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The Facts About The Smoking Ban. If you're a business owner or not, this is a must read!
The Facts Online ^ | 11-01-03 | Dave Hitt

Posted on 11/06/2003 7:28:30 AM PST by SheLion

Every company's greatest assets are its customers, because without customers there is no company.
- Michael LeBoeuf

Businesses Harmed by Smoking Bans

Anti-smoking organizations insist that bans are somehow good for people in hospitality businesses. This chart shows otherwise. These businesses have lost a significant portion of their business as a direct result of smoking bans. Many are closed. Many that are still open have told us they doubt they'll survive much longer.

Most of this information comes directly from businesses that have contacted me or my colleagues. Some comes from newspaper articles. Blank spaces in the chart represent data that is unavailable, or that doesn't apply. (For instance, a distributor doesn't receive tips, and many owner-operators of small taverns don't have any employees other than themselves and family members.)


Business Type Of
Business
Closed? Business
Lost
Tips
Lost
Jobs
Lost
City State

 
Crocodile Cafe Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Tempe AZ
Pooch's Easy Street Billiards Pool Hall Closed 100% 100% Tempe AZ
Laurel Bowl Bowling Alley Closed 100% 100% San Luis Obispo CA
385 league bowlers quit when the smoking ban went into effect, with a loss of $200,000. Laurel Bowl had been in business for 37 years before the ban.
Alexander Mackenzie Inn Hotel Not Yet 92% 16 Fort St. John CAN
"Since we were `beaten' into compliance by the WCB, our business has dropped in the lounge from $1,000 a day to $80. "
Beacon Hill Arms Tavern Closed 100% 100% Ottawa CAN
Dave O'Connor, who successfully ran Ottawa's Beacon Hill Arms pub for nine years, said the ban forced him out of business. "From September to February, we lost close to $80,000 in sales"
Bud's Place Tavern Not Yet 23% Cambrage CAN
Gardeli's Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Castlegar CAN
Hemingway's Bar/Restaraunt Not Yet 40% 6 Ottawa CAN
MacKenzie Lounge Tavern Not Yet 80% Yellowknife CAN
Mingles Coffee Shoppe Coffee Shop Closed 100% 100% Kitchener CAN
Rupert Pub Tavern Closed 100% 100% Prince Rupert CAN
Sky Garden Restaurant Closed 100% 100% 6 Ottawa CAN
"It was 100% because of the bylaw. Sales dropped 50%. Our cups of coffee were down 400 to 500 a day, our meals 20 to 30 a day."
The Patch Tavern Not Yet 70% St. Albert CAN
Tubbys Pizza Pizza Parlor Not Yet 20% 2 Crescentwood CAN
Back Stage Cafe Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100% 20 Wilmington DE
Coach House Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100% 8 Wilmington DE
Just Mugs Saloon Tavern Not Yet 33% Bear DE
Naamans Cafe Restaurant Closed 100% 100% 8 Wilmington DE
Elks #1795 Lodge (Private Club) Not Yet 40% 22% Fort Walton FL
"Charity money is down 45%. Our Charities are Kids of Florida and the Veterans. That is who is really getting hurt the most by this!"
Elks #2256 Lodge (Private Club) Not Yet 20% 30% Pensacola Beach FL
"We've lost 70 members because of the ban"
Elks #2273 Lodge (Private Club) Not Yet 60% 60% 1 Plantation FL
Melons Bar & Grill Bar/Restruant Not Yet 50% Port Charlotte FL
The Falls Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Naples FL
"We lost 70 percent of our income," Renzello said. "The law put us out of business." 90 percent of her customers were smokers.
Bart's Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Louisville CO
Bart's had been in operation for nearly 30 years.
Gold Mine Restaraunt Bar/Restaraunt Not Yet 50% 50% 2 Fall River MA
"There should be places for both the smoker and nonsmoker. I do not smoke but you are killing our business!!! "
Buffalo Wings and Beer Bar/Restruant Not Yet 50% Gaithersburg MD
Gentleman Jim's Restaurant Not Yet 40% Gaithersburg MD
J.J. Muldoon's Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 20% Gaithersburg MD
Middlebrook Restaurant and Lounge Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 50% Germantown MD
"I'm so bitter today because I have worked too hard to keep this business going. It's just not fair."
Pelican Pete's Restaurant Not Yet 60% Germantown MD
Tommy Joe's Restaurant Restruant Not Yet 30% Bethesda MD
Nutshell Tavern Tavern Closed 100% 100% Biddeford ME
Village Variety Closed 100% Fryeburg ME
Grandma's Restaraunt Not Yet 33% Cloquet MN
Perkins Restaraunt Not Yet 26% Duluth MN
Aessa Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 35% 6 New York NY
Argyle's EasyStreet Tavern Tavern Not Yet 12% Cortland NY
Athens Cafe Restaurant Not Yet 55% 10 Astoria NY
Blessed Sacrament Church Bingo Not Yet 50% Albany NY
Brazen Head Pub Tavern Not Yet 40% Monroe NY
Brown Shanty Tavern Not Yet 20% 1 Watertown NY
Champions Billiards Cafe Brew Pub/Pool Hall Not Yet 33% Parkville NY
Chili American Legion Post 1830 Private Club Not Yet 70% Scottsville NY
Coleman's Irish Pub Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 19% 4 Syracuse NY
Crossroads Steak House Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Kennedy NY
Delmar Sportsman's Tavern Tavern Not Yet 30% 1 Massena NY
"We had hoped...nonsmokers who haven't been frequenting taverns due to the smoke-filled air would make up for at least some of the financial loss. Unfortunately, at least in our place, this has most definitely not happened. Our sales are at an all time low"
Desperado's Tavern Not Yet 90% Wallkill NY
"I can count on my fingers the people who don't smoke who come in here. The regulars say they won't come."
Dodesters Tavern Not Yet 9% Syracuse NY
Eagle Beverage Company Distributor Not Yet 25% N/A Oswego NY
"Deliveries to pubs and taverns have decreased substantially, greater than 25 percent."
Edigan's Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Binghamton NY
End Zone Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 30% 1 Liverpool NY
Euzkadi Restaurant Not Yet 50% New York NY
Fiddler's Green Tavern Closed 100% 100% New York NY
We have just lost too many customers to this law, which I did not vote for, bar owners did not vote for, bartenders did not vote for, and the public did not vote for."
Finish Line Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 40% 2 Bellerose NY
Fountain Bowl Bowling Alley Not Yet 40% N/A 8 Jamestown NY
Golden Rail Ale House Tavern Not Yet 75% Newburgh NY
Harry's Hanover Square Bar/Restaraunt Closed 100% 100 New York NY
"Overnight, we lost 60 percent of our evening bar trade. For the bar, it was the difference in profit and loss. Sales of expensive cigars had been almost as important as the sales of Scotch" Harry's had been in business for more than thirty years
Holmes & Watson's Tavern Not Yet 30% Troy NY
Hotel McDonald Hotel Not Yet 70% Bath NY
Just One More Tavern Not Yet 30% Bath NY
Liberty Lanes Bowling Not Yet 27% Camden NY
Mama Lena's Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Binghamton NY
Mama Lena's had been in business for more than 40 years.
Mel's Place Tavern Not Yet 78% 100% Falconer NY
"When we bought this place, we throught we were buying our American Dream. We ran it successfully for 10 years. Now the government is stripping us from making a living. "
Middleport Inn Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100% 13 Middleport NY
"This damn state really knows how to kill people's dreams."
Millennium Restaurant Not Yet 40% 3 New York NY
Nibsy's Pub Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 18% Syracuse NY
Rafferty's Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 35% 2 Syracuse NY
Richard's Ole Timer Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 17% 1 Clay NY
Roesch's Tavern Tavern Closed 100% 100% 5 New York NY
This had been a family business for more than a century
Salingers Tavern Not Yet 35% 2 Rochester NY
Sevens Bar Tavern Not Yet 10% Malone NY
Shamrock Tavern Tavern Not Yet 50% Oswego NY
"It's not right. Our livelihood is being taken away."
Slade Restaurant Not Yet 40% New York NY
Slick Willie's Billiard Hall Not Yet 25% Tonawanda NY
Stumble Inn Tavern Closed 100% 100% Champlain NY
Taylor's Trackside Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 50% Remsen NY
Temple Israel Bingo Not Yet 50% Albany NY
According to Herb Holland, some of the regulars told volunteers that they would abstain from playing bingo, to protest the smoking ban. He hasn't seen them since.
The Lilly Pad Tavern Closed 100% 100% Falconer NY
The Lodge at the Lake Inc Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 50% 1 Broadalbin NY
The Loft Tavern Not Yet 30% Frewsburg NY
"Our town has no attractions to draw in outsiders. We have only locals to rely on as patrons and 95% of them smoke. It will be worse when the snow sets in."
The Roadhouse Tavern Not Yet 40% Brewster NY
Thompson Road Tavern Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 25% Syracuse NY
Village Tavern Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 10% Marcellus NY
Bliss' Steak Ranch Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Eugene OR
Closed after 32 years in business
Doc's Pad Tavern Closed 100% 100% 24 Eugene OR
"Let's face it, the economy is horrible. But for us specifically, the smoking ban was the knockout punch." The Olsen family had owned Doc's for 16 years.
Max's Tavern Tavern Closed 100% 100% Eugene OR
The Peacock Tavern Not Yet 40% Corvallis OR
Connor owned the Peacock for years - and says it was the ban that caused him to sell the bar. He says business gross fell from $1.5 million in 1997, the year before the ban went into effect, to $900,000 last year.
China One Restaurant Closed 100% 100 Round Rock TX


CAN=Canada

If your business has been harmed by a smoking ban, or if you know of one that has been, please let us know. If possible, have the owner contact us. Newspaper articles are also welcome. Please include the URL. .

Click here to contact us.

Last Update: Saturday, November 01, 2003

© 2000 - 2003 Dave Hitt

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TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: antismokers; bans; butts; cigarettes; individualliberty; michaeldobbs; niconazis; prohibitionists; pufflist; smokingbans; taxes; tobacco
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To: Liberal Classic; cinFLA
You are correct and our Florida friend is not.

In his comments regarding the Delaware smoking ban he is very lacking in exactly what happened there.

His continual harping on the Delaware law is starting to lead me to believe he thinks the legislature is the way to go as opposed to a biased one-sided funded ballot initiative such as they had in Florida.

Compared to the 5 or so million dollars the anti-smokers spent in Florida, they spent nothing in Delaware. Even with an initial push by Philip Morris against the Florida ban I don't even think 1 million was spent - and PM pulled out of the battle months before it went on the ballot - it was totally a grasssroots effort in the end.

In Delaware it was a total grassroots effort from smokers, and bar and restaurant owners. We were toast - because the anti-smokers had so much money to run newspaper, radio, and TV ads, along with mass mailings and email campaigns. The campaign of lies.
201 posted on 11/06/2003 7:23:49 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: Phantom Lord
It reminds me of Orwell's 1984. Will the jusidictions be using Telescreens?
202 posted on 11/06/2003 7:32:04 PM PST by oldtimer (t)
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To: hotshot
I know we have agreed to disagree on this issue - but I do have to take issue with this particular coment of yours....

Second hand smoke causes asthma.

There is absolutely nothing to back up that statement in the way of scientific proof.

I will not deny that SHS may bring on an asthma attack - but it didn't cause the asthma to begin with.

Just the fact that there are more and more places where no one is going to be exposed to SHS and rates of asthma cases are nearly skyrocketing shows that statement to be false.

I was born in 1960, a time when smoking was much more prevalent than it is now. If exposure to smoking caused asthma, why was I nearly 30 before I ever met anyone who had asthma? Another question, why are so many children being diagnosed with it when the numbers of smoking parents (and particularly pregnant mothers) is on the decline?

203 posted on 11/06/2003 7:36:59 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: Legerdemain
no, but you can't stop me from driving my car on my 500 acres I own....damn, you can't stop my 13 year old kid from driving there either.

I have no intention of depriving you or your son of driveng, just making the point that most of the things we do, are not detailed in the constitution.

204 posted on 11/06/2003 7:57:29 PM PST by Great Dane (You can smoke just about everywhere in Denmark.)
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To: cherinfl; cinFLA
I don't lie or use false data!!!!!!!!!! I don't have to, they do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't provide info for Florida - I no longer live there and have never worked there - but I sure do have details for Delaware.

I'm sure you can imagine my being a little bit annoyed with someone in Florida claiming to know better about what is going on or has gone on in Delaware.

205 posted on 11/06/2003 8:16:22 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: Gabz
It's a shame there hasn't been a story about the Maryland establishments that are close to the Delaware line - they are BOOMING!!!!!! But there won't be such a story, because the papers that do cover those areas already have editorial positions in favor of smoking bans and will never do a story that shows the harm the Delaware ban has done in Delaware or the good it has done in Maryland.

The same with New Jersey, All the stories about how New Jersey is benefiting from the New York Smoking ban are from New York sources, None of the New Jersey papers have a word to say about it.

Actually the worst thing of all was Bloomberg calling the Delaware ban a big success in Sept. and Oct. of 2002 even though the ban didn't go into effect until that Thanksgiving and no one in the press called him on it.

heck after the ban went into effect in Delaware most of the money my husband and I normally spent when we went out started going to Maryland. and let me tell you - those bartenders and waitstaff in Maryland LOVE the ban in Delaware.

Same here but my money stays in NJ, After the ban went into effect in NYC I stopped going. Before the ban I was there all the time. New Jersey has a lame bar closing time of 2 or 3am depending on the town while NYC never sleeps and after the bars closed in NJ we used to get on the bus (Which convienately the bus stop is outside the bars in my town and it's a short 10 minute ride and it runs all night) and head into the city and there was always a few other groups who did the same. Not anymore I go to the diner or just go home and everybody else seems to do the same and that bus is now always empty. The only time I go into the city is when I have to pass through it when visiting family/friends on Long Island and even then I will go out of my way and take the 59th street bridge instead of the Queens-midtown tunnel just to deny Bloomberg the toll. 

The same when the ban went statewide, I haven't spent a cent in any of the bars/restaurants whenever I go back to my other location upstate. When I have wanted to go out I have taken a boat across Lake Champlain to the bars in Vermont or drove up to Montreal (Yeah, Wonderful I have to go to a foriegn country because America isn't free anymore).

I'm so happy I don't live in Delaware anymore.... But they are not rid of me. I'm only an hour away from the southern line and only 2 hours from the capitol. After being there for better than 20 years I've got too much history to just walk away. And my friends in the hospitality industry know I won't forget them.

I am happy I don't live in New York anymore, Before the ban I worked and lived in both NJ & NY after the ban I switched permanetly to NJ, Not just because of the ban but it was the last straw. I still go back often because of family and friends (though because of the way NY is just going to hell they are also leaving in droves) and because the Adirondack Park is just the most beautiful place in the world to give up. 

206 posted on 11/06/2003 8:16:51 PM PST by qam1 (Don't Patikify New Jersey)
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To: Gabz
And using anything with Stanton Glantz's name on it is bogus - he has publicly stated that if a study isn't coming up with the results he wants it gets scrapped (I'm paraphrasing)

The euphemism ole Stan the sham uses for scrapping a study doesn't come up the way he wants he claims is the study wasn't the best designed study.

From his study looking at 97 other studies (Many/Most of which were his own previous ones)

Review of the quality of studies on the economic effects of smoke-free policies on the hospitality industry

Conclusion: All of the best designed studies report no impact or a positive impact of smoke-free restaurant and bar laws on sales or employment. Policymakers can act to protect workers and patrons from the toxins in secondhand smoke confident in rejecting industry claims that there will be an adverse economic impact.

Well who do you think defines which are the best designed studies, He does of course and any study that didn't come to his conclusion of course didn't make it as a best designed study.  

207 posted on 11/06/2003 8:37:27 PM PST by qam1 (Don't Patikify New Jersey)
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To: Great Dane
I have no intention of depriving you or your son of driveng, just making the point that most of the things we do, are not detailed in the constitution.

And most of these things do not need regulation by the government, either local, state, or Federal....give me a break.............
208 posted on 11/06/2003 8:50:12 PM PST by Legerdemain
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I'm the guy who put up that page, to prove that the claim that bans are good for business is yet another nanny lie. I've only been gathering data for about two weeks, and have listed nearly 100 business so far.

If you know of any business that have either closed, or been harmed by smoking bans, please send the information to me at hittman@davehitt.com. At the minimum I need the name of the business, the % of business lost (unless it's closed, in which case I just plug in 100%), and the city and state. It's also helpful to have a street address for the business, and as much contact information about the owner that you can supply. (Mailing address, e-mail address, and phone number is preferred. This information isn't made public, but I keep it for my own use in case I need it later.) Quotes from the owners are helpful too. Information about bars, restaurants, and bar/restaurant combos is welcome, but I also can use information about distributors, bingo halls, bowling alleys, private clubs, and charities that have been hurt by bans.

I'm also collecting articles about places being harmed by bans, so send me any URLs you have that cover those types of stories.

I'm glad to see that this has caused so much conversation. I don't have time to look at all the comments right now, but will try to sometime in the next day or two.

It's rather amusing to see someone quoting from Tobacco Control as if a meta study by them would be worth more than a thimble of warm spit. Meta analysis are usually garbage no matter who does them – they're very difficult to do well and very, very easy to fake and manipulate. When they're done by an anti-smoker organization, only a complete idiot would give it any credence.

You'll find that nanny groups sponsor virtually all studies of the effects of bans. They have never, to my knowledge, done a study limited to taverns. Rather, they include places that were already non-smoking, like fast food joints, coffee houses, and delis, and places that will suffer minimal impact, like family oriented restaurants, places that cater to yuppies, and large chain restaurants. Simple inflation makes for an increase, which they then use as "proof" that business increased because of the ban.

If they were ever to do one on taverns, bingo halls, and places that cater to blue collar or rural clientele, the results would be so glum even they (who are experts at lying with numbers) would be hard pressed to hide the real damage their hate-inspired legislation causes.


209 posted on 11/06/2003 9:02:45 PM PST by Hittman
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To: hotshot
I'm terribly sorry to hear your son has asthma.

But the smoking of others did not cause it.

What bothers me is that you also know that, yet are sounding like you would prefer the government limit where smoking is permitted as opposed to a parent not taking his child somewhere that smoking is permitted.

""Unless you smoke outside away from everyone, you are causing future misery without any consideration of anyone else.""

That's a pretty declartive statement with nothing to back it up. Other than the fact you dislike tobacco smoke, why are you continuing to promote the lies of the anti-smokers? There is no proof that exposure to the tobacco smoke of others causes anything other than annoyance in anyone that does not have a pre-existing health problem.




210 posted on 11/06/2003 9:03:33 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: Legerdemain
And most of these things do not need regulation by the government, either local, state, or Federal....give me a break.............

THAT WAS MY WHOLE POINT.....

211 posted on 11/06/2003 9:10:38 PM PST by Great Dane (You can smoke just about everywhere in Denmark.)
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To: Hittman
His Dreams Go Up in Smoke

Smoking ban forces tavern owner to sell a family institution

http://www.nynewsday.com/features/printedition/queenslife/ny-qldiary3490253oct12,0,5769603.story?coll=ny-queenslife-print

The Empire strikes out

Three weeks after its Rochester location folded, Empire Brewing Co. on Tuesday abruptly closed its original and last remaining brewpub, in Syracuse's Armory Square...

The state smoking ban also appeared to reduce traffic, especially late at night.

http://www.syracuse.com/search/index.ssf?/base/business-4/1064392700312677.xml?syrbubiz

One to keep an eye on, Though it doesn't give a %

Tavern asks council for help

Shamrock Tavern wants to serve alcohol outside, saying smoking ban has hurt.

http://www.syracuse.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1065776130154210.xml?syrnegosw

212 posted on 11/06/2003 9:32:07 PM PST by qam1 (Don't Patikify New Jersey)
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To: VermiciousKnid
Unless you smoke outside away from everyone, you are causing future misery without any consideration of anyone else.

And that is the strawman argum,ent from the gnatzies - businesses will not be hurt. Busines wlll no be hurt??? my left foot.

213 posted on 11/06/2003 10:00:38 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: SheLion
Retailers in San Luis Obispo, CA may have to get a license to sell cigarettes if city officials approve a new ordinance aimed at stopping tobacco sales to youths. This county is responsible for the Laural Lanes bowling alley, No. 3 on SheLions list.

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/local/6583809.htm

Where does it end?
214 posted on 11/06/2003 10:47:34 PM PST by Revolver ("Dont ask me silly questions, I wont play silly games)
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To: Gabz
You admit that something you do on purpose annoys someone. Thank you for your honesty.
215 posted on 11/06/2003 11:05:49 PM PST by hotshot
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To: Gabz
The answer is as simple as the houses we grew up in. Insulation was unknown until the 50's. All of the houses built in the 60's and 70's have none or little until the energy crisis of the 70's. I have built solar houses so tight I had to install an air to air heat exchanger to get fresh air into the house. Now we wrap them in plastic with glass insu. and styrofoam to get R-20+. Both of my parents smoked all my life, I did not not notice. The second story didn't even have heat. We had our cloths under covers with us to get dressed in the winter mornings.
216 posted on 11/06/2003 11:23:45 PM PST by hotshot
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To: StriperSniper
Yeah, don't you just love those forfeiture stories?
217 posted on 11/06/2003 11:26:49 PM PST by ohmage
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To: TheOtherOne
If you think smoking is a Constitutional right, that is your first problem.

Obviously, you're another FR Totalitarian who thinks that the Constitution gives rights, rather than protecting God given rights and limiting government and what YOU, the totalitarian, are able to use government to do to other Americans.

218 posted on 11/07/2003 5:00:25 AM PST by xrp
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To: TheOtherOne
Businesses should be able to get Smoking Licenses, just like the can apply for and get liquor licenses. That way, the default for businesses will be non-smoking, but any that choses can become a smoking establishment.
Why license it? At best all that does is provide money and jobs to bureaucrats. At worst it lets them limit and control it above and beyond what the owners would do.

Simply requiring a "smoking permitted in this establishment" sign at each entrance accomplishes the same thing without governmental interference.

-Eric

219 posted on 11/07/2003 5:06:11 AM PST by E Rocc (Senator Robert Byrd voted against the Iraq package because he couldn't rename the country "Byrd".)
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To: E Rocc
Simply requiring

Who's going to require it? What will you do if people don't?

Give me a break, that is regulation, just an ineffective one.

220 posted on 11/07/2003 5:24:07 AM PST by TheOtherOne
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