Posted on 10/16/2024 9:51:11 AM PDT by Angelino97
It depends. If you mean, “What happens to those who die rejecting Christ?” the Church’s answer is uncompromising: They will go to hell.
But no one goes to hell by accident. If someone is simply ignorant of the name of Christ through no fault of his own, there is no sin in that. He has not rejected Christ. Moreover, we know Christ is not constrained by our knowledge. He can work in a heart even when that heart is only dimly aware of it.
Jesus speaks of this in the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. The ones judged here are “the nations”—those outside the visible communion of the Church. How are they judged? By the way they responded to Christ when he came to them in disguise. “I was sick and you visited me; hungry, and you fed me; thirsty and you gave me something to drink.” How do the sheep and the goats respond? With surprise.
The point is, we may not know it, but Christ comes to us even when we don’t (or can’t) come to him. This is why the Church counsels us to hope and pray for the dead. We must not pretend we know what God is up to in the lives of others. We know where the Church is. We do not know where it is not.
well, BB — Stanne believes in Jesus.
Jesus set up a Church , ecclesia i.e. community of believers in 33 AD - that is the Catholic and Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian Church.
The core beliefs are encapsulated quite well in the Nicene creed.
the 5 points of Calvinism fail the scripture test
1. TOTAL depravity - Romans 3:10 say that no one is righteous, not that everyone is a DEPLORABLE.
Good people who die without believing are different from those who actively reject God.
actually, circlecity - Francis didn’t say that —
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43596919
the Vatican said “no quotations” in the article “should be considered as a faithful transcription” of the Pope’s words.
But I do agree with you that Frankie needs to go. He has too many off-the-cuff comments
I have faith in Jesus, that He knows all about each person and what to do.
That’s the Vatican’s go to response whenever the Pope says something out there. “It was a mistranslation”.
I once posed this question to our family’s traditionalist Catholic priest when I was a teenager, I had just turned 18 years old.
There is a mafia mob boss. He is Catholic and believes in God, goes to mass, makes confessions although perhaps not completely honestly.
He has ordered the murder of several people, killed a few people himself, oversees an empire of gambling, extortion, theft rings, political bribery, prostitution including that of underage girls and boys, drug dealing, and has cheated on his wife many, many times with women he often treats miserably, beating them and discarding them when they bored him. And he is alternately abusive or neglectful of his children unless it involves writing checks to get into a good school or getting them out of trouble. He gives to charity but only if he gets the positive PR and press for it.
He knows deep down that what he is doing is wrong but his greed and need to be in control, to be seen as an all-powerful man is too strong for him to go straight, even as one of his priests had asked him to over the years.
He sins, asks for forgiveness and then goes out and sins again. Sins over and over and over again.
But then in his final minutes alive, on his death bed, gasping his very last breaths, not so much wanting to be in the loving arms of his Savior but more so fearing going to and suffering in Hell, he calls for a priest, confesses to all his numerous sins and asks for forgiveness, makes an Act of Contrition and the priest gives him Last Rites.
On the other side of the world in an extremely rural and very remote part of India, lives a woman who is Hindu (or Buddhist). It’s the only religion she’s ever known. She’s perhaps only vaguely heard of Christianity and of Jesus if at all and knows pretty much nothing about Him. She’s never seen a Bible and even if she had, couldn’t read it because she’s illiterate. She’s never been evangelized or approached by any Christian missionaries. No one has ever taught or exposed her to anything different.
Yet she unknowingly follows many of Christ’s teachings.
While very poor herself, she gives to those less fortunate than herself, she attends to the sick and disabled in her village, shares her meager food with her neighbors if needed, takes care of both her and her husband’s elderly parents.
She once helped some European hikers (strangers) who got lost and invited them into her home and fed them without question or asking for anything in return and helped them find the road out.
She’s never cheated on her husband, never stolen anything, never cheated anyone, never told a lie, never cursed at anyone, never even raised her voice in anger and has turned the other cheek even when wronged herself and she has strived to teach her children to be kind and generous and honest.
Then after living a very long and exemplary life, she dies.
I asked the priest, “So you will have me believe that this Mafia boss eventually goes to Heaven and this Indian woman goes straight to Hell?”
He told me “As Jesus told us, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”” He also told me I was bordering on committing Heresy for even asking him such an insolent question.
I told him, “Father. I have to be honest with you. If your heaven is populated with people like the Mafia guy and not by people like the Indian woman, I’d rather suffer in a Hell alongside the truly good people you think should be condemned”.
Then I told my parents I would no longer go to Mass at our traditionalist Catholic church.
My mother was apoplectic but my father, while still going, supported my decision and said he didn’t disagree with me.
>>> “people here have an excuse to hate on the Catholic Church”<<<
>>>”We need an excuse? The anti-Pope does the job all by himself. Lol.”<<<
What a load of BS.
The Catholic bashing here, started long before this Marxist Pope was installed. It’s a favorite pastime for some people.
Does the rest of the the world have an excuse to hate and bash all Americans because our anti-American President does the job all by himself ?
Then can you explain in simple terms why it was so screwed up by the time John wrote Revelation?
Do Roman followers REALLY want to go there?
Good people who die without believing are different from those who actively reject God.
John 3:18
But Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Mark 10:18 NASB
Make up your mind.
Then what the hell DID he say??!!??
Well; without resources like the Rack and the Iron Maiden, what would you expect us to do?
Frankie said a mish-mash of word that are vague.
John wrote the book of the Apocalypse in around 64 AD.
It wasn’t “so screwed up” - it was in trouble as it was under pressure by
1. the Pharisees
2. the Sanhedrin
3. the secular authorities
it was nearly snuffed out
Jesus sent us a "helper', the Holy Spirit. He left us His Word (Bible) and the Holy Spirit. He knew that's all we needed. He didn't leave a denomination.The hierarchical Churchs that mega-preachers (including the Pope) really like running are the same kind of structured entities that convinced the Roman authorities to crucify Jesus. An informal gathering or at someones house is all that needs to be for a church service.
My posting history is littered with it. When I’ve said that I don’t believe in actual demons or Satan, I’m told I don’t believe the Bible and can’t call myself a Christian. The idea that there may be evolutionary processes built into Creation has been very threatening to some. When I’ve mentioned taking various other things symbolically, it’s been insinuated that I’m going to hell and should be afraid, very afraid. Within the last month someone took issue with my FR home page, for what I consider pretty benign and non-threatening thoughts.
I don’t know if it’s ego or a terrible, insecure need to assert the absolute supremacy of one’s own faith; but some people just can’t bear to let others believe differently without insulting them.
I Never talk about religion. I’m just going to make some one mad. Jesus talked about religion and looked what happened to him!
Sarcasm aside, somehow a RC reasons that the apostle longing to be with the Lord via martyrdom = absent from the body = does not mean to be present with the Lord. Even though "whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord" [versus] "to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord," (2 Corinthians 5:6-8) and all the believers will forever be so when the Lord returns. (1 Thes. 4:17) Thanks be to God.
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