Lt. Col. Allen B. West

Washington Times ^ | November 6, 2003 | Stanley SrA. USAF 91-95

[Calpernia]

Letters To Leaders

All messages are published with permission of the sender. The general topic of this message is Defense/Military:

Subject: Lt. Col. Allen B. West

To: Sen. Charles Schumer

November 6, 2003

Sir,

With all due respect, this is the very first time I have ever written to a Senator. With regards to this fine officer and the plight he is in. I have attached the article below if you are unaware of his situation. As an American, and as a veteran myself, I am utterly disgusted, shocked, and ashamed that our Army is harassing this man and is even considering a court martial. These same people who are requesting this mans court martial would probably have something quite different to say if it were their loved ones lives who were saved by this mans actions. I can not express to you how utterly disgusted and extremely angry I am at this outrageous and unjust treatment of an officer who saves lives by using such tender tactics as these to gain information from an enemy who does not abide by, or respect any code, or human right. I mean are you kidding me! So he fired a weapon near his head and made a threat, BIG DEAL! LIVES WERE SAVED!!!! Hello? Is this thing on? Are you hearing me!!! Are we such a nation of weaklings that we would have our interrogators offer prisoners candy popcorn and maybe a comfortable seat on the couch while they decide if they want to cooperate or not! Consider the tactics of our enemy, yeah, I won't even go there as they are too gruesome and inhumane to even mention. This absolutely ludicrous and unjust action being considered against this American fighting man who saves lives and who gave so many years of his life in that effort is an abhorrent black mark on the face of what is increasingly becoming and embarrassing country to have sworn my allegiance to. And no, I am not ashamed of our president and his decision to go to war. I am NOT one of those. No, in fact I LOVE our president and I am all for sending a message to radical religious groups who have committed so many blatant acts of war against our country in the name of their religion. No Sir, what makes me ashamed is to read of our nation treating it's heroes, like this Man Col. West, like a criminal when his only action was to save lives. It sickens me. Absolutely sickens me and almost makes me wish I had never served. Almost. Let me just leave you with this last thought so that you understand. I say almost as I never served in our country's armed services for you, or any fed. No government agenda was ever a motivating factor in my serving. As though I was subordinate to the government and obeyed the orders thereof, my service was to the people who had gone before me and stood and fought and died for my right to impart this to you now. It is for their sake, and for their honor that I did serve. And it is for their sake, and for their honor that I am still proud to be an American and I will still stand and fight should my country call me to do so. I do not know how to make this any more plain to you Sir, this is an injustice that needs to be rectified. PLEASE do what you can on this honorable mans behalf. Also, thank you Sir for having taken the time.

Sincerely Stanley SrA. USAF 91-95

'Heroic' officer clings to faith Facing charges after foiling ambush plot, 'devastating' to be regarded as a criminal

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35447

Guilderland , NY

[Poohbah]

When you compared me to Bill Clinton (even with the incredibly disingenuous disclaimer), you went over the line, dirtbag.

[Conspiracy Guy]

If I was comparing you in whole, there would have been no disclaimer.

[VRWCmember]

Actually Poohbah, flurry has not called you a single name, yet you have called him "dirtbag" amongh other things.

[Poohbah]

Actually Poohbah, flurry has not called you a single name, yet you have called him "dirtbag" amongh other things.

OK. Mentioning me as being equally undesirable as Clinton is OK, but me calling him the title he's earned with that remark isn't.

I guess that Clintonian word-parsing makes beyond-the-pale insults acceptable in your world.

In that light...I shan't say what I think of you.

[VRWCmember]

When you compared me to Bill Clinton (even with the incredibly disingenuous disclaimer), you went over the line, dirtbag.

What did flurry say:

Yes details may arise that will change some minds. I still would rather serve by his side than Bill Clinton's side or by your side. No I am not accusing you of being a Clinton supporter.

You responded by calling him a vile piece of filth, and dirtbag, and "Foxtrot Oscar" (not sure what FO stands for here).

So far, the primary differences between the two of you (both opinionated and tough posters) are that
(1) you were rather quick to launch into name-calling; and
(2) if faced with the dilemma faced by Col West you would abide by the rules even if that meant that your men would almost certainly be killed by another ambush and the perpetrators would remain free to kill even more men after that.

[Pukin Dog]

Have you never heard of a moral dilemma? A lot of people feel that Lt. Col. West faced one.

Do you mind if I respond to you as well?

You are right that a lot of people feel that Col. West faced a moral dilemma. The fact is, everyone who feels that way is completely wrong. The UCMJ exists to prevent personal feelings from getting in the way of an officer or soldier carrying out their sworn duty. Civilians continue to make the mistake of looking through the prism of public society when considering military procedure. The military is NOT a democracy. It is a meritorious dictatorship. No one in the military has the right to disobey a lawful order. When in doubt and unsure, you carry it out, and report your objections AFTER the fact. If you do not carry out an order you feel is unlawful, and you are wrong, you face Court Martial. It is very simple.

Yes, there are stupid laws. Stupid laws are changed, when soldiers prove them stupid through carrying them out anyway to a negative conclusion. They do not get changed by the refusal of one Officer to carry out those laws.

Judge Moore was wrong for almost the same reason. It was not his choice to make in deciding not to obey a judicated law. As an officer of the court, he has a deeper responsibility to uphold and obey laws, even those he does not agree with. There will always be conflicts between the laws of man vs the laws of our God.

Col. West knowingly broke a law, although for good reason. He made a choice and should suffer for it, because that choice had already been made for him, and he failed his duty.

[MeekOneGOP]

Am I vile and despicable.

Nope !

Gotta run some errands. See ya later on ...

[VRWCmember]

OK. Mentioning me as being equally undesirable as Clinton is OK, but me calling him the title he's earned with that remark isn't.

Knowing flurry's posting personality, I took his comment not as calling you "equally undesirable" but rather to state that he would prefer to have Col West fighting by his side than either one of you. If you want to take that as calling you "equally undesirable" or as "comparing you to clinton" then that is your prerogative. If you consider his comment a "beyond-the-pale insult" then I guess I understand why you jumped into name-calling mode so quickly. Of course, the name-calling does make your argument appear weaker.

[Poohbah]

if faced with the dilemma faced by Col West you would abide by the rules even if that meant that your men would almost certainly be killed by another ambush and the perpetrators would remain free to kill even more men after that.

That claim keeps getting repeated.

It has NOT been demonstrated to be factual at all. And what has come out indicates that it is, indeed, NOT factual, and that there was not an imminent danger of ambush. If being informed that an ambush was likely was insufficient to allow this officer to take countermeasures to make any such effort much less likely to succeed, then he should be relieved for tactical incompetence.

Yeah, I would obey the orders given me by my superiors. Especially if I am expecting my men to obey the orders I give them, and I am punishing violations of those orders.

It is absolutely surreal to see "conservatives" arguing that obeying orders has become optional for officers if the officer is sufficiently persuasive in WND.

[Poohbah]

Sorry, I expect more out people than that garbage. The fact that you do not speaks far more of you than it does of me.

[VRWCmember]

Civilians continue to make the mistake of looking through the prism of public society when considering military procedure. The military is NOT a democracy. It is a meritorious dictatorship. No one in the military has the right to disobey a lawful order. When in doubt and unsure, you carry it out, and report your objections AFTER the fact. If you do not carry out an order you feel is unlawful, and you are wrong, you face Court Martial. It is very simple.

And it is also a mistake to look at this entire situation like a traditional war against a military enemy rather than as an engagement against a bunch of terrorist thugs. These people are not "prisoners of war"; they are unlawful enemy combatants and part of a terrorist organization that at all times constitutes and immediate and credible threat to the safety of the troops.

In a situation where the leadership there was aware of an impending ambush and other attacks, and knew that the prisoner knew the details, it was imperative that they took necessary actions to protect the troops. The Colonel didn't use torture, he used intimidation. Did he go too far? I'm not sure. If he had started cutting off body parts and tossing them into vats of pork by-product waste, that might have been "going too far" but I don't know for sure. What I do know is that he got the information without torturing or killing a slimebag that would have been happy to torture our troops if given the opportunity. He saved the lives of troops under his command with these actions.

[Laura Earl]

Not at all...but are you trying to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person again? That's what it looks like to me!

[Laura Earl]

Of course, the name-calling does make your argument appear weaker.

As if it needs any help looking weaker.

[The Mayor]

bookmarked for content

[Conspiracy Guy]

I appreciate what you're saying. I was under UCMJ in the early 70's when I was in the USAF. I followed orders and I was safe and sound at a SAC base stateside. I had top Secret Clearence and still can't discuss things that have to do with National Security.

Correct the military is not a democracy.

But he has not been convicted yet. He won't be the first person to beat a court marshall if he does.

I hope he beats it and I hope he makes millions on his book and movie rights.

[Conspiracy Guy]

see ya later.

[Pukin Dog]

In a situation where the leadership there was aware of an impending ambush and other attacks, and knew that the prisoner knew the details, it was imperative that they took necessary actions to protect the troops.

There is no proof of this whatsoever. None. Nada. Zilch.

Were there proof, it would still be irrelvent. Col. West is not tasked with the decisions on how this war will be waged, enemy combatants or not. What I am telling you, is that Col West had one duty, follow the rules of the Geneva Convention within the mandates of the UCMJ. No other consideration is proper. It doesnt matter what issue you raise, or conditions you describe. The military is not society, and there was no choice for West to make.

[Pukin Dog]

I hope West serves time. Not much, but some. He needs to become an example to others. Were he a young officer, I would say let him leave the service. As a LT Col, he has no excuse whatsoever. He had previously disciplined other soldiers for breaking the rules, so he had double the responsibility to uphold the UCMJ at all costs. West is no hero. When the Chain of Command breaks down, there are more lives at risk than any West thought he was saving. I would respect the man, had he upon committing his act, turned himself in with an explaination to his superiors, instead of having to have been ratted on. West failed, and regardless of the penalty, that is the message that needs to come out of this.

[Conspiracy Guy]

I'll wait til it's over.

[Calpernia]

I was introduced to you here. Every ounce of respect I had for you is gone.