Posted on 12/21/2023 1:58:22 PM PST by marcusmaximus
Russian war fanatics are enraged over an 'almost naked' party staged in Moscow by wealthy showbiz celebrities including Vladimir Putin's 'goddaughter'.
The 'debauched' gathering was likened to Sodom and Gomorrah by critics claiming the antics of the wealthy stars insulted those on the frontline in the Kremlin's illegal war against Ukraine.
Among the most visible guests was a pregnant and braless Ksenia Sobchak, 40, a TV presenter and 'liberal' Russian presidential candidate in 2018, in a nude-coloured Sorelle outfit.
She is known as Putin's goddaughter after he attended her baptism and viewed her late father Anatoly Sobchak as his political mentor.
-snip-
Putin's goddaughter later rejected criticism of the semi-naked party, saying: 'Maybe it was a bad party in your opinion.
'We wanted glamour and it turned out the way it did.
'Maybe you don't like to look at it all, but, sorry, where and when grown-ups go with a bare bum is their own business.
'The world isn't fair - it always has been this way, is and always will be.
'Somewhere people are being killed, somewhere children are starving, and somewhere else [people are] drinking champagne at the same time.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Did you note the source of the assertion?
But I did no such thing, thus your response is sophistry, and an illogical argument. Simply because Putin has some correct policies simply does not excuse his persecution of conservatives and employment of his state church puppet.
But even Zelenskyy has attacked religion
Irrelevant. I did not argue for Zelensky or Western morality, for my refutation was of your assertion that Christianity is now embraced there more than it is here. He would censor FR itself which the Left lusts to be able to do.
At least I haven't heard that Putin in stopping elections or religions.
What? Do you just get your news from pro-Russia propagandists?
Vladimir Putin's critics: Dead, jailed, exiled
Nerve agents, poison and window falls: A list of Putin's critics that have been attacked or killed
These are the prominent critics and enemies Putin is suspected of having killed
The Left does not have the extreme power, but instead uses judicial ways and means.
The truth of the matter is the sodomites & leftists have infiltrated religions, which is why US participation has declined rather rapidly.
Again, that is irrelevant, for I was not arguing in support of the immorality of the Left, but against the premise that Christianity is now embraced there more than it is here, which is simply not that case, and Putin only allows a Biblical form of religion to actually spread their faith. The West cannot do that yet.
You can provide all of the data you think supports your argument, but reality destroys your arguments.
To the absolute contrary - my substantiation remains in refutation of your promotion, as it is you who has no argument to defend your assertion. Lots of things were different in the 90s, compared to the realities in today's timeframe. In the 90s this nation was stronger financially & militarily. Neither strength today can compare to what they were in the 90s. Imagine the President of China, telling the president of the US, flat out, that China will take Taiwan at its discretion & timing.
Indeed, all of that is true, but that Christianity is now embraced there more than it is here is not, neither is the US more Christian than a country as the Marshall Islands, Saint Vincent and others.
The best thing for Russia would be an evangelical revival, and changed the government to be conservative like parts of colonial America.
Have a God night!
Wake up to reality. All you are doing is killing off the Ukrainian males.
“Okay, so you do understand that there are two ways to believe in a thing.”
Actually, there can be many; it just depends on how far out one wants to take it. Of course, the further out, the more implausible and ridiculous the options.
In your post #112, you said: “There are two kinds of spiritual belief. One is a conviction as to fact of the spiritual thing. The other has to do with trust and devotion to the spiritual thing.”
To which I responded, in my post #126, that : “FAITH is the conviction that one’s BELIEF is true;” and “…the latter — which you describe as involving trust and devotion to a spiritual thing — that is very much emotion-based. While trust requires a leap of faith (usually based on some foundation, real or imagined); devotion is strictly emotion-driven, as it requires dedication and loyalty, both of which are emotions.
So, you now say, “For the sake of clarity, we can label the type of belief having to do with trust and devotion as Type A. We’ll call belief in the fact of a matter Type B.”
You have actually flipped the order, but we’ll go with your labels: Type A, Trust and devotion to a spiritual thing; and, Type B, Faith that your Belief is true.
So far, so good.
But, then you go off the rails.
You say, “There are a couple of foundational flaws in your argument. The first is your assumption that your belief about spiritual belief itself is a Type B argument,”
Uh, no; it is YOUR assumption. Type B is pretty clear: Faith is the conviction that your belief is true. In other words, you BELIEVE that there is X, and you have FAITH that your belief that there is X is true. It requires no trust or devotion. You BELIEVE (think) your spouse is a good cook; and you have FAITH (hope) that she will continue to be one. You don’t trust her to be a good cook; you are not devoted t her because she’s a good cook.
Type B, on the other hand, relies heavily on both trust and devotion, especially the latter. And emotion is critical in Type B, because trust and emotion are very much emotion-based. You TRUST your spouse; and are DEVOTED to your spouse. Both are leaps of faith. Your spouse works long hours, and sometimes comes home late and goes straight to the bathroom and showers without even saying “Hi.” Your sister is visiting and says to you, in a whisper, “Do you ever think your wife is…you know…having an affair or something?” You LOVE (devotion) and TRUST your wife, and tell your sister, “No way.”
You give me the chuckles every time you post.
“You believe what you want to believe.”
Well, duh. It’s called free will.
“You do so at your own risk.”
Again, duh!
You sound like a zealot. Zealots are...well, emotional. Too much so. Not too long ago zealots burned at the stake people who dared hold a different thought or idea. I think you would have felt right at home in the 16th century.
Do you consider banning perverted sexual behavior as persecution? Because those who calculate persecution, take that into consideration.
I never said you did I asked if you believe that banning homosexual behavior is persecution. I then said that those calculating persecution would count it as persecution.
But I am not going to discussion everything you included because you bounced all across the board with your nonsense, including posts of others as if they as the gospel.
You post articles by the BBC about critics of Putin dying, which those articles hint at Putin's likely involvement, but again do not accuse him of direct involvement.
These are no facts, they are merely accusations that you buy as facts.
When I said that Christianity was embraced there more than here, I wasn't talking numbers. We have 3 times the population that Russia has. I was talking about being embraced by governments of all types in this nation of ours. The government honoring the rights of the citizens of this nation are under constant attack. In red states the governments are better, but when you go into the blue cities in those red states things become more shaky.
12/9/2022, 8:46:33 AM · by Timber Rattler · 2 replies The Guardian ^ | December 9, 2022 | Andrew Roth Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church
I find that little tidbit to be amusing, because I am always reading articles about little old ladies quietly standing within 500 feet of an abortion center with her head bowed, and a cop coming up to them asking what they are doing, her responding praying, and the cop arresting her. I have heard these stories in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and even here of people praying within a specified distance to an abortion clinic being arrested.
As for all of your irrelevant, comments they too are disingenuous in many places where you get into abortion numbers etc. to point out morality differences.
When I made this comment:
At least I haven't heard that Putin in stopping elections or religions.
Your retort back was:
What? Do you just get your news from pro-Russia propagandists?. Followed by 3 links which stated:
Vladimir Putin's critics: Dead, jailed, exiled
Nerve agents, poison and window falls: A list of Putin's critics that have been attacked or killed
These are the prominent critics and enemies Putin is suspected of having killed
None of those refute my comment which specifically mentioned elections & religion, and again all are accusations or insinuations hinting at Putin's involvement, they are not facts. The facts are these people died, but there is no proof of who did these killings, some of which could have been suicides. The one further up at least talked about Evangelizing Outside of Church
Your problem is that you don't necessarily understand what is being said, or you provide stuff you believe makes your case, but really doesn't
If I were to tell you that a girl born in 1975 and died at age 22 in 1975, would you understand?
You brought up all kinds of data on abortions, made numerical claims from decades ago. I never brought about abortions, you your claims that you didn't go down certain paths is just patently false. I never made claims about decades ago, I made statements regarding the deteriorating conditions that used to exist in the USSR, that are becoming more of a concern, in this ntion in this current time.
Besides that, as usual you are always wrong.
Bye for now, old fart.
You can have the last word if you like. I'm getting bored talking to you, and I think I will retire
-PJ
None. That's your fight Neocon, not mine.
Sobchak is the second daughter of the first democratically elected mayor of Saint Petersburg Anatoly Sobchak and Lyudmila Narusova, a Russian politician. Sobchak has described herself as being of part Jewish heritage.[1] Sobchak also revealed that she and her family experienced anti-Semitism.[1]
Looks to me the same people who have steered our American culture into the ditch are trying to do it in Russia too.
And first off I only argued ONE THING, which is that assertion that Christianity is now embraced there more than it is here - not who has the most persecution. But that the most Christian country bans sharing of faith except for a state church, with a KBG past, voting for an oppressor of them, is contrary to your careless claim.
You post articles by the BBC about critics of Putin dying, which those articles hint at Putin's likely involvement, but again do not accuse him of direct involvement. These are no facts, they are merely accusations that you buy as facts.
Rather, it is your denial of such that is a mere accusation. You really think you can absolve Putin of this on the basis of unproven direct involvement? As if direct involvement is necessary for such, and as if this elected dictator would allow investigation? Be realistic.
When I said that Christianity was embraced there more than here, I wasn't talking numbers. We have 3 times the population that Russia has. I was talking about being embraced by governments of all types in this nation of ours.
Neither was I talking numbers, but PERCENTAGES. Approx. 66% professing Christianity.
The government honoring the rights of the citizens of this nation are under constant attack. In red states the governments are better, but when you go into the blue cities in those red states things become more shaky.
Indeed I live and evangelize in MA - about as liberal as it gets - yet which is in stark contrast to Russia in which I would be arrested for doing so.
I find that little tidbit to be amusing, because I am always reading articles about little old ladies quietly standing within 500 feet of an abortion center with her head bowed, and a cop coming up to them asking what they are doing, her responding praying, and the cop arresting her
No, you always reading articles about that, which deplorable arrest was in the UK, and a Northern Irish MP has decried that arrest and English police apologized to her later and she will not be prosecuted, but it suppression of that within the bubble is wrong.
As abortion is, which ROs' are only marginally more opposed (48 percent) to in contrast to evangelicals, whom Putin - whom Orthodox elected - muzzles within the "bubble" called Russia
As for all of your irrelevant, comments they too are disingenuous in many places where you get into abortion numbers etc. to point out morality differences.
Rather, it is your support of Putin that is sophistry, as if research shows that Russia as embracing Christianity more than the US, and as if Russian Orthodox are actually Christian in practice (only 18% said they pray daily 55% of self-declared Orthodox believers affirmed fornication could be justified, and 30 percent of those who ID as RO did not even believe in the existence of God), which is like saying mainline Prots are mostly Christian
. At best, both countries equally profess Christianity, but about 24% of U.S. adults describe themselves as born-again or evangelical Protestant (though less are truly so), whom Putin muzzles even though they are conservative.
That said, if Putin ran for President here, if upholding the Constitution, then about 76-80% of evangelicals (at least over 24) would vote for him vs a Hillary of Biden, etc., as they did even for Romney and Mcain (and Trump), so opposed to the Left are they. I myself think the voting age should be raised to 25, and only for those with some proof of citizenship and residency.
But if the Left had the power of Putin, evangelicals who express opposition to him (as we do to the Left) and evangelize would already be hunted down as if they were Jan. 6 protesters (which is practice). When I made this comment: 'At least I haven't heard that Putin in stopping elections or religions.' Your retort back was: What? Do you just get your news from pro-Russia propagandists?. None of those refute my comment which specifically mentioned elections & religion,
What??? Are your serious? You mean Putin outlawing sharing of any faith aside from RO and elimination of serious political challenges to him is OK since it does not mean he actually stopped elections or religions?! Pure sophistry. Saddam Hussein also could make that claim.
and again all are accusations or insinuations hinting at Putin's involvement, they are not facts. The facts are these people died, but there is no proof of who did these killings,
More desperate defense of your hero. As if real investigation would be allowed if it incriminated him. Maybe you think Epstein's suicide is not be suspected as being induced or allowed, nor certain events related to the Clinton's due to lack of actual proof from official sources.
I never brought about abortions,
You mean you actually think such evidences as justifying fornication, broad support of abortion and suppression of the most conservative religious class under the Christian banner is not related to your assertion of Russia being more Christian than the US? Absurd.
I made statements regarding the deteriorating conditions that used to exist in the USSR, that are becoming more of a concern, in this ntion in this current time.
and Actually, there are still many deteriorating conditions in Russia that were a constant in the USSR, like suicide, that are becoming more of a concern in this nation in this current time, but which are only relevant as regards how they relate to that claim of having embraced Christianity.
As relates to that, no nation which votes for an oppressor of the most conservative major religious group under the title of Christianity (not that I think Catholics, mainline Prots or cults are truly so, nor all who are classed evangelical, are) can claim to be predominately Christian. Which neither Russia or the US are. Tragically so. And as America has been given more, so its judgment will be, and if the question was to be asked, would you rather be ruled by Russia or China", I dare say most evangelicals would choose Russia.
Both are fighting against God, but if you want to see some of my (somewhat dated ) stats on this, there are REVEALING STATISTICS (or, Present Costs of the War Against God)
Glad you enjoy your boy’s show. I’m am not surprised at all. Do you just enjoy political pervo trash or do you get your jollies watching all forms of pervo trash?
Utter BS, and here is the evidence destroying that false claim you made above:
In 1988, the country registered an abortion rate of 92.6 abortions/1000 women aged 15-49 (or 118 abortions/100 births). The yearly number of abortions in the USSR, some 6.5 million (according to official figures), accounts for 10-20% of all abortions performed worldwide. Independent sources put the yearly number of abortions at 10-11 million. - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12222340/
Note: the above is but one small example of what you actually brought to the discussion with regards to the abortion issue, which has zero to do with the various governments within the US embracing of religion and religious rights of citizens vs. Russian's embrace of their Christianity of choice, which you claimed above was the only thing you argued. You can make the argument that this topic has significance as to morality, but not to the topic of embracing Christianity.. But you offer no numbers for the US. When I brought up that Ukraine was no better than Russia on this topic you introduced, you claimed was irrelevant, as if you were not only a participant, but have now declared yourself as the moderator who has the power to decide what it relevant or not. Sorry, but you do not get to claim that role at all. I do not have the right to claim to that role either, but I haven't tried to lay claim that role.
In 1988 the USSR was still in existence, and abortion has nothing to do with embracing Christianity, but how many embrace abortion in the various sects of Christianity that exist in this nation? You also provide the numbers for the USSR, but conveniently omit any mention of the number of abortions in this country. Putin may have been in the KGB at that time, but he was not the Russian leader. That wouldn't come until December 21, 1999, when Yeltsin unexpectedly resigned and, according to the Constitution of Russia, Putin became Acting President of the Russian Federation. 2000-2004 was his first term as the elected president.
My point is, like so many others you mix USSR history and present it as Russian history under Putin's reign. It's aa patently dishonest argument.
Rather, it is your denial of such that is a mere accusation. You really think you can absolve Putin of this on the basis of unproven direct involvement? As if direct involvement is necessary for such, and as if this elected dictator would allow investigation? Be realistic.
You really are a person who thinks accusations are prima facia evidence of guilt. I sincerely hope you do not sit on juries in the US. You would make an excellent jurist in the Soviet Union where Soviet secret police chief Lavrentiy Beria proclaimed show me the person & I will give you the crime against him. Even more so, I hope you are never accused of a crime, and people who think like you, do not sit as jurists against you, especially if you are actually innocent. Because I believe in due process, here as apparently if you believe him to be unworthy of due process, due process should play no role in the determination of guilt or innocence. Just convict hm & move on. It sounds like you support the two-tiered justice system that Democrats operate under. Orange man (Trump) = Hitler, therefore it's okay to deny him due process. Can't find a crime against him, invent it to subvert the process and indict based upon bias. After all, it is necessary to keep Hitler out of the White House, especially since we escaped his presence during his first term. we had to steal the lection in 2020, but the ends justify the means to save Democracy.
For many people, however, “Orthodox” is basically a cultural identification label and does not necessarily imply adherence to specific religious doctrines—a Levada poll found that 30 percent of those who saw themselves as “Orthodox” did not even believe in the existence of God.
I have known several priests & pastors who were constantly questioning their own faith. There are many more who attend church who struggle with t their belief as well, in this country. You seem quite content to studies & such to bolster your argument, wile you totally ignore the realities. For example, religion has been removed from the entire education system, and in many ways speaking about Jesus in the public square has become suppressed.
I'll return to this which you provided, but this time I will include the entire text you provided:
Note: These are not presented as links. They are just bolded & underlined.
12/9/2022, 8:46:33 AM · by Timber Rattler · 2 replies The Guardian ^ | December 9, 2022 | Andrew Roth Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church | News ...
Christians are Severely Persecuted in Putin's Russia – But That Could ...
Christian Persecution Increasing in Russia - Christian News Headlines
Report: Non-Orthodox Christians Face 'Strong Discrimination' in Russia
Russia, other former Soviet republics persecuting Christians, new ...
Once again this is to prove that you introduce the topic of persecution to make your case of how bad Russian Christianity is. This has nothing to do with the embracing atopic at all. Like I said it is a presented to downplay Christianity as practiced in Russia. To argue otherwise, is totally disingenuous.
Following are links to stories detailing how Christianity is under attack with the targets being those who reject the push to normalize deviant sexual practices.
Attacks on Christians double since 2017
How long will I be allowed to remain a Christian?
Tracker: Over 350 Attacks on U.S. Catholic Churches Since May 2020
So, as we can see that in the US even the government is participating in the attacks upon Christianity. there are numerous examples of the same thing occurring in our northern neighbor Canada, as well as, the UK, Australia and other so-called western nations. In fact this has been occurring in nations around the world.
As for Russia, they are trying to keep out the elements who are trying to force Russia to accept the push being spread across the globe to normalize perversion & those who practice it. Africa is doing the same, as is the Middle East. Religions are caving & are accepting the push. However, within sects, there are those who are pushing back against this newly adopted trend.
But again, this is yet another example of how you ignore what is happening, except when it comes to being able to demonize Russia. It's almost as if you are willing to bear false witness if it involves Russia. Furthermore you refuse to find the context for their actions. In other words, you are quick to condemn before you even understand why they are doing what the press, the democrat arm of the Democrat Party, are wailing in anguish about. It makes me wonder if you even hold Christianity's historical teaching over the warped Christianity these false religious & national political leaders are trying to push upon the entire world.
In reality, you are a pretty scary person. You are not a person I would hold up as a model to fashion oneself as.
You are obviously free to provide your response, but I have seen more than enough to know you are not worth debating. I say this because I will not read your response, nor will I respond to it, for it is not worth my time to do so.
Have a blessed life, but you may want to reexamine how your view of Christianity really comports with the Bible. Not telling you what to do either, I offer it only as a suggestion.
“Glad you enjoy your boy’s show. I’m am not surprised at all. Do you just enjoy political pervo trash or do you get your jollies watching all forms of pervo trash?”
Did you even read my comment, clown? If you did, your reading comprehension is abysmal.
Because, kid, this is my exact comment: “They were both pretty tame, all things considered; and neither bothered me: The first was entertainment (not my taste; but obviously it appealed to others); the second was about what one might expect to see at a college house party.”
I said the skit was not my taste; but, for others, it is. In other words, it is not something I LIKE. But, it doesn’t BOTHER me.
Likewise, I don’t like abstract art; but it doesn’t bother me. I mean, there are many things I don’t like that don’t bother me.
You’re unhinged, kid.
And first off I only argued ONE THING, which is that assertion that Christianity is now embraced there more than it is here - not who has the most persecution. But that the most Christian country bans sharing of faith except for a state church, with a KBG past, voting for an oppressor of them, is contrary to your careless claim.Utter BS, and here is the evidence destroying that false claim you made above: In 1988, the country registered an abortion rate of 92.6 abortions/1000 women aged 15-49 (or 118 abortions/100 births). The yearly number of abortions in the USSR, some 6.5 million (according to official figures), accounts for 10-20% of all abortions performed worldwide. Independent sources put the yearly number of abortions at 10-11 million. - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12222340/
My point is, like so many others you mix USSR history and present it as Russian history under Putin's reign. It's aa patently dishonest argument.
Rather, that very dated USSR statistic - which is an exceeding high rate, was part of a comparative compilation, which preceded:
Historical abortion statistics, Russia compiled by Wm. Robert Johnston last updated 29 July 2023
abortion ratio all in country 1938 102.8
1958 1,397.3
1965: 2,744.7
1995: 2,058.1
2005 1,183.6
2015 437.1
2022: 302.4 [all but about 70k are listed as legal] - https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-russia.html
Oct 27, 2023 Abortion restrictions in Russia spark outrage [esp. among the Left in the West] as the country takes a conservative turn. - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/abortion-restrictions-in-russia-spark-outrage-as-the-country-takes-a-conservative-turn
And an abortion rate of 302.4 in your greater majority Christian"country is still very high:
Approximately 26 million legal and 20 million illegal abortions were performed worldwide in 1995, resulting in a worldwide abortion rate of 35 per 1,000 women aged 15-44. Among the subregions of the world, Eastern Europe had the highest abortion rate (90 per 1,000) and Western Europe to the lowest rate (11 per 1,000). - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14627053/
Thus, once again, rather than a valid counter argument, you are simply left more confirmation that your greater majority Christian country is not.
# Country Abortion Rate Abortion Laws 1 Russia 53.7 On Request 2 Vietnam 35.2 On Request 3 Kazakhstan 35 On Request 4 Estonia 33.3 On Request 5 Belarus 31.7 On Request 6 Romania 27.8 On Request 7 Ukraine 27.5 On Request 8 Latvia 27.3 On Request 9 Cuba 24.8 On Request 10 People's Republic of China 24.2 On Request 11 Hungary 23.4 On Request 12 Mongolia 21.7 On Request 13 Seychelles 21.6 To Preserve Health 14 Bulgaria 21.3 On Request 15 United States of America 20.8 On Request - https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/abortion-rate-by-country/ ; https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/abortion-rates-by-country
Note: the above is but one small example of what you actually brought to the discussion with regards to the abortion issue, which has zero to do with the various governments within the US embracing of religion and religious rights of citizens vs. Russian's embrace of their Christianity of choice, which you claimed above was the only thing you argued. You can make the argument that this topic has significance as to morality, but not to the topic of embracing Christianity..
Which again is an absurd, fallacious argument, based upon the definitive literary source of the term "Christian," for as the Lord states, "ye shall know them by their fruits." (Matthew 7:16) And James, "I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:18) Every-thing we choose to do or want to is due to what we truly believe - at least at the moment.
And thus no country which consistently supports liberal abortion rights and votes for pols who do so, and have leading abortion rate, can claim to be a majority Christian country - which the US no longer is. But neither is Russia, nor more so than the US (yet), contrary to your claim, which was the issue in my refutation. And in which support for abortion, fornication etc. is part of, for such fruit is part of what evidences what one believes.
But you offer no numbers for the US...how many embrace abortion in the various sects of Christianity that exist in this nation? You also provide the numbers for the USSR, but conveniently omit any mention of the number of abortions in this country.
My error, thus see above, (last row), while I had stated:
The majority of white mainline Protestants (60%) and black Protestants (64%) say abortion should be legal in all or most cases. By contrast, 77% of white evangelical Protestants say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. Among Catholics, more say abortion should be legal (56%) than illegal (42%) in all or most cases. Those who are not affiliated with a religion are among the most supportive of legal abortion: 83% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases. - https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2019/08/29/u-s-public-continues-to-favor-legal-abortion-oppose-overturning-roe-v-wade/Which is actually very relevant since if the issue is which country is the most Christian, then Christianity must be defined by the the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels). Which negates most RCs and Orthodox and their churches, as well as mainline Prots in the West, leaving evangelicals with the largest remnant %wise.
Thus the debate should be, what % of Russia versus the US are evangelical.
I will thus add this:
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/05/06/americas-abortion-quandary/
When I brought up that Ukraine was no better than Russia on this topic you introduced, you claimed was irrelevant, as if you were not only a participant, but have now declared yourself as the moderator who has the power to decide what it relevant or not. Sorry, but you do not get to claim that role at all.
That is also frankly non-sense. In a debate the participants have the right to critique arguments, which i did, for bring in Ukraine when the issue what which country has embraced Christianity the most is indeed irrelevant, unlike citing evidence of Christian faith, or lack thereof.
You really are a person who thinks accusations are prima facia evidence of guilt.
No, that is another false assertion, for did not more accusations, but it is far more than coincidence that so many political opponents disappear, die or are imprisoned. Meanwhile, by your rule, you must believe lack any atual evidence that all died naturally means "official" statements are true. Except when it is US liberals whose enemies die, disappear.
Because I believe in due process, here as apparently if you believe him to be unworthy of due process,
Which is an argument against Russia, in which "due process" is a position wanting of proof to the contrary of reports.
It sounds like you support the two-tiered justice system that Democrats operate under. Orange man (Trump) = Hitler, therefore it's okay to deny him due process.
It sadly is two-tiered justice, but so is a fair justice system under Putin. At least they are not in a the Russian prison system for protesting without money for bribes.
, but the ends justify the means to save Democracy.
Yes, as the Bee parody, "we have to suspend Democracy to save Democracy. Provoke protests, then hunt down the very few who resort to violence, and then class all conservatives as terrorists.
I have known several priests & pastors who were constantly questioning their own faith. There are many more who attend church who struggle with t their belief as well, in this country. You seem quite content to studies & such to bolster your argument, wile you totally ignore the realities. For example, religion has been removed from the entire education system, and in many ways speaking about Jesus in the public square has become suppressed.
Once again, you are ignore the reality that in arguing for how Christian a country is, then the term must be defined. Thus again, the debate should be, what % of Russia versus the US are evangelical.
Once again this is to prove that you introduce the topic of persecution to make your case of how bad Russian Christianity is. This has nothing to do with the embracing atopic at all. Like I said it is a presented to downplay Christianity as practiced in Russia. To argue otherwise, is totally disingenuous.
Seriously - it is inextricably part of the topic of what degree a country is Christian! Unless your leader and his gov. are not elected by the people (China), then their votes reflect what they believe, relative to the options given them. Thus as said, evangelicals have voted about 86 top 80% for the conservative candidate for decades, though the terms has been watered down, and the ignorant youth are increasingly not like their forefathers.
So, as we can see that in the US even the government is participating in the attacks upon Christianity.
Which meas supporters of such are not Christian, or are ignorant.
It's almost as if you are willing to bear false witness if it involves Russia.
To the contrary, it is your imaginary image of Russia as the most Christian that is a false witness, and invoking the enemies of Christians here and who do not support them would only help you if could show that Putin did not also oppress evangelicals and or that they were a larger % of Russia than in the US. As said, I would be censored and likely arrested in your greater majority country.
you are quick to condemn before you even understand why they are doing what the press, the democrat arm of the Democrat Party, are wailing in anguish about.
Dude, read my posting history. I am daily informed of that, and have years of much documentation, by the grace of God.
It makes me wonder if you even hold Christianity's historical teaching over the warped Christianity these false religious & national political leaders are trying to push upon the entire worl
More ignorance, despite the massive documentation available to you via the site I linked to already. Best to read it.
In reality, you are a pretty scary person. You are not a person I would hold up as a model to fashion oneself as.
In reality, your posts are alarming ignorant, and lacking in knowledge of Christianity, and objectivity and of debate.
You absolutely should reexamine how your view of Christianity really comports with the Bible - and believe it.
The redeemed are those who come to God as sinners knowing their desperate need of salvation - not as souls saved by their works or religious heritage, but as destitute of any means or merit whereby they may find salvation - and with a humble and penitent heart (that at least implicitly wants a new life following Christ) believe on the crucified and risen Lord Jesus who alone can save them on His account, by His sinless shed blood and righteousness. (Romans 3:9 - 5:1
And who are thus baptized to follow the Lord Jesus with persevering faith (John 10:27-29; Acts 8:12; Ephesians 1:7; 2:8-10) - and who confess sin with effectual repentance when they are convicted by conscience of doing or being the opposite. (Psalms 32:5, 6; 51:3; Hosea 5:15; 1 John 1:9)
For effectual penitent, heart-purifying, regenerating faith, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9) is that which is imputed for righteousness. (Romans 4:5) All those who came to God with this faith are those whom the Spirit of God thus spiritually baptized into the body of Christ, the church. (1 Cor. 12:13)
And those who die in that obedient faith will go to be forever with Him at death or His return (Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; Heb, 12:22,23; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) In contrast to those who were never born of the Spirit or who terminally fall away. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12; 10:25-39)` May God grant you “repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.” (2 Timothy 2:25)
Once again, abortion has nothing to do with the topic of embracing religion by the governments. You seem to be stuck on stupid with regards to what I actually said and what you interpreted as what I said.
You really need to limit your response to that which you claimed yo were addressing, which supposedly was to refute my claim that Russia embraces religion more than this nation does, and that I qualified further that I was speaking in terms of the government, not the citizens. You can not reach back to Soviet times, because that regime is separate that that of Russia, because Josef Stalin was from Georgia who overthrew the Russian Tsar and installed a communist nation. That communist nation fell in 1991, and Putin did not ascend to the office of the presidency until the last day of 1999 when Yeltsin suddenly stepped down & Putin was elevated to acting President as their constitution made provisions to continue the Russian nation. Putin was not duly elected an installed as elected President until some date in 2000. I only mention Putin, because you have as big a problem with him as you do Russia since he invaded Ukraine because NATO was bringing the threat to their own border. If you think that this nation would not react to protect this nation, at least under a normal leader which precludes Biden because he is a usurper who is occupying the White House as the result of a fraudulent election, if say the Chinese loaded weapons of mass destruction along the US southern border.
May God grant you “repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.” (2 Timothy 2:25)
You got me there bro, but the truth is certainly not coming to me through you.
It still doesn't change the fact that you need to reexamine your understanding of Christianity and how it comports with the Bible's teachings.
You can have the last word if you desire , but your tactic is just to throw as much nonsense at the wall as possible to see what might stick. It is presented in a fashion that is disjointed at best and includes volumes in order to try and prolong the agony of reading the garbage you provide. I no longer care to engage in discussion with you, because you keep making arguments to counter arguments that I never stated or even implied in the first place, such as the morality of the citizens. Abortions have no relevance on the embracement of Christianity by the respective governments, for they speak more to the morality of those engaging in those activities. But abortion doesn't speak well for the morality of either nation, because neither nation puts any constraints upon the access to abortions.
No, I didn’t until you just asked. Now I know it was one of the local anti-Russia shills, which tells me you probably meant it in an entirely different way.
I think it’s best if we try to keep things concise and to the point. (Remember the old saying, brevity is the soul of wit?)
The best synopsis of our discussion is: passion always precedes intellect in the formation of belief, including in the formation of your own belief from post #86 that “spirituality is simply emotion writ large.”
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4205025/posts?page=86#86
Once again, you are displaying gross ignorance of the Bible. Since your faith is shown by your choices, and since the governments at issue here are elected, then what the religious do and vote for shows what they believe, given a choice. RO's support abortion far, far more than evangelicals, who overwhelming support the pro-life Presidential candidate, while Orthodox itself is a corrupted faith with a false gospel of baptismal regeneration via proxy faith , not preaching the essential gospel of the NT church. And although evangelicalism overall in the West has much become comprised, its basic gospel of that which Peter preached and the NT affirmed. (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9)
Thus, not only does research not show Russia has more people than the US, but evangelicals make up a far greater % of religious in the US, thus showing the US yet has more actual Christians.
It still doesn't change the fact that you need to reexamine your understanding of Christianity and how it comports with the Bible's teachings.
And which accusation you have utterly failed to substantiate, nor can.
You can have the last word if you desire..I no longer care to engage in discussion with you,
You expressed that before, yet insist on posting much nonsense to see what might stick.
Abortions have no relevance on the embracement of Christianity by the respective governments,
Which non-sense is part of the above.
“The best synopsis of our discussion is: passion always precedes intellect in the formation of belief...”
No; you are introducing an absolute: ALWAYS. Sometimes it is the reverse: Intellect precedes passion.
“...including in the formation of your own belief from post #86 that ‘spirituality is simply emotion writ large.’”
And I stand by that, because spirituality is quite distinct from intellectualism; and is — at its very core — emotional; indeed, it can’t be otherwise.
The psychologist William James defined spirituality as “the feelings, acts, and experiences of individual men in their solitude, so far as they apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine.”
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