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In Germany, ‘Orphaned’ by U.S., Shock Gives Way to ActionNo country in Europe is as much a product of enlightened postwar American diplomacy. Now adrift, it has begun to reckon with a new world.
New York Times ^ | March 21, 2025 | Steven Erlanger

Posted on 03/27/2025 8:13:08 AM PDT by Cronos

...Germany, perhaps more than any other country in Europe, feels adrift, orphaned and even betrayed by its closest ally. But if Germans have been pushed out of the nest, they are also beginning to respond, amid deep soul searching and questioning about the future — both their own and Europe’s.

The biggest indication that shock is giving way to action came this week, as the German Parliament voted to loosen the country’s long aversion to debt so that it could begin rebuilding a military and a domestic infrastructure that had fallen into neglect.

It was a groundbreaking step, given taboos about German militarism. Still, it is one that Germans and other Europeans know they must take to adapt to new hostility coming from both Russia and the United States.

Joschka Fischer, a former foreign minister, radical leftist in his younger days and now a Green party stalwart, said, “I always had a complicated relationship with the United States, which was far from perfect, but the U.S. was always the shining city on the hill.”

“But now,” he said, “we’ve lost not only the power that protected us, but also the guiding star in the sky.”

Europe must rearm in response, he said. German leadership is essential to do that, though many on the continent are still insistent that Europeans must, as Mr. Fischer put it, “continue with our close alliance with the U.S., while becoming as strong as possible to deter Russia.”

..“There’s no other country in Europe that is as much a product of enlightened postwar American policy as Germany,” said Mr. Bagger, born in 1965. “So the shock is deeper here.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 666; antiamericanism; considerthesource; eussr; fakenews; fourthreich; newyorkslimes; tds; thebeast
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To: Cronos

“Germany, perhaps more than any other country in Europe, feels adrift, orphaned and even betrayed by its closest ally.”

What exactly did America do to “betray” Germany? Blowing up Nordstream might be a betrayal. But under Trump, all America has done is tell them to STFU about the war they are fanning the flames of white we try to wrap it up.
Is getting in the way of their Banderist brethren and German plans in the east a betrayal of the Germans? LOL


41 posted on 03/27/2025 9:24:31 AM PDT by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2025... RETURN OF THE JEDI...)
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To: pierrem15
The EU is like the US under the Articles of Confederation, far too unwieldy.

Maybe the EU needs a new constitution. I know where they can find a really good exemplar.

42 posted on 03/27/2025 9:24:38 AM PDT by HartleyMBaldwin
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To: Cronos

Fourth Reich?


43 posted on 03/27/2025 9:24:42 AM PDT by Jim W N (MAGA by restoring the Gospel of the Grace of Christ (Jude 3) and our Free Constitutional Republic!)
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To: Cronos

“Betrayed”? How so? Did they really expect to be able to freeload off of America to pay their Defense bills for them forever?


44 posted on 03/27/2025 9:26:16 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

Since the Cold War ended and the EU was born, Western Europe has basically said to the USA, “We hate everything about you, except your money of course. Can you send us some more?”


45 posted on 03/27/2025 9:26:49 AM PDT by Rlsau1
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To: Cronos
Thanks for an amusing thread, with comments spanning a number of views.

Herb Stein's observation echoes, that what cannot continue will stop.

With our national debt at "at war" levels and relatively little to show for buying and spending today yesterday, now von der Leyen -- a German after all -- wants her Europe to be a hegemon and that dreamed-of Army of Europe. With too much social welfare, too nutty and too many green policies, and immigration from third wold nations, "Europe" is supposed to increase its debt to "hegemon" status.

What could possibly go wrong? < s a r c >

46 posted on 03/27/2025 9:30:21 AM PDT by Worldtraveler once upon a time (Degrow government)
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To: Red6

It is amazing isn’t it? I am old enough to remember the Cold War. I was a teenager in the 80s. I remember Lefties being as soft as Charmin toward the Commies. Now that its Russia instead of the Soviet Union, now that they are far far less powerful and they have no global ambitions, suddenly Leftists are talking about arming up and are constantly beating the war drums.....


47 posted on 03/27/2025 9:31:49 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: Cronos

Merkel ruined Germany. Not the country I was before her.


48 posted on 03/27/2025 9:34:19 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin ( )
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To: pierrem15

“A story in the Polish newspaper Rzeczpospolita asked, What if Germany rebuilds the Bundeswehr but the AfD takes over?”

Typical Polish mentality. If Germany builds a powerful military (it won’t), in less than a decade it will be an islamic army.


49 posted on 03/27/2025 9:48:44 AM PDT by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2025... RETURN OF THE JEDI...)
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To: Cronos

Welfare is a cancer on society. You can never cut people or countries off their free stuff without YOU being the bad guy.


50 posted on 03/27/2025 9:48:55 AM PDT by packrat35 (Pureblood! No clot shot for me!)
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To: Cronos

uh,yeah, right NYT ... Germany’s “new world” just included the deliberate implosion of one of the world’s most advanced coal plants, which had been in use for only six years ...

i guess the theory there is that if they blow them up, then they won’t be tempted to use them temporarily to stave off an emergency such as when arctic conditions require substantially more energy than can be supplied by stalled windmills and darkened solar panels ... apparently it’s better for the population to freeze to death while commerce grinds to a halt than to allow coal to be used ...


51 posted on 03/27/2025 9:48:59 AM PDT by catnipman ((A Vote For The Lesser Of Two Evils Still Counts As A Vote For Evil))
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To: MRadtke

They spent it on welfare for their people and illegal aliens.


52 posted on 03/27/2025 9:54:09 AM PDT by packrat35 (Pureblood! No clot shot for me!)
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To: pierrem15

The AfD doesn’t want to take over the world, they want to get rid of illegal aliens and be pro Germany and not against their own people.


53 posted on 03/27/2025 9:56:54 AM PDT by packrat35 (Pureblood! No clot shot for me!)
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To: pierrem15

If the US did not have a strong central government, US states would also have been at war with one another.

As a European, you simply have no clue. The most freedom we ever had was with the weak central government our founders created. The only war between states was the Civil War 160 years ago, and THAT was when there was an issue of national importance, and the states went one way or the other.
So even THAT conflict, at it’s core, was caused by the central government.
The best America ever was occurred when the States held the power.

Europeans always pine for a strongman, a monarch, an all powerful central government. It is a symptom of their childlike desire for someone else to do it all for them.

A strong central government is the problem, not the solution.


54 posted on 03/27/2025 10:01:40 AM PDT by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2025... RETURN OF THE JEDI...)
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To: pierrem15

“The current problem is that without a hegemon like the US, there is no political framework that can provide Europe with an effective common defense.”

Then maybe they should be more circumspect in their rhetoric about America. Act grateful and respectful. Instead it’s a cavalcade of gratuitious insults, abuse, sarcasm, subversion, bribery, scheming, and interference in our politics etc.

They are finally getting a small taste of how they treat America, and it seems they don’t like it so much. Learn the lesson.


55 posted on 03/27/2025 10:09:54 AM PDT by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2025... RETURN OF THE JEDI...)
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To: Cronos
From the article: ...domestic infrastructure that had fallen into neglect.

What passive propaganda. Their domestic infrastructure, like ours, didn't "fall" into neglect - their government officials determinedly neglected it.

Every year, specific individuals looked at the infrastructure repairs needed and chose to put the money for needed repairs toward their socialist programs instead.

56 posted on 03/27/2025 10:10:46 AM PDT by T.B. Yoits
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To: packrat35

Sage observation. Just as in a family or friendship.


57 posted on 03/27/2025 10:11:28 AM PDT by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2025... RETURN OF THE JEDI...)
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To: Rlsau1

Since the Cold War ended and the EU was born, Western Europe has basically said to the USA, “We hate everything about you, except your money of course. Can you send us some more?”

+++++++

The comparison to a spoiled, privileged child always comes to mind. Give me, give me, give me. Even if I hate you for being my parents. Give me, give me, give me.


58 posted on 03/27/2025 10:11:58 AM PDT by mund1011 (We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality)
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To: Cronos

Europe is like the frog in the pot with the heat slowly rising. If all of the Muslims in Europe were in one of their countries, they would be reacting totally different.


59 posted on 03/27/2025 10:17:20 AM PDT by alternatives?
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To: FLT-bird

This isn’t about logic.

It’s not about morals.

This isn’t even about our national security.

This is a “stupid war” that was sold to the public.


60 posted on 03/27/2025 10:39:47 AM PDT by Red6
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