What is the actual National Debt?

Treasury.gov and Usdebtclock.org | 4-30-2025 | Bernard

[Bernard]

I went looking for an official source of information about the amount of US National Debt, and found a table maker that produces PDF's for each month end. Here's an example; https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/static-data/published-reports/mspd-entire/MonthlyStatementPublicDebt_Entire_202412.pdf

That returns the US Treasury report on the balance as of 12/31/2024. Change the digits at the end (202412 change to 202503) and get March 31, 2024. And so on.

So far, so good. According to the Treasury, the national debt at 3/31/2025 was $36,218,605.

Then go to usdebtclock.org, and the national debt is shown as $36,720,xxx (the numbers keep changing as you watch).

Since the Treasury website said the national debt was $36.218 Trillion at 12/31/24 and $36.214 Trillion at 3/31, it's hard to believe that it's gone up $500 Billion in the last month.

Why is there such a large difference between the 2 reports?

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TOPICS: Business/Economy; Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: governmentspending; nationaldebt

[Bernard]

The real reason I wanted to check the balance today is that it looks like that the national debt really hasn't moved much since January 20, when Donald Trump became President. Then I got into this significant difference thing between Treasury and the non-profit.

So is there an accurate reporting tool for the actual debt?

[inkdude]

This number is even bigger, dont know the group or their politics but here is their number.

https://www.truthinaccounting.org/about/our_national_debt

[Bernard]

That's showing #36.170 Trillion in Published US Debt, which is probably the same as what the Treasury is reporting; actual cash out the door, which is accruing interest.

The rest of their numbers are estimates of future debt, based on expert calculations for things like pension liabilities, etc. Or, in other words, obligations that have not been spent.

I'm assuming that the US Treasury has the most accurate number.

And, if the Treasury numbers are accurate, it looks like the national debt has flattened out since 1/20/2025. Why is nobody talking about this?

[Openurmind]

Those who know and understand it will tell you that what they show is only half of the true debt...

[Presbyterian Reporter]

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/debt-to-the-penny/debt-to-the-penny

[Drago]

Did you go here? (Daily #’s)

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/debt-to-the-penny/debt-to-the-penny

“$36,214,714,517,960.73” as of yesterday 4/29/25.

[zeestephen]

Individual Executive Branch Departments also borrow from each other.

I do not know if that gets classified as debt.

Also, the Federal Reserve creates money by purchasing U.S. Treasury Debt.

The purchase is a computer transaction.

No money actually changes hands.

I do not think that shows up in federal accounting as debt.

[zeestephen]

Trump actually did release Q-1 (Jan-Feb-Mar) budget debt numbers.

Trump compared Biden Numbers to Trump Numbers.

The difference was substantial - like Biden had to borrow $500 billion and Trump borrowed just $100 billion.

I do not recall the exact comparison or the exact amount, but Trump did release a comparison.

[CodeToad]

A few years back I did a thorough research on the subject and produced a spreadsheet I published on FR. The US Debt Clock was dead accurate. They update using reliable sources. Remember, the US Government uses fancy accounting gimmicks to delay reporting debt but quickly report revenues. Neither are really resolved until a few years after the current year.

[CodeToad]

If you want accurate accounting numbers, see the Financial Accounts of the United States. It is a quarterly report that shows accounting numbers across the economy including banking numbers.

[Bernard]

Thanks. So reading that table, it looks like that the "Total Public Debt Outstanding" was $36.218 Trillion on 1/21/2025. The same number as of 4/22/2025 (latest date on that table) was $36.215 Trillion. And the number you reported as of yesterday (4/29) was slightly under the 4/22 amount.

That looks to me the national debt has decreased during the first 100 days of this administration.

Strange how nobody is talking about that. Hmmmmmmm ...... Could be because there was principal paydown along with interest payouts, but still - when is the last time the national debt decreased?

[Drago]

There are ‘fluctuations” depending on the time within the “fiscal year” and if the treasury is using “extraordinary measures” due to the approach of the “debt ceiling”. Look at 12/9/24-12/12/24 or 3/29/24-4/4/24 for example for other “it went down” periods. If the “it went down” period lasted for a month or 2 that would be of note/a true trend.

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/debt-to-the-penny/debt-to-the-penny

[TheWriterTX]

Check out the TCMDO numbers from the St. Louis Fed.

Then reach for an adult beverage; you will need it.

It’s much, much worse.

[delta7]

It doesn’t matter, it is mathematically impossible to pay off!

[Presbyterian Reporter]

Bernard,
I posted the same vanity on April 22, 2025 regarding the National Debt from Jan 20, 2025 to 4/22/25.

I got zero relevant responses from the FReepers.

I also did Google searches and found nothing about the fact that National Debt has not increased during the first 90 days of Trump’s Presidency.

All I can say at this point is that ‘something is going on and nobody wants to talk about it’.

[Presbyterian Reporter]

Here is the link to what I posted-—

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/4312556/posts

[Bernard]

And the same $500 Billion difference, with usdebtclock.org being the higher number. Maybe the clock is set to run at Biden speed instead of Trump 2.0 speed.

Either way, a sad state of events that even here nobody seems to care very much about it.