Posted on 12/01/2003 4:56:31 PM PST by blam
Ferocious gun battle that left no bodies
(Filed: 02/12/2003)
Americans say 54 attackers died in the fiercest engagement since the war ended while Iraqis insist that eight civilians were killed by reckless US fire, writes Jack Fairweather
Wrecked cars and bullet-riddled shopfronts testified to the battle. But in the streets of Samarra yesterday there was little evidence of what the Americans described as the biggest engagement since the end of the Iraqi war.
Burned out cars following the fighting in Samarra, north of Baghdad
US forces insisted they had killed 54 Iraqi attackers after two of their armoured convoys came under co-ordinated attack while delivering new currency to local banks on Sunday. But local people and a hospital doctor reported only eight dead, who they insisted were mainly civilians, including an Iranian pilgrim.
It was impossible to reconcile the two versions of the battle. The US military acknowledged that the death toll was estimated - rather than confirmed - on the debriefings of soldiers and no bodies had been collected.
The firefight began at 1.20pm on Sunday when the convoys entered the city from separate locations carrying money for a currency exchange programme. Following a previous withdrawal agreement by US forces, they were the first coalition vehicles to enter the city centre in over a week.
Following recent attacks, the convoy's jeeps and humvees were escorted by tanks and armoured personnel carriers.
Their caution proved well-founded. One convoy was hit by a roadside bomb shortly after entering the town, Iraqi witnesses said, although it went on to the bank.
At 1.30pm, soldiers began delivering three billion Iraqi dinars (more than £100,000) of new currency to the Rafidain bank in the town centre. A cordon of tanks and soldiers on rooftops were on alert.
As both convoys prepared to leave, the Fedayeen, a militia formed by Saddam Hussein, attacked with rocket-propelled grenades, mortar and small arms fire from other rooftops.
At the second bank on the edge of the commercial district, insurgents leapt from cover firing rockets, a witness said. A spokesman for the 4th Infantry Division said: "American soldiers were struck by heavy and sustained fire from separate locations. US soldiers returned fire and the attackers were overwhelmed."
The attacks lasted less than 20 minutes, with troops rapidly supported by four Apache attack helicopters. The US military said that two teams of up to 30 fedayeen were involved.
Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, a US military spokesman, said one person was detained.
Asked about the bodies of the 54 militants said to have been killed, he said: "I would suspect that the enemy would have carried them away and brought them back to where their initial base was."
Though the attack was repulsed, US officers said it marked a new stage in the insurgency, showing greater levels of co-ordination.
Captain Andy Deponai, whose tank was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade (RPG), said: "Up to now you've seen a progression. Initially, it was hit and run, single RPG shots on patrols, then they started doing volley fire, multiple RPG ambushes, and now this is the first well co-ordinated one.
"Here it seems they had the training to stand and fight."
On the streets of Samarra yesterday shoppers were out in force and the US military had retreated again. At the Rafidain bank, the firefight had left several wrecked cars, a smattering of bullet holes in shopfronts and one building damaged by small arms fire.
Down a narrow side alley facing the bank stood three wrecked cars, two struck by tank rounds, the third dotted with bullet holes. There was no obvious sign that anyone had been in the vehicles.
Omar Mehdi, a 27-year-old teacher who lives in the street, said he had parked the car there 30 minutes before the attack.
His father forlornly held up the burnt cinders of a copy of the Koran that had been on the dashboard of the car. "No one was killed in the car, thank God," he said.
Outside the mosque that stands at one end of the street, a tank round had landed on a Mitsubishi car. According to Iraqis an Iranian pilgrim and two other people were killed.
"We heard the shooting and everyone began running, there was a terrible traffic jam and people were desperately trying to get out of their cars to escape," said one local shopkeeper.
At the scene of the second attack, a clothes shop two hundred yards away had been burnt out, although no one was injured. Two nearby buildings had also been targeted by American tank gunners.
The attacks had left an ugly mood in the town, where locals were unanimous in condemning indiscriminate firing by the Americans.
"They are the most malicious people. They are not educated, they are barbarians. They said they would bring us democracy but they scare women and children. We will resist them to the depth of our soul," said Rashid Jasem, 38, a hardware shop owner, whose store was peppered with bullet holes.
Iraqi witnesses claimed that tanks fired a round at workers from a drug factory as they left work at 2.00pm. One woman was killed and 18 injured. A crater from the shell and a pool of blood remained nearby.
They said four cars were also hit in the parking area of the hospital and a nearby mosque was shelled, killing two. Dr Faleh Hassan Asamara, on duty at the hospital, said: "The Americans have done a lot of shooting but I don't think the number of dead they claimed were killed."
That is how the Marines do it. That is why we are sending them back.
IMO, The problem is that we can't do too much that turns the citizens against us. It's not so much that they'll take up arms against us en masse (although a certain percentage of them will) if we hurt 'em too much: It's more that they will become sympathetic to the resistance (or whatever you want to call them) and both provide them varying degrees of aid and fail to warn us of impending attacks. Why didn't any of the locals warn us about this attack? With as many people involved as we are being told, it would be hard for them to go unnoticed. With warning we could have ambushed them first.
I posted this on the other thread, when you get some action you shoot back until the tracers go away, a line grunt is the worse person to do an after action, you know little beyond a couple of yards to your left and right.
Now you know why his store was "peppered with bullet holes." Perhaps they should have destroyed a fourth building used by insurgents.
Becki
CRY ME A RIVER!!!
I don't know if they still do, but they used to make a beehive for a 105 recoilless ( I think I'm rememering the calibre correctly, one of those big cannon jobs mounted on the back of a jeep). Saw one used against some NVA once. No return fire.
Of course not. And I have never been one to say MOAB the whole place. I don't think that way.
That said, the Pentegon reports of the action did state that they had destroyed three buildings being used by the insurgents. By the man's own words, he certainly sounds like one to me.
Becki
Yep, something is wrong here. It's your assumption that there aren't a bunch of dead Iraqis because the Iraqis say there aren't any. Do you expect the people in this openly pro-Saddam town to admit to a huge defeat??? Don't you think it's a teensy tiny bit suspicious that the hospital's doctor reported that "mainly civilians" were killed? Who was firing the AK-47s and RPGs? They all got away?
I guess you simply toss aside the quotes from our own soldiers that the enemy "had the training to stand and fight". Our guys engaged them at close range, close enough to see hits. Are our soldiers in on this con job?
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