Posted on 11/22/2003 9:36:29 AM PST by keving
Did anyone see the show on the History Channel about the archiving of the Zapruder film?
"Image of an Assassination"
Saturday, November 22 @ 8am ET/PT
On November 22, 1963, Dallas dress manufacturer Abraham Zapruder brought his movie camera to film President John F. Kennedy's motorcade for his grandchildren. As it turned out, Zapruder captured one of the 20th century's most important documents. In 1997, two media companies created a digital replica of the original, which is presented here, along with Zapruder's business associates, photography experts, and National Archives employees, who piece together the history of the crucial 26-second film. TV PG-V
It was very interesting. The most revealing part was that the frames that claim to be the Zapruder film are cropped copies of the original (1/3 to 1/2 screen).
The best part of the film is that the "fatal" blow when Kennedy's head explodes is cleary shown traveling from the side of the limo - grassy knoll area.
The "expanded" version or original version of the film included the trajectory of the bullet which could not be indicated on the cropped photo version.
Please view programs - it is very clear.
(Excerpt) Read more at historychannel.com ...
Sorry about your accident I hope you are well.
That being said, it makes perfect sense to anyone who has studied the matter.
Have you ever been involved in the procedure to remove a bullet from a human body? Especially one that has struck bone? Or one that hit or grazed more than one bone?
There is almost nothing left of those bullets original shape. Nothing! A penny ran over by a train has more form than a bullet striking bone.
The "deformed" bullet in your picture looks like it was dug out of a dirt and straw backstop at a firing range. Come to my ER and I'll show you bullets from a body.
You are right in your analysis but wrong in your conclusion.
The person only opined on the nature of the bullet coming from behind, and not on any other matter.
The truth is, the bullet clearly does come from behind and exits out of the front, leaving a pretty big hole in JFK's face.
But that doesn't mean the magic bullet found on the stretecher is legit, or anything else in the Warrens findings are legit. It is a reasonable conclusion to draw from watching the film.
Coming to that conclusion does not mean that one accepts all the conclusions of the Warren report, or the legitimacy of the pristine bullet, at all. I have no idea what makes you think it would.
The spray out the front of his head is an exit wound.
I haven't noticed his facial distortions before. I'll look for that the next time, if I ever do, watch it.
If there was a second gunman, his only contribution was a blown out piece of concrete in the curb.
I didn't realize the 6.5 mm bullet was 161 grains. Pretty heavy for that caliber. It would have trememdous penetration and could easily go through several people (vis a vis striking Kennedy and Connelly twice ).
Yawn. Let's check Hathcock's actual statement first, shall we?
"I dont know how many times we tried it, but we couldnt duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did."Note he specifically speaks of what "the Warren Commission said". The Warren Commission was mistaken about how quickly the shots were fired. They thought the shots were fired in an elapsed time of between 4.8 and 5.6 seconds.
The problem with trying to reproduce *that* scenario is that the Warren Commission was wrong. Later analysis of the Zapruder film and other evidence clearly indicates that the three shots occurred over an elapsed time of 8.3 seconds. The first shot was fired, then 3.5 seconds later the second shot was fired, and then 4.8 seconds later the third shot was fired.
Maybe Hathcock had trouble doing the shots in 4.8 seconds, but even middling marksmen could have made them in 8.3 seconds -- and have.
CBS, for example, reconstructed the shooting for a 1975 documentary. Eleven volunteer marksmen took turns firing three bullets at a moving target. None of them had practice with the Carcano's bolt action, as Osald had had almost daily in New Orleans. Yet the average performance was 5.6 seconds, with two out of three hits on the target.
Other reconstructions by other groups have achieved similar results. Hell, *I* could have made those shots. With the 4X scope Oswald was using, JFK was an effective 25 yards away at the time of the shots -- an easy shot with a rifle, especially when braced on boxes as Oswald's rifle was. Furthermore, while it's true the car was moving, it was not moving very fast, and it was moving directly *away* from Oswald, reducing its apparent motion to almost zero. And it helps that shooting from an elevation tends to cause a shot to land high, while the motion of the car would have caused an unlead shot to land low -- each effect would help to cancel the other.
Any conspiracy theorist who claims that the shots were "impossible" or "have never been duplicated" is simply grossly misinformed.
First shot at c. frame 161, third shot at frame 313. 152 frames elapse. Divide by the 18.3 f/sec of Zaprider's camera gives 8.3 seconds.
6 SECONDS. One shot every two seconds
NO. The sequence runs load: aim: fire: f.161
(clock starts running)
eject: load: aim: fire: f.224
eject: load: aim: fire: f.313
{clock stopped)
cycles are 3.4 and 4.9 secs
I remember seeing that . I thought it was circa 1970 and said so in a post yesterday.
The shooters duplicated the feat, time and target, from the correct angle, etc.
It was Oswald, alone.
The WC wrong about something? Whoa! Watch out now. A forbidden comment.
What else were they wrong about, I wonder...
(I can't answer to the timing and such that you're talking about, others probably will though. But thanks for that info.)
No, but Dr. Martin Fackler, president of the International Wound Ballistics Association has -- and most likely far more than you'll ever see -- so I'll defer to his expertise on this matter.
After much study on the matter, he declares to condition of the Parkland hospital bullet to be "entirely consistent" the bullet that caused the wounds of JFK and Gov. Connally. "It is a long bullet and I would expect it to be flattened on the side, just like you had squeezed it in a vice."
There is almost nothing left of those bullets original shape. Nothing! A penny ran over by a train has more form than a bullet striking bone.
Uh huh... Bullet fired through thick layers of wet newspaper (22 inches of penetration):
Bullet fired through a cow-knuckle bone (at 1140 fps) under 4 inches of wet newspaper:
Doesn't look like a penny-on-a-railroad-track to me.
More to the point, Dr. Fackler and Failure Analaysis did tests to determine the actual amount of deformation on Carcano rounds under conditions similar to the JFK shooting.
Results of these and other actual firing tests: A Carcano bullet passing through Kennedy's neck at full velocity (it hit no bone passing through JFK) was not deformed at all after passing through an appropriate amount of goat skin and meat. Another shot at full velocity (which exceeded the case for Connally, the bullet would have lost velocity passing through JFK) at an anesthetized goat striking the rib of the goat had only a slight flattening, similar to CE 399, the not-so-pristine bullet. Wait, I thought you said that any bullet striking or even grazing bone would have "nothing left" of its original shape"... Hmm.
After passing through JFK's neck and Connally's chest and grazing his rib, the bullet would have a lowered remaining velocity. Tests using a Carcano bullet at a reduced 1100 feet per second (consistent with the expedted velocity loss -- actually best estimates are 900fps) into the wrist of a cadaver resulted in a bullet that was *non-deformed* and was *not flattened in the least*, and had nowhere near the level of damage of CE 399.
The 6.5mm Carcano round is a big, heavy bullet, and it had traversed the thicknesses of *two* bodies before it struck any bone. I don't doubt that you see a lot of fragmented bullets, but I doubt that you see many which have had as much chance to be decelerated before they first contact any.
The "deformed" bullet in your picture looks like it was dug out of a dirt and straw backstop at a firing range. Come to my ER and I'll show you bullets from a body.
I accept your invitation. In which ER do you practice?
She's a proven liar. her testimomy is worthless.
She told the Warren Commission (and confirmed to numerous interviwers over the years) that she lead the Charge up The Grassy Knoll when she dashed across the street immediately after Kennedy's car passed. "When I ran across the street the first motor cycle that was right behind nearly hit me".
Yet when footage of the incident was shown on TV 10 years ago, she could be clearly seen standing still on the opposite side of the street to the grassy knoll while the entire motorcade right up to the final press bus passed.
Then she starts to follow the mob to the Grassy Knoll.
While it's true that the simple momentum of a bullet will tend to push the target in the direction of its motion (although nowhere near as much as most people -- or Hollywood -- imagine, since the bullet may be fast, but it's quite light in comparison to the body it strikes), and while it's true that matter ejected from the site of the exit wound can also propel the body *backwards* towards the direction of the shot, both of these are minor compared to the larger issue.
The larger issue is that when the brain gets destroyed by massive trauma, the body will jerk in a *completely unpredictable* manner due to the effect of the trauma on the remaining brain/spinal/nerve tissues. The direction of JFK's motion after the head shot is almost surely determined primarily by reflexive spasmodic jerking of the body due to the destruction of much of the brain, and as such nothing can be drawn about the angle of the shot from the subsequent motion of the body.
Also note that when you watch the Zapruder film, there seems to be a short but noticeable delay between the moment of the "blood spray" and the moment the head/body begins to actually move backwards, constent with a reflex action and not consistent with imparted momentum (which is imparted instantaneously).
I remember seeing this too.
I've been waiting for 12 years now ....
but not another word was ever heard about it.
This was not the first time that someone
has stepped up to say that they had info that would
discredit the Obviously Bogus Warren Report....
and then... would Never be heard from again !
After all of the revelations about that event..
I have been amazed this week by the number of Freepers
that Still maintain that Oswald...was the Lone GunMan !
They will not be convinced otherwise untill.....
Dan Blather , Tom BrokeJaw , or Peter****Jennings..
tell them to !!
.....THUNDER.....
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