what to do? (seeking advice: kid issues)

6/27/2002 | paulsy

[paulsy]

what to do?

[paulsy]

hoping some of you might have some ideas.

this is a story that has 5 (earthly) characters: me, my wife, my daughter (5 yrs), my other daughter (2 yrs); my mother-in-law; and God.

our 5 year old daughter. she's a beautiful and precocious child, very artistic and athletic, a dynamic little thing, very well spoken and very much the queen bee of other kids in the neighborhood. she loves pink dresses and pretty little things. she’s always drawing pictures and paper airplanes and giving them to us. her picture is below.

my mother-in-law. we live with our in-laws because i was laid off last year. we are getting back on our feet now, which is a good thing, and we'll be moving out as soon as we can. but when i parent, if my mother-in-law does not agree with my style, she'll interfere and undermine me in subtle ways.

me. i'm the father/husband/son-in-law. i’m a regular guy, mid-thirties, father of three children (2 living with me and my wife, one living in another state). i spend too much time working, trying to support the family (especially after the layoff) but spend as much quality time with my kids as I can muster, even to the point of neglecting myself. i have this nagging fundamental belief that when i ask my kids to do something, they should do it. i also believe in respecting kids, but i don't believe the authority structure between me and my kids is a democracy: they MUST listen to what i say, there will be no vote. i also believe that if outsiders contravene something i'm doing between me and my kids, some activity or rule or guideline i'm laying down (especially at a critical moment when discipline is being administered) it can have a lasting damaging effect on the parent/child relationship.

my wife. she is a wonderful partner, beautiful, very intelligent and loving toward our two daughters. she puts every bit of energy she has into our children, is home schooling them, a lot of good things too many to mention here. unfortunately (from my perspective) she also believes the authority structure in our family should be more democratic. yesterday she called me a "dictator" and said "this fucking family is all fucked up and i don't care anyway, and you're a dictator" etc. she was of course angry when she said that, it was out of character, but it showed some obvious growing frustration on her part. her picture is below.

our two year old daughter. she's the sweetest thing on the face of the earth and unfortunately isn't paid enough attention to, especially when conflict goes on. she too is very, very bright, and likes the things big sister likes. she really admires big sister and follows her everywhere. she's very sensitive and will cry sometimes for what grownups might consider minor things. she has a great imagination and likes to pretend she's other people. there’s a picture of her too. i don’t have any pictures, ‘cause i keep breaking cameras.

here's what's happened. this past week, our 5 year old has become really scared at night, and even during the day, not wanting to go into various rooms in the house, wanting us to lay with her before bed, getting up a lot in the night to try to get into bed with us, etc. she's having a pretty hard time with her fear.

four nights ago we were trying to get her in bed. my wife took first crack at it and almost lost her temper, so called me in to help. i went in, at which point my wife dissappeared into the bathroom. i was having the same trouble, with my daughter following me out of the room, interrupting constantly, etc. etc., basically not listening at all, basically acting afraid. she started getting out of hand, screaming and yelling in anger and fear, and i too got out of hand, telling her to "get in bed" and threatening to spank her. i tried a few times to get my wife to come out and help and she wouldn't. i tried to spank my 5 year old and she would not let me.

i picked her up and put her over my shoulder to try to spank her, and at that moment my mother-in-law walked in and told me to stop. my wife also came into the room (finally) and told me to stop. the situation was getting out of control, i was loosing my temper, so i did stop, i left the room. then, my mother-in-law comforted my daughter, and my wife proceeded to yell at me.

sadly, this was all happening in front of the 2 year old, who was crying and afraid.

question: i'm the grown up, i should not have lost control of my temper. at the same time how do you get control of a situation like that without "giving in" and loosing the respect and control of your child? i felt bad this all happened, that i let the situation get out of control, especially in front of the 2 year old, but also because it was so traumatic for the 5 year old. at the same time i feel like my authority was seriously undermined by my mother-in-law and wife.

am i right? was my authority undermined? if so, how bad a thing is this, and can it ever be repaired?

there's more. everyone kind of worked through it afterward, but i was worried that my position of authority had been ruined. last night my worries came true.

bedtime again. without going into a lot of detail, things started to get out of hand, but i refused to loose my temper this time, i calmly walked away. but before walking away, my daughter flat refused to get in bed when i asked her to. the conversation went something like this:

me: "it's time to get in bed, go climb in" daughter: "no, i want mommy to lay with me." me: "honey it's time for bed, go lay down. i'll bring mommy to you but go lay down" daughter: "no daddy! i want mommy to lay with me!

she's starting to yell by this time. was trying to get past me, through the bedroom door out into the hall, and she yelled (crying) out "mommy mommy!!! i want you to lay with me, will you come lay with me mommy?!?"

i was really angry by this time but i walked away, because without physically manhandling my daughter or spanking her she just was NOT getting into bed. of course by this time i was too angry to be spanking my child anyway, something i learned from the other night. my wife came to the rescue and i left things with her.

later then, it's midnight (3 hours past bedtime) and the daughter still is not asleep. my wife basically left things with me again, and the daughter would NOT stay in bed. she wanted mommy to lay with her again, and i told her no. keep in mind, she's afraid of the dark, and i'm leaving her in a dark room. but also keep in mind, if a light is left on, she won't go to sleep at all. so i'm trying to keep her in bed and she won't stay in bed. she keeps trying to push her way past me into the hall. i toss her back onto the bed and say forcefully (but not yelling) "you cannot get out of bed. you must stay in bed."

this was NOT happening in front of the two year old, because she was in a different room last night.

at this point my daughter unloads at the top of her lungs (again) and wakes up the mother-in-law, who comes out and gets involved, and my wife, who comes out of the bathroom (again) and we're all there trying to calm the daughter down. me and my wife go into another room to talk about it, which is when my wife calls me a dictator and says "this family is all fucked up and i don't care anyway" comment.

then this morning, i say to my daughter “let’s go to the store honey, we need to fix the tire” and she says, “well dad i’m going to have to think about it, i’m watching Arthur and i have some art to do…” (as bothersome as this was given our current situation, i did laugh to myself a bit when she said it)

anyway i am experiencing a lot of fear right now, that the respect and authority structure between me and my daughter has been ruined, that whenever my daughter doesn't want to do something i ask her to do, she'll scream at the top of her lungs and summon my wife and mother-in-law to come "rescue" her from me, the bad-guy, the dictator. in fact i feel like i the three of them hate me and feel i don't belong.

i’m hoping some of the freeper-people here might have some input for me. are my concerns justified? or am i over-reacting?

do any of you have any thoughts on this, any suggestions? has anyone else been through something like this, and if so, how in the world did you fix it?

i love my kids (and my wife) with everything in me and i only want what is right, i want them to become fantastic grownups who love life but this parenting stuff is HARD.

here’s my 5 year old:

here’s my two year old:

here’s my wife:

[Bahbah]

You are obviously a great family and I will make this short. When I was 5, I developed a terrible fear of being without a parent at night. No reason in the world for this. My Mom (dad was a RR engineer and worked nights) just let me follow her around until she went to bed and she stayed with me if I wanted her to. I got over it. You cannot love them too much.

[Bahbah]

BTW, your children and your wife are just beautiful.

[gitmo]

I don't know if my thoughts are of any value. I knew a lot more about raising kids back before I had some.

My first thought is that you can't force people to overcome irrational fears. This doesn't sound like willfull disobedience, but an inability to deal with her fear. Something has scared your daughter about being alone, and she needs some time to work that out. I have a 7 year old boy who won't go to his room alone at night. I let him lay down on the couch near me and go to sleep. Once he's asleep, I can awaken him and send him to his room.

I've always believed that I should be quick to apologize to my kids when I've been wrong. I think they see that as a strength in their Dad. And I don't make it a quick, small apology but I make sure they understand that I mean it and that it's a big deal to me. I want them to realize that confession and repentence are important.

You said that you try to spend quality time with your kids. Why not use this as a special time just between you and your daughter. Read to her or tell her stories while she goes to sleep. I think she will treasure those times long after you're gone.

[WillaJohns]

This is a phase. It will not last. Get through it one day at a time (or one night at a time). Trust me on this, in a couple months you and the entire family will have forgotten all about it (cause you will be stressing on some other family trauma). You all sound like a fine family, including mother-in-law, bless her. Parenting is not an exact science. Do the best you can and keep loving your family. When unsure what to do, pick the kindest, most loving thing that comes to you. You will fail time and time again. But you will also succeed many times. You have a beautiful family and YOU ARE A GREAT DAD AND HUSBAND AND SON-IN-LAW!

[alisasny]

Here is our latest solution to the endless " i don't want to sleep in my room " problem...( my kids are 6 and almost 10) Our bedroom is the only one to have AC so now that it is so hot they may come in and sleep on floor...

In the past and currently we also allow them to fall asleep in our bed and later move them...sometimes they come back in the middle of the night sometimes they dont. They are always asleep as close to 9 pm as possible regardless of location. The 10 year old does sleep in his room most of the time now but it took a long time.

In addition the stress due to living with inlaws is probably taking its toll on you. We recently got out of a horrid 7 year or so living arrangement with my father. How my husband tolerated the situation for so long is beyond me. We both felt sorry for my Dad being a widow and found a great 2 family home. My father was constantly bothering us ,walking up to our place whenever he felt like it...criticizing us ect ect ect. I am so glad he is finally gone. He met a woman and got married over a year ago. Moved out about a year and half ago. We are so much happier and rented out his area to a wonderful couple with a little 2 year old. Live is good. I hope you can get your own place soon.

[Kaslin]

You have indeed a beautiful family, but I think what you should have done instead is hold your daughter comforted her and gave her a big hug. Perhaps there was something that frightened her, that's why she was acting the way she was. In these times we can never tell our children enough that we love them.

[gitmo]

I asked my 12 year old son about this. He said you ought to get a Sound Spa or tapes of Crickets, Waves, birds, or music. He said that helps him.

[SouthernFreebird]

Sept 11, taught me that life is to precious to waste sweating the small stuff........your baby needing her parents some extra time right now because of her fears is not a big deal....enjoy this time, all too soon she won't need to come to mom and dad and you'll wish you could snuggle with her and chase away the goblins one more time.



Your MIL on the other hand knows she is interferring..... You are facing a losing battle to take her on while living in her house......I'm sure you already know that. Your family needs your own place ASAP so you and your wife can parent your children in the way the both of you agree to.


Thats all IMHO........we just chug along learning as we go.......we all lose our tempers and make wrong decisions.....we apologize and move on.....


Enjoy your babies....they will still respect you if you give in to them some times.

[homeschool mama]

I'll be quite blunt.

Your family has been living with your mil so you're unable to conduct normal routines and family closeness w/o interference. Your 5yod could be reacting to this...as it can promote stresses beyond your control. Young children are far more intuitive than we give them credit for.

On the other hand, your 5yod could be having fear issues based on her age rather than environment. My daughter had times where she was afraid as well.

My husband and I enjoyed spending quiet time with our daughter before bed...lights low...soft talking and cuddling...as she would begin to drift off we'd take our leave.

Your mother in law in in the wrong, imo. Your wife is being pulled in two directions...you as her husband ... and her mother. It's a trying and difficult place to be for both of you.

I would do everything in your power as head of the home, to get your family on it's feet in your own private nest again. The refreshing qualities of this will be incredible!

[homeschool mama]

Wonderful suggestions.

[paulsy]

"I would do everything in your power as head of the home, to get your family on it's feet in your own private nest again. The refreshing qualities of this will be incredible!"

that seems to be a general consensus. we are trying, we'll get there soon. we're sort of stuck here for now and that adds to a trapped sort of feeling on everyone's part, but thankfully the house is very big.

[homeschool mama]

**we're sort of stuck here for now and that adds to a trapped sort of feeling on everyone's part,**

I encourage you to begin family quiet time before the kiddos go to bed. The low lights and reading a short story would help in getting your 5yod in the right mindset for bedtime. It would have further results for your wife and you, too. The quiet tends to soften hearts in a marriage, drawing a couple closer together. Sounds like you both need sweet time together.

Hope you don't mind, but I'm putting you and your family on my prayer list. Blessings to you, HM <><

[pubmom]

Give your daughter a flashlight to take to bed. If the dark is what is causing her fear, having a flashlight will give her a sense of control over it.

Can you sit down with your wife and mother-law and discuss what is happening without becoming explosive?

[MozartLover]

"Sept 11, taught me that life is to precious to waste sweating the small stuff........your baby needing her parents some extra time right now because of her fears is not a big deal....enjoy this time, all too soon she won't need to come to mom and dad and you'll wish you could snuggle with her and chase away the goblins one more time. "

I am in total agreement with these comments. Now is the time to teach her the lesson that you will always be there for her, that she can come to you with her fears and doubts and problems, and that you will not push her away or minimize the importance of her feelings. Discipline and control have their place, but something appears to be troubling your daughter and right now she needs you and your wife to be there for her. I am not a huge fan of the "family bed" philosophy but we went through times with all 3 of our kids when some extra "snuggle time" was called for. Home should be a place of peace and security; sometimes that it not a "given"; sometimes we have to go the extra mile to provide it.

Give that baby a hug and tell her you will help her through this.

That's my 2 cents worth.:)

Best of luck.

[OldFriend]

Tell her you are so sorry she is feeling afraid. You or your wife should lay down with her and inch by inch begin crowding her. She may decide she wants you out of her bed!!!

Seriously tho, my daughter NEVER fell asleep without mom or dad with her from birth until about 6 or 7......they were precious times. I used that time to just relax while my husband took care of our son who was just three years older than she. Or vice versa. Tell her cute loving stories that you make up........

Separation anxiety is not all that unusual with boys or girls......just a chance for some extra hugs!!!

[Gabz]

I can't out do any of the superb advice you've gotten here, but I do have a suggestion.

If there is a window in your daughter's room spend a little time near it by yourself at the time you would normally send her to bed.

When our (at the time almost 3yo) started refusing to sleep in her own room we tried nearly everything that has been suggested. There were some hellacious battles!!!

It turned out that she wasn't afraid of the dark, wasn't afraid of being alone - she was afraid of stuff out on the street.

We solved the problem of the "fire" by rearranging blinds and curtains so she couldn't see the street light - trees branches made it look to her like a fire was coming at her.

The problem we can't solve are the jerks that live across the street that have no concern about the neighbors - although a few well timed calls to the local PD have helped calm the noise level. But she still dos not like sleeping in there.

All the above problems will hopefully be solved when this house is sold and we can finally move out.

You are an obviously loving father and husband - things will work out. God bless.

[balrog666]

One word: move.

[Corin Stormhands]

IMHO

You need to get out of your MIL's house ASAP. Problem is you can tell her its none of her business how you raise your kids (and it really isn't), but as long as your in her house, she's gonna try to control things. (she will after you move, but you can manage it better then)

And you need to confront your wife about her anger. There's simply no excuse for a grown-up, especially the parent to be shouting the f-word in front of kids. The way you describe it, there seems to be more going on than just your daughter not going to sleep at night.

You need to worry less about how your daughter goes to sleep. Kids feel the stress of you losing your job, money troubles, living with in-laws, etc. Your wife just needs to accept that, for now, your daughter needs her at night. It won't last that long and once you're daughter feels secure again, it can stop.

And you need to think about how you'll re-write this post if it's pulled because you didn't say "f-word."

[gracie1]

It sounds like your daughter has some kind of irrational fear that keeps her from sleeping in her own bed. It is totally not uncommon for this age group to have these fears and no amount of threatening or punishing on your part is going to alter her behavior. Whatever it is she is afraid of is worse than your reaction to her refusal to go to bed.

If it helps to let her fall asleep in your bed, then move her, by all means, do so. It will not harm her, nor interfer with your relationship with your wife if you can find other times to be intimate.

My kids slept in our bed when they had problems sleeping, and they do grow out of it. I think it will help sooth the tensions that have developed.

Men sometimes have difficulty accepting that sometimes they just can't control every part of their lives, but since you recognized there is a problem shows you do have the insight to see things from anothers point of view.

And by all means, get your own place pronto!

Good luck!