Replies

“Okay, so you do understand that there are two ways to believe in a thing.”

Actually, there can be many; it just depends on how far out one wants to take it. Of course, the further out, the more implausible and ridiculous the options.

In your post #112, you said: “There are two kinds of spiritual belief. One is a conviction as to fact of the spiritual thing. The other has to do with trust and devotion to the spiritual thing.”

To which I responded, in my post #126, that : “FAITH is the conviction that one’s BELIEF is true;” and “…the latter — which you describe as involving trust and devotion to a spiritual thing — that is very much emotion-based. While trust requires a leap of faith (usually based on some foundation, real or imagined); devotion is strictly emotion-driven, as it requires dedication and loyalty, both of which are emotions.

So, you now say, “For the sake of clarity, we can label the type of belief having to do with trust and devotion as Type A. We’ll call belief in the fact of a matter Type B.”

You have actually flipped the order, but we’ll go with your labels: Type A, Trust and devotion to a spiritual thing; and, Type B, Faith that your Belief is true.

So far, so good.

But, then you go off the rails.

You say, “There are a couple of foundational flaws in your argument. The first is your assumption that your belief about spiritual belief itself is a Type B argument,”

Uh, no; it is YOUR assumption. Type B is pretty clear: Faith is the conviction that your belief is true. In other words, you BELIEVE that there is X, and you have FAITH that your belief that there is X is true. It requires no trust or devotion. You BELIEVE (think) your spouse is a good cook; and you have FAITH (hope) that she will continue to be one. You don’t trust her to be a good cook; you are not devoted t her because she’s a good cook.

Type B, on the other hand, relies heavily on both trust and devotion, especially the latter. And emotion is critical in Type B, because trust and emotion are very much emotion-based. You TRUST your spouse; and are DEVOTED to your spouse. Both are leaps of faith. Your spouse works long hours, and sometimes comes home late and goes straight to the bathroom and showers without even saying “Hi.” Your sister is visiting and says to you, in a whisper, “Do you ever think your wife is…you know…having an affair or something?” You LOVE (devotion) and TRUST your wife, and tell your sister, “No way.”