Posted on 01/19/2025 9:31:59 AM PST by daniel1212
Is it really true that entire universes can appear from nothing? This "science" is based upon the real science of quantum mechanics, which has shown that particles can appear from "nothing" and disappear into "nothing." Atheist scientists say that "nothing" is unstable and spontaneously produces somethings. Although the statement is true in a limited sense, atheists aren't telling you the whole story. Why is that? Although these virtual particles appear based upon some probability statistic, they also disappear spontaneously, based upon the same probability. In other words, these particles are not stable and do not behave like the stuff we regularly encounter in our macroscopic world. One would never expect a tennis ball to spontaneously appear or disappear, although it is theoretically possible. The reason why a macroscopic object would never behave like a quantum particle is that so many unlikely events would have to transpire simultaneously for such an event to occur. The fallacy that Victor Stenger and other anthropic principle antagonists promote is that probabilistic quantum events apply to the macro world. They never provide any evidence that such an assumption is true.
An even more fundamental error is the assumption that the universe is all that exists. Stenger assumes that there is nothing "outside the box." In essence he is saying that by measuring the stuff in the box, we can know that nothing exists outside the box. How does he know that? Of course, he doesn't.
Stenger also wants you to believe that we can ascribe creative properties to "nothing" on the basis of measurements within the box. Of course, that assumption is also false. There is no "nothing" in the universe from which we can make measurements. Space, time, matter and energy all came about during the event referred to as the Big Bang, some 13.8 billion years ago [according to post-Fall dating]. The entire universe is bathed in the cosmic background radiation of the Big Bang—in every square angstrom of space-time. The problem has gotten more extreme recently, with the discovery of dark energy—a component of the universe that also effects everything, including the very fabric of space-time. Of course, the laws of physics, including quantum mechanics, operate throughout the universe. So, there are no examples of nothing within the box. Stenger ignores the possibility that the box was designed to promote the creation and conversion of matter because it was necessary to its operation.
Christian apologists use the argument that all things that come to exist have a cause, and, therefore, since the universe began to exist, it too must have a cause. Stenger's unbelievable rebuttal is that not all things that come to exist have a cause:
"Once again, this ignores quantum mechanics, in which events commonly occur without cause. This is the case for the atomic transitions that give us light and the nuclear decays that give us nuclear radiation. They all happen spontaneously, without cause."1
The "non-caused" cause of radioactive decay is that certain atoms contain too many or too few neutrons compared to protons, which results in nuclear instability. When I do an experiment using a radioactive tracer, do I fret that some departure from quantum probability and the weak nuclear force will render my experiment ruined? No! In the macro world in which we live, there are no significant departures that separate cause from effect, simply because quantum mechanics is acting on the system at the quantum level. Although we cannot predict exactly when any particular atom will decay, we can predict very accurately an average rate of decay for any macroscopic sample of such atoms. The idea that nuclear decay and chemical transitions are devoid of cause is anti-science superstition. The claim that quantum mechanics is not the cause of anything is ludicrous. Stenger wants you to believe that since we cannot predict individual quantum events that such rules apply to appearance of universes—the ultimate antithesis of quantum particles.
Stenger says that because the kinetic energy of all the bodies in the universe is exactly balanced by their negative gravitational potential energy, the universe is the ultimate free lunch. The implication is that since no laws of thermodynamics are violated, the universe could have been produced spontaneously—energy free. The problem with such a claim is that there is no physical principle operating within the universe that would cause the separation of this kinetic and gravitational energy from nothing. So, atheists appeal to the magical multiverse, which "knows" how to make such miracles happen, complete with a reshuffling of the physical laws to eliminate fine tuning requirements.
Victor Stenger thinks he has solved the "problem" of evidence for the fine tuning of the universe. For the expansion rate of the universe (which is fine-tuned to 1 part in 1055), and the mass density term (which is fine-tuned to 1 part in 1059), Stenger says the problem is easily solved by cosmic inflation. According to inflation theory, the universe expanded by 1026 times during a tiny fraction of a second only 10-35 seconds after the initiation of the Big Bang. The theory was originally "invented" by Alan Guth in 1980 to try to address the flatness and horizon problems of standard Big Bang cosmology (a sort of fudge-factor, complete with its own theoretical particle, the inflaton). Surprisingly, inflation has predicted several findings of the WMAP satellite, providing a degree of observational evidence for its validity. However, contrary to Stenger's claim, substituting finely tuned inflation for other finely tuned parameters does not solve the fine tuning problem. For one, inflationary theories tend to evolve, so that those that fit the observational evidence better become "good inflation" theories, while others are discarded. With a plethora of theories to choose from, one has to ask the question whether inflation is really falsifiable. Roger Penrose, in considering all the possible configurations of the inflaton and gravitational fields, found that obtaining a flat universe without inflation is much more likely than those that produce inflation—by a factor of (1010)100.2 So, instead of solving Stenger's fine tuning problem, inflation actually makes it much worse.
Dark energy is a mystery to atheists, since it is exquisitely fine tuned at 1 in 10120—making up nearly three-quarters of all the "stuff" in the universe. Stenger provides only a half-hearted attempt to explain away dark energy fine tuning:
"A simple calculation indicates that the energy density of the vacuum is 120 orders of magnitude greater than its experimental upper limit. Clearly this estimate is wrong. This calculation must be one of the worst in scientific history!"3
In his book, The Fallacy of Fine Tuning, Stenger claims to solve part of the dark energy fine tuning "problem" by appealing to supersymmetry at low energies, which is not supported by observational evidence. However, even pulling this data from thin air reduces fine tuning to 1 in 1050�certainly not a very significant improvement. He also appeals to a speculative concept called the "holographic universe," where the universe is really two dimensional, existing on the surface of a gigantic black hole.4 Accordingly, the apparent three-dimensional nature of the universe we observe is merely an illusion. Although such a scenario might mathematically get rid of the dark energy problem, it is at odds with the observational evidence and is extremely unlikely to be true. Proponents of the theory have yet to explain how there can be black holes within our universe's black hole existence. Maybe there infinite levels of black holes with Lilliputian worlds galore! Stenger's approach to the evidence for the fine tuning of dark energy is amazingly backward, from a scientific perspective. In science, one is supposed to accept the data and modify one's hypothesis based upon it. However, Stenger rejects the data and keeps his failed hypothesis. Amazing!
As much as atheists would love to get rid of a beginning to the universe, it is apparent that it did begin to exist some time in the past. The Borde-Guth-Vilenkin Theorem5 shows that there is no way to get rid of a beginning to any universe that is characterized by cosmic expansion (Hav > 0). Since our universe is characterized by cosmic expansion, it must have had a beginning.
"I do not know of a single working cosmologist today who says that the universe began with a singularity."1
The biblical model for creation does not suffer from the inability to explain fine tuning. In fact, it is quite likely that God used fine tuning as evidence for His creative input into the origin of the universe, although He could have created the universe with no evidence for fine tuning. But, since the Bible says that the creation declares God's handiwork,6 we would expect to see such evidence for design. Atheists are always complaining about the lack of evidence for belief—while going to extreme lengths to try to explain it away. So, it doesn't really matter how strong the evidence is—atheists will always look for a way to disbelieve. Although the Bible does not give a detailed explanation of the creation of the universe, it does tell us that God "spreads out the heavens" (an expanding universe)7 and that the visible parts were made from the invisible (Hebrews 11:3),8 both ideas supported by modern cosmology. Why did God want to create the universe? According to the Bible, God wanted to spend eternity with other spiritual creatures so that they could share love among one another. However, God did not want to force those spiritual beings to love Him, but gave them a choice by creating a temporary universe where such choices could be made. For more information on biblical models for creation, see our Biblical Creation section.
Let's say that Christianity is true and that God wanted to create a world in which He could perform creation miracles and occasional other miracles, but with reliable physical laws, that insure an experience of consistent causes and effects for creatures living in this creation. The perfect solution to the design problem is to make the creation subject to both time and quantum mechanics. Since God is not subject to time, He can manipulate quantum events to perform miracles, including those that create new designs composed of matter. However, at the macro level, quantum mechanics does not interfere with the principle of cause and effect. Although we can discover God's "secret" we are unable to manipulate the system to perform god-like miracles, because we are subject to the limitations of time.
Atheists say they have the answer to why there is something rather than nothing—the nothing created it! However, their explanation takes science and turns it on its head—performing miracles of creation through unknown physics or mechanisms that are extremely unlikely to occur. The simplest explanation for the existence of all the something we see is that an extremely intelligent being, God, willed it to happen for His own purposes, and left evidence of that purpose in the nature of His creation and His communication with the creatures He created. The important things in life are not derived from the stuff we can see, but from the One who created it.
The heavens declare His righteousness, And all the peoples have seen His glory. (Psalms 97:6)
The Fine-Tuning of the Universe for Intelligent Life by Luke A. Barnes - Physicist Professor Luke Barnes takes apart Victor Stenger's claims against fine tuning.
God of the Gaps - Do All Christian Apologetics Fall Into This Kind of Argument?References
Dating is a major issue btwn YEC's and the old earth camp. My proffered hypothesis is that as Adam and Eve were created as fully adult, like in a second of accelerated time, so would the earth, but when Adam sinned, and death came, then he and the rest would test to be far older.
Matthew Pines answered this question beautifully.
If there are infinite possible universes and we are in one of them we could not know about our universe if there was nothing in it.
Since we do know about it there must be something in it.
There is no need to over complicate the analysis.
YEC’s and the old earth
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doesn’t directly appear in the equations for time dilation, it represents a fundamental limit on the smallest measurable time interval in our universe. Understanding time dilation at the Planck scale is a major challenge in theoretical physics, and further research is needed to fully grasp its implications.
In simpler terms:
The Planck time is the smallest unit of time that has physical meaning in our universe.
Time dilation is a phenomenon where time passes slower for an observer in motion or in a strong gravitational field.
At the Planck scale (where space and time are incredibly small), the nature of time dilation and the very concept of time itself become complex and are still being explored by physicists.
Understanding time dilation at the Planck scale is a key goal of quantum gravity research, aiming to unify our understanding of gravity and quantum mechanics.
it cut the 1st part
Planck time, which is a unit of time in physics derived from fundamental physical constants. While not directly related to the time dilation formula, it represents the smallest unit of time that has physical meaning according to our current understanding of the universe.
However, if you’re asking about time dilation within the context of the Planck scale, here’s what’s relevant:
1. Time dilation in general relativity:
Time dilation is a phenomenon predicted by Einstein’s theory of relativity, where time passes slower for an observer in a stronger gravitational field or moving at a significant fraction of the speed of light relative to another observer.
2. Planck time and the Planck scale:
The Planck time (tP) is defined as the time it takes light to travel the Planck length (lP), which is the smallest possible length scale according to quantum mechanics. It’s calculated as:
tP = √(ħG/c⁵)
where: ħ is the reduced Planck constant, G is the gravitational constant, and c is the speed of light.
1. Time dilation at the Planck scale:
At the Planck scale, where quantum gravity effects are expected to be significant, the concept of time dilation becomes more complex. While the formula for time dilation in special and general relativity can be applied, the nature of time itself may be different at such scales.
Nonsense!
Just a little something.
It’s nothing, really.
https://learn.ligonier.org/podcasts/ultimately-with-rc-sproul/out-of-nothing-nothing-comes
Ladies and gentlemen, if anything exists now—this is elementary—then there never could have been a time when there was nothing, because the most fundamental maxim of all reason and all science and all philosophy is the maxim, Ex nihilo nihil fit. “Out of nothing, nothing comes.”
If there were nothing, we wouldn’t be asking that question.
“Imagine that all that exists is by accident and without purpose.”
Terrence McKenna and Dr. Rupert Sheldrake joked among themselves that science allowed for one great miracle (the Big Bang)
Hmmmm.... that suggests to me that the oscillating universe models I was taught in school is off. If there are repeat big bangs, then the expansion after the most recent bang would be slowing down to eventually stop expanding, then start contracting, and wind back up in another point singularity to eventually bang again.
But the accelerating expansion suggests to me a one-time big bang. If all of the fine-tuning necessary for life ain't right this time, there's not infinite future big bangs hoping it's right some other time. This looks like evidence for design to me to make sure things are right in this only shot we get for life.
Either the universe always existed, or it was created. If it was created, it was by a being outside of the universe.
“Something from nothing” is not possible.
Just because we don't know the cause doesn't mean there is no cause.
Ligonier? How did he come up with that name?
No one ever hailed as a great philosopher or revelator by saying he has no idea what is going on.
And that is the reason none of the great philosophers admit that.
According to the website for the ministry, his "ministry began as a study center near a small town called Ligonier in Western Pennsylvania. Dr. Sproul was born and raised in the Pittsburgh area, so it was natural for him to begin his public ministry there."
TY
Confucius said that the beginning of wisdom is the phrase-“ I do not know”
Whoops my bad- that quote is attributed to Socrates
And exactly WHAT is the purpose of all this?
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