/c you don't know as much about Mirza? Same question re James A. Baker 111, lawyer for Sauds against 9/11 Victims Families case and then appointed last week for Iraq.) ]]

Now I didn't make any of that stuff up. You wrote it. [[No,actually you made it all up]] You dragged the guy in here, you taped him to Grover Norquist, [[Actually, they "taped" themselves together and they "sat" themselves, quite literally, now that you mention it, next to "the terrorist bombers']] and you set the two of them next to the terrorist bombers. Only somewhere along the way you accidentally mentioned that this guy goes way back with the Bushes and probably knew Dubya before either one of them ever heard of Grover Norquist. [[ Not accidental, but in reply to the earlier query as to why people who are senior White House staff have conjectured that nobody is willing to take this up with Rove. I gave two real and rather obvious examples that I was given by them and researched to verify details, and are quite known actually. People almost always protect in this way, Doesn't mean it isn't bad, can't be observed, can't be used as a cutionary tale before there are more, etc. Most smart people try to avoid even the appearance of such connections when they are in such abundance. IN Salem's case: go announce his client as a terrorist org. that is so bad that you need to announce its closing personally, but take money from it's lawyer, and get him on an advisory board for Arab/Muslim civil rights at the Justice Dept, and people begin to wonder. Reasonable people.]]

So once again: what is the game here, Jack? Are you accusing the President of the United States of something, or are you not? [[ Did I?, No. ]] You just dragged us through the same sort of associations (old family friend, on the board, invested money in) and the same sort of links to terrorists (Mirza, Ptech, MENA, terrorist finance wiz) that you've been pounding Grover Norquist with, only this time it's all about the President. [[No, again, it's about Rove and Grover and Muslims and Arabs with previously known and subsequently increasingly proven and prosecuted terrorist connections, and how these things combine, under the President's name and roof, to endanger him and the rest of us. At least 6, that I know of, up to this point, of the Muslim people/groups thus brought into the President, as an admitted result of Grover's scheme, have been arrested, charged and are on their way clearly to convictions for terrorism. How many would you like it to be before you figure this out? In the coming months, and in the course of these vry trials, many more associated with this "outreach effort" and with funding Norquist institute will be similarly arrested, charged and doubtless convicted of terrorism. You can learn about it now or learn about it later, I don't care in your case. I do care about the President's case and the campaign's and the country's. This will be a jucier story as the numbers mount of course. It may already set the record for WH known association with terrorists, but soon it will exceed the Clinton's record for known association with Chinese crooks and spies. And we all remember how that turned out. ]]

Based on information that you brought in here, rolled up and lit or otherwise, we can fairly describe this guy as being on the board of both the President's company [[ well, actually owning a large share of it and being on the audit committee and being a family friend ,etc. --who by the way out of deference to that relationship should have the temerity to turn down offers from terror funders ]] and "a fund run by a terrorist finance wiz, who also funded Sami Al Arian." [[ and illegally did business with a deignated terrorist in the Boston investment, not to mention his other raided funds and companies --- all of which are a related , RICO-style enterprise, designed exclusively to raise , layer, park and transfer terror money and terrorists. This is not an open public fund, none of the investments are innocent of terror nexis, by design and definition. Just as no one walks in from the street to any of the GreenQuest raided SAAR/SAFA entities and ask for or receives a "grant" -- only related entities (again, RICO prosecution) like Sami, and the off-shore terror charities. So how come Grover/Saffuri get seed money from these entities in the multiple tens of thousands, starting in 1999? ]]

That's heavy stuff. Remind me again why you're going after Grover Norquist. It seems to me that you nailed the President [[No]] in exactly the same way you nailed Grover Norquist. [[Norquist nailed himself, as most people see. ]] If a guy who was once appointed to the Texas Utilities Commission is suddenly appointed the chairman of Grover's Institute, it's a reasonable question to ask which way the Muslims are flowing. So what's the deal here? Are you afraid that if you go around making these kinds of charges against Bush, that people will dismiss you as a nut? [[No, I'm afraid if you keep ignoring and twisting all facts and responses to come up with this silliness people will dismiss you as the Grover equivalent of the head of the Michael Jackson Fan Club ]] So you make them against Norquist because most people don't know who Norquist is? [[a. Everyone in DC and the media, and increasingly the FBI/DOJ, know who Norquist is; b.) Grover is responsible and must and will be held to be so. If you don't think so then you should be in the other movement, or its Party, because abdication of personal responsibility, the embrace of moral relativeness, the defense of "judge me by what I meant, not what I did" and the agitprop of smearing all opponents as "racists and bigots" are their spleen and spore. You could do yeoman press work for them.

What good will that do? The Republic is in peril. If the President has guys who associate with Muslim terrorists in his inner circle [[Yes, not to mention a in few photos in the Oval Office and other places]], and he is telling people like Grover Norquist to appoint them to high positions in his Institute,[[Again nothing of the kind was said or implied, only inferred by your fevered self]] then the Grover Norquist problem can be moved to the back burner for a bit. You seem to have this fixation on taking out [[STOPPING]] Grover Norquist when your own data points to A Much Larger Problem. [[I have said along this thread that there is a much bigger problem which is the Saudi and Islamist effort and money and the American default setting toward SA. ]]

I would like to ask this question again: Are you sure there isn't something going on here that's above your pay grade?

[[ What do you think my "pay grade" is. And mightn't you be surprised? I think it's more a matter of gray matter than green in this case anyway. ]]

[[By the way, no response on the Secret Service and AlArian/Rove/Grover/ mau-mau incident answer? Cat got your tongue or did your mouse lead you to the slew of stories that say what I said? ]]

[Trollstomper]

check out the Post on that since 9/11, write down the names and start tyring to figure it out. Let's see how smart you really are.

[FreeReign]

l-Najjar was jailed in 1997 and deported last year after a lengthy battle over secret evidence.

Norquist, the conservative libertarian that he is, apparently doesn't like the "secret evidence" thingy. Neither does Bob Barr. Does that make them both terrorist sympathizers? I don't think so. Does that make Norquist anti-Israel? I don't think so although, I believe he is very naive to the dangers we face and to the compromises we must make in the war on terrorism -- during the war on terrorism.

Additionally, similar to the Islamic Institute, Norquist helped build and worked with the conservative Jewish organization Torward Tradition in the mid-ninties. His purpose was to organize conservative Jews. And before that, Grover Norquist worked with Ralph Reid as they worked for Pat Roberson and Jerry Falwell to organize Christian conservatives. Now he attempts to do the same thing with the Islamic Institute and all hell breaks lose.

So what we have here is a guy -- Norquist -- who believes that a good way to organize conservatives and to promote conservatism is through conservative religious organizations, whether it be Christian, Jewish or Muslim. And what we have here is a guy who believes in the strict adherence to the constitution -- even during war times. Thus his position on Muslims, secret evidence and immigrant deportation -- Al-Najjir -- and thus his seeming oblivious attitude torwards the gathering storm and the gathering evidence around him about a handful of extremists that have come into contact with him.

Does this make him a terrorist sympathizer, a traitor to this country and somebody who is anti-Israel.

IMV -- NO, but it does make him any enemy of those who wish to see conservatives of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions not organize.

That IMV is the reason behind the attempted infiltration of Al-Arian and Awad and the others into the AMC and their attempts to infiltrate the Islamic Institute. It is an attempt to discredit those organization to stop religious conservatism of all types from organizing and gaining power and by the looks of this thread they may have succeeded.

[FreeReign]

That IMV is the reason behind the attempted infiltration of Al-Arian and Awad and the others into the AMC and their attempts to infiltrate the Islamic Institute. It is an attempt to discredit those organization to stop religious conservatism of all types from organizing and gaining power and by the looks of this thread they may have succeeded.

I might add, the current president who is after all the one in charge here doesn't back down from attempted dsitruptions of his foreign policy. Whether it be Israel/Palistine, whether it be the resistance fighting of a few in Iraq or whether it be the attempted infiltration of his attempted puny little outreach program to conservative Muslims.

Expect to see Grover and this outreach to continue and expect to see any terrorists who may try to infiltrate their way in, get shown the legal options.

[Trollstomper]

Yes he did, read the article, follow the footnotes. You do lesson one, and then you might get help with lesson two, okie-dokey? Beyond that I can supply you with a page or two on each one, but not at the moment b/c time. Mahboob Kahn hosted Bin LAden's mentor and number two in AQ, twice; he set up a number of radcial groups as mentioned above in this thread and was a cofounder and the Western Division director of ISNA, the main Wahhabi Mosque operation in the US; the elder Tulbah was the treasurer of the Great Houston Islamic center a combine of nearly 30 entities, whose relgious teaching is controlled by a 3 or 5 member council, two of whose members, at least, maintain/contributed to pro-AlQaeda websites; this is one of the many metrics one uses to identify salafiya groups. That's the skinny.

FYI, He did't charge. He stated. This has been dealt with before, so when you are finished reading the Gaffney , you can read the thread. You can also read Keene and Weyrich and others on Grover's charge on this re "racism and bigotry" rather than him instead addressing the facts. Grover took it into the gutter to change the story so that no one would talk about Gaffney's obvious main point which was the atrocious judgment being consistently exhibited in the choices of Muslim groups to bring into the Administrations. As quickly became more evident via handcuffs, there have been nothing but troubling, not to say felonious, emanations from this clever scheme. How Suhail Khan or Ali Tulbah got the jobs, who feeds them people, who protects their political flank, and yes, even who their fathers were/are was only a sidebar to the main issue and everyone knows it. If I were Frank, I wouldn't have set myself by mentioning the fathers, knowing Grover as we do, but there it is. And as you can discover, both fathers Wahhabi/Islamist associations, to put it mildly, are
very much real.