Vanity - Question: Which matching set of firearms to buy?

[LibertarianInExile]

Okay, here's the question (with conditions attached):

What guns should I purchase?

[Squantos]

Well the first one isn't a yes or no question so I'll state for the moment that a long gun you purchase for home defense should be a rifle caliber if your in a rural setting and a shotgun in a city or the burbs loaded with buck and or slugs.

Based on everything you've stated I'd suggest a stainless revolver in .44 special like the Charter Arms Bulldog or semiauto in .357 SIG caliber like a SIG 239 as cost of ammo will be moot if ya don't spend a lot of time on the range. Had you done a lot of shooting I'd suggest a "common" caliber such as 9MM or 45ACP as that is a bit cheaper and reloading components are readily available.

The .44 special's performance is comparable to the 45ACP in the slow 800 to 950 fps big hole range. A favorite load for the .44 special is a Blazer CCI Gold Dot Hollow Point 200 grain bullet that just happens to be extreamly accurate in the cheap and reliable 3 inch stainless Bulldog revolver.

The reason I asked about the employers restrictions is that a holster, even a paddle is restrictive to ditch in a parking lot or seated position without risking a brandishment charge thus a set of the barimi hip grips are suggested if you choose the revolver I mentioned above as that weapon is stainless and very light with awesome accuracy and stopping power in the caliber mentioned. Stuck in your waist band it simply disappears pretty much. If you wear light colored clothing I will suggest a light colored set of grips to preclude a telegraph of the dark grips under a white thin shirt. The smooth grips will also keep the loose or tucked in shirt from creeping or crawling on a checkered wood or rubber version that could also lead to a brandishment incident.

As to a semi auto choice I am a fan of the 1911A1 as that is what I have carried for my entire career as a serviceman and a deputy sheriff. But I will suggest a SIG 239 in either .40 S&W or .357SIG as it is one kewl tool and I like the one I recently purchased.

If you have such a facility near you that will allow a try before you buy on site range and gun dealer then by all means do so as my suggestion may not be right for you and your initial wants and desires as to type and caliber may also turn out to be an expensive mistake.

As to a backup or light pocket gun one of the NAA 32-380's would be my first suggestion or if money isn't a problem a Seecamp as I have in either .32 or his new version in .380 .........

My shotgun suggestion for home defense is a pump 12 gauge 870 marine magnum as it's nickle dull finish is perfect for humid conditions and the extended magazine tube is standard. K.I.S.S. principal is key and the 870 and Bulldog should fit the bill for travel and home.

Hopefully the rest of the folks I pinged can add , enlighten and suggest also. Hope I helped with some of my suggestions............

Stay Safe !

[harpseal]

I have to agree with Squantos on the choice of a long gun as the location of yur home is a primary determinant of the choice of long gun for home defense. In an urban or suburban envirornment the rifle has real problems of over penetration. In short a round from it can go through the walls of your home and into some innocent that you never saw. Unless you have at least half a mile of space arround your home in all diections then I would suggest the shotgun is the better choice. The Remmington 870 in marine coat is an excellent choice as is the Mossberg 500/50- series.

Now having seen you discussion on the Glocks I heartily recommend you try one first as some people find the grip on the Glock and the trigger action difficult to adapt to. I can find nothing wrong withh the choice of .45acp as a primary pistol caliber or for that matter .44spl. I note that Taurus has come out with a .45acp revolver and Charter Arms has announced one is coming. The .44spl is also an excellent choice for a sidear as the stopping power and balistics are about the same.

Clearly since everyone is differtent I recommend trying some handguns prior to purchase a range nearby may rent a model of what you want to try.

For the third gun a deep concealment piece there are a number of options for this from the Titanium Taurus .38spl, the Scandium S&W .38 spl and more than a few semi-autos. A used Colt Mustang or Pony if you can find one is a .380 caliber that is in the same size range as many .22cal/.25cal autos and it is a .380 auto. No it is not a heavy round but a .380 is a whole lot bigger than a .25cal. Nort american also makes its miniture .22cal revolvers. since you are 6ft 5 inches I would suggest that the .380 or one of the .38spl revolvers is probably a better choice.

Since you will not be spending much time at the range therevolver auto question comes into play. The revolver is as a rule a whole lot simpler to deal with than is the auto. point pull the trigger. No safeties to deal with no magazines and mag releases. While the Glock and the Sig designs do solve some of these issues they still can be slightlymore complex at the zero dark thiry time of need. A revolver is just there.

anyway my two cents.

[TexasCowboy]

I've always been a proponent of a 12 gauge with double "0"s for home protection; mainly, because I could do more damage to an intruder by throwing my pillow at him than shooting at him with a handgun.
I've always told my wives that they don't need to chase an intruder into the next room. Double "0"s will take out a sheetrock wall.
'Course I've had a couple of wives who could have run off an intruder just by turning on the light.

Speaking of handguns, my ex-brother-in-law in one of my past lives was a policeman in San Angelo.
When he first got on the force he was practicing his fast draw in front of the mirror with his .357 Mag.
He shot a hole through the mirror, through the inside and outside wall of his home, through the outside wall of his neighbor's house and lodged in an interior closet wall.
Neighbor: "Honey, why do all my shirts have a hole through the breast pocket??"

If I lived in the country I'd opt for my Sharp's 45.70 for the long range wet work.
If it'll stop a buffalo it should stop an intruder.

[Squantos]

'Course I've had a couple of wives who could have run off an intruder just by turning on the light......

ROTFLMAO !.....Did ya know their husbands ?

Stay Safe !!

[wardaddy]

The NAA .380 Guardian is a big bang in a little package.

What'll they shoot...6 or 7 Glazers or Black Hills?

I like wheelguns for home nightstand use....when fumbling about.

In injun country...I'm with you...a high cap 1911 style....or the .357 Sig

Best wheelgun caliber(overall) hands down...,357 Mag.

In the home...44 Special (you and travis are of like minds on that) or .38+p or if you're a big armed/hands guy....I like the lead a 45LC throws out....but that's just me.

[Squantos]

Yeah in my experience if you don't have plenty of time shooting , carrying and understanding the 1911A1 style handgun then my best recomendation is a .44 special revolver. Heck if one wants they can buy a .44 magnum and just stuff specials in it till they want to hunt or graduate later on to the magnum.

A wheelgun in .44 Magnum which will accept the .44 specials is a good one gun choice to have IMHO. The bulldog from charter arms is the cheapest, best, stainless, accurate , conceilable , easy to use handgun out there with proper caliber rule of begining with a four .........:o)....albeit only for .44 "specials" not magnums.

I don't have one of the NAA 32-380's but I am a fan of bottleneck cartridges such as the .357SIG and I believe that is a better choice for reliability than a common .380 caliber. The propritary 32-380 wildcat/commercial round deserves a look for a pocket pistol caliber. It's on my list of things to weigh down my safe in the future.

Stay Safe !

[TexasCowboy]

"Did ya know their husbands ?"

I've always made it a point NOT to know the husbands.
I did get acquainted with a neck high clothes line one night in Woodward, OK.
When I came to I realized that the stars were really pretty that night and that it was really cold lying on that ground buck naked.
As I get older the wrinkles have just about covered up the crease in my neck.

[wardaddy]

I have never mastered the 44 mag....even though I admire the round. I had a friend shoot himself in the leg quick drawing with a 41 mag....nasty wound.

I remember as a boy in Mississippi, many an old beefy tree trunk armed/wristed Highway Patrloman/County Sherrif carried the SW M29 in a western holster and you could tell they damn well knew how to handle it. They always told me it was a great round to shoot at perps in cars and since they did mostly road work...alone (before choppers and long radio range), that was their choice....some carried .357Mags and 45LCs too...even ivory gripped...real ivory even.

Man...remember when local cops could only carry city issued Model 10s?

Now they want battle wagons and mounted machine guns...lol

[Squantos]

I'll have to tell ya the story about the time my High School girlfriends Mom and Dad came home early. I grabbed my levi's, ran buck nekid for about a mile to my truck and only then discoverd I'd grabbed my girlfriends levis by mistake.

No truck keys, no pants (that fit), Midnight in a small town.........that's when ya discover who yer real friends are ! My first lesson in escape and evasion per se ! I still make sure I have a hidden key and spare clothes in the truck to this day because of that little tramatic event !

Stay Safe !

[Squantos]

Yeah I ordered a S&W 329PD a few weeks ago from my local gun runner so it should be here soon. It's one of the TiLite series of scadnium frames and titanium cylinders with a steel barrel. It has a 4 inch barrel and weighs half of what a normal M-29 does so this should be a lesson in recoil, My dealer said the jobber mentioned recoil about a hunnerd times in the 2 minute conversation while ordering it.

I will also use it as a auto rig in one of the FOBUS Vehicle mounted holsters. I suppose it'll be shot a lot with .44 specials and a little with Magnums and carried more than used..........hopefully.

Stay Safe !!

[TexasCowboy]

ROTFLMAO!!!

Now you've got my belly hurting!
It's amazing the things we've survived to be able to live to a ripe old age.
I wouldn't accept a million for the memories or two million to do it again.

[TEXASPROUD]

There is so much good advice here already I feel I may be a bit redundent.

For someone that is not going to be shooting a lot, the revolver is the way to go. Smith, Colt, Taurus are all good guns. As a minimum, get a .357 Magnum, you then have a choice of shooting either .38 Special or .357 Magnum, the only difference being 1/10th of an inch in the length of the cases. Big difference in power. The most popular law enforcement round was the 125 gr Federal, Black Hills, etc. in .357 Mag, 96%+ one shot stops. For in home use, Glaser Safety Slugs or Bee Safes have a tendency to stay in the intended target. There is also a company here in Texas putting out a devastating round, RBCD Performance Plus Ammunition is what I use in my S&W .45Colt, 120 gr TFSP @ 1900 fps for 1023 Ftlbs of energy. This stays in the target and what it does to internal organs is unbelievable.

If you go with the .44, again, a .44 Magnum gives you the option of using a .44 Magnum or .44 Special. The new Smith&Wesson Mountain Gun has the lighter barrel of 1950 but if Magnum loads are used, it is nice to have the heft of the new underlugged barrels. N frames are big carry guns and I only use mine during the winter when I wear a jacket.
Since I shoot a lot, I also carry either a Kimber .45, Sig 220 .45ACP, or a Glock 23 in .40 S&W or (buy the extra .357 Sig barrel for a 2 caliber gun). I also have an addiction to Browning HiPowers in 9mm. I'm sure that Squantos, Travis, and Harpseal have seen more than a few dead bodies that had been caused by that so-called anemic round.

There is a company out there that makes an upper receiver assembly that allows you to use the frame from your 1911A1 or Glock to create a Carbine. I have personally never used this device, but it is interesting.

As far as shotguns go, I concur wholeheartedly with Squantos, you can't beat an 870 Remington. I have had one since 1971, and they can't be beat. Extremely reliable and they can easily be set up in different configurations. His suggestion of the Marine Model is perfect for your conditions of humidity. My personal choice of home defense load is #4 Buckshot.

As far as rifles go this is an echo of what others have said, .308Winchester/7.62 Nato, you can find it anywhere in North America. The semi-autos listed FN/FAL, SLR, L1A1, M1A, Garand, etc are all fine weapons and I feel comfortable with any of them, but if you are not going to be shooting much, a bolt action is the way to go. The Savage with the new accutrigger is an excellent choice, the Remington 700 or the Winchester Model 70 are outstanding choices as well.

Another option for rifles is a lever action in a pistol cartridge caliber. I have a Marlin 1895P in .44 Magnum with a 16 1/4" barrel. It is very low profile and looked at by many of the non shooting public as a "kinder and gentler" gun. It is still a highly effective weapon. Marlin, Winchester, and Ruger all make lever action carbines in .357, .44 Spc/Mag, and .45 Colt, and again this is just another option. A 5" S&W 629 Classic and a Marlin 1895P complement each other and I just worry about one caliber.

I am not an expert per se, but my background is law enforcement and medical. What is most important is shot placement. A .22 through the aorta or pulmonary artery will cause a cardiac tamponade rather quickly, a .22 to the medulla oblongata or thru the cervical spine will pretty much finish things rather quickly as well. A miss with a .44 will ensure return fire. I don't remember who mentioned it earlier, but no matter what you decide to get, also get a good .22 rifle and pistol as well, they are invaluable tools.

That's my two centavoes.

[Squantos]

Pistol	Cal.	Action type	Finish	Wt. oz.	Length	Brl. length	Sights	Width	Cap.	Approx %stops
Colt Diamondback	.38spec +P	DA rev.	blue	26	7.5"	2.5"	fully adj.	med.	6	67%
Colt Cobra	.38spec	DA rev.	blue	16	7"	2"	fixed	med.	6	62%
Colt Detective Special	.38spec +P	DA rev.	blue	22.5	7"	2"	fixed	med.	6	67%
Glock 19 & Glock 23	9x19 .40sw	safe action	ten- nifer	21.2	6.85"	4"	fixed or adj.	med. (1.2")	15 13	91%
Sig P228 & Sig P229	9x19 .40sw	DA auto	blue	26.5	7.12"	3.9"	fixed	med.	13 12	91%
Sig P230	.380acp	DA auto	Sts.	21.5	6.5"	3.6"	fixed	slim	7	70%
Walther PPK	.380acp	DA auto	Sts.	21	6.1"	3.2"	fixed	slim	6	70%
Baikal IJ70	.380acp 9x18	DA auto	blue	24	6.4"	3.7"	fully adj.	med. slim	8	70%
S&W M60-HB	.38spec +P	DA rev.	Sts.	24.5	7.31"	3"	fully adj.	med. slim	5	67%
S&W M66	.357 mag.	DA rev.	STS.	30.5	8"	2.5"	fully adj.	med. wide	6	96%
S&W 3913, 3913LS	9x19	DA auto	Sts.	25	6.75"	3.5"	fixed	med. slim	8	91%
Colt Officers ACP/LW	.45acp	SA auto	Sts.	24	7.25"	3.5"	fixed	med. slim	6	94%
Colt Govt. .380ACP	.380acp	SA auto	Sts.	21.75	6"	3.25"	fixed	slim	7	70%
Beretta 84 Cheetah	.380acp	DA auto	blue	23	6.8"	3.82"	fixed	med.	13	70%
Browning BDA-380	.380acp	DA auto	blue	23	6.8"	3.82"	fixed	med.	13	70%
H&K P7M8	9x19	S-cock auto	blue	29	6.73"	4.13"	fixed	med. slim	8	91%
Glock 26 & Glock 27	9x19 .40sw	safe action	ten- nifer	19.7	6.3"	3.5"	fixed	med. (1.2")	10 9	91%
Glock 25	.380acp	safe action	ten- nifer	20	6.85"	4"	fixed	med. (1.2")	15	70%
S&W 640 Centennial	.38spec	DA revolver	Sts.	21	6 5/16"	2"	fixed	med. slim	5	62%
S&W 2213	.22LR	SA auto	Sts.	18	6 1/8"	3"	fixed	slim	8	34%
S&W Sigma 9C Sigma 40C	9x19 .40sw	DAO auto	satin black	25	6 7/8"	4"	fixed	med.	10	91%
S&W Sigma SW380	.380acp	DAO auto	satin black	14	n/a	3"	fixed	med.	6	70%

Hope this helps a bit.......Stay Safe !

[wardaddy]

Note .357 mag stats....glowing proudly as I type.

[Squantos]

LOL.....I always double tap so that would be 188% for the 45 right ?:o)

Stay Safe WD !

[Travis McGee]

.357 is strong stuff, interchangeble with .38, doesn't leave brass around, and can even fire "Strike Three" ammo.

This is three OO buckshot in a line. Three nasty wound channels a few inches apart. No rifling marks.

[wardaddy]

Tell the truth: You have one of these in the back of your pickemup!

[wardaddy]

It's a caliber that I'm most familiar with in wheelguns....since I was a kid.

[Squantos]

LMAO.......IMHO that thang is the biggest scam on military weapons ideas. It's a friggin claymore pretty much. Duct tape a bunch of M18A1's to the bumper and call it a day !

I only own one NFA thingy these days albeit I'm thinkin of spending my lunch money I've been saving from 3rd grade on a HK21 a local collector wants to sell.

Stay Safe !

[Squantos]

http://www.civil-defence.org/products/ballistics/boz224/boz224.html

Stay Safe !