Posted on 05/07/2023 7:44:16 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
Secondary bacterial infection of the lung (pneumonia) was extremely common in patients with COVID-19, affecting almost half the patients who required support from mechanical ventilation. By applying machine learning to medical record data, scientists found that secondary bacterial pneumonia that does not resolve was a key driver of death in patients with COVID-19. It may even exceed death rates from the viral infection itself.
The scientists also found evidence that COVID-19 does not cause a "cytokine storm," so often believed to cause death.
"Our study highlights the importance of preventing, looking for and aggressively treating secondary bacterial pneumonia in critically ill patients with severe pneumonia, including those with COVID-19," said senior author Dr. Benjamin Singer.
The investigators found nearly half of patients with COVID-19 develop a secondary ventilator-associated bacterial pneumonia.
"Those who were cured of their secondary pneumonia were likely to live, while those whose pneumonia did not resolve were more likely to die," Singer said. "Our data suggested that the mortality related to the virus itself is relatively low, but other things that happen during the ICU stay, like secondary bacterial pneumonia, offset that."
The study findings also negate the cytokine storm theory, said Singer.
"The term 'cytokine storm' means an overwhelming inflammation that drives organ failure in your lungs, your kidneys, your brain and other organs," Singer said. "If that were true, if cytokine storm were underlying the long length of stay we see in patients with COVID-19, we would expect to see frequent transitions to states that are characterized by multi-organ failure. That's not what we saw."
The study analyzed 585 patients in the intensive care unit (ICU) at Northwestern Memorial Hospital with severe pneumonia and respiratory failure, 190 of whom had COVID-19.
(Excerpt) Read more at medicalxpress.com ...
Vent patients were unable to communicate. MANY CHOKED TO DEATH ON PHLEGM. HAD BOTH WRISTS TIED DOWN. MANY HAD COPD. Covid vent patients had no relatives in ICU.
I just went through this with my Eldest 52, he had a Quad Bypass, and they left the TRACH TUBE IN. He nearly STRANGLED to death not being able to communicate. We watched in horror as he started choking, WE were allowed in 15 MINS IN ICU, THE NURSE WAS OUTSIDE THE DOOR, INPUTING HER INFO INTO HER MINI COMPUTER. NOT WATCHING HIM. WE HAD TO GET HER BUTT. AND MAKE HER UNTIE HIS WRISTS AND CALL FOR THE SUCTION TEAM, THIS WENT ON FOR 30 MINS.
CORRECT!
"The investigators found nearly half of patients with COVID-19 develop a secondary ventilator-associated bacterial pneumonia."
The study findings also negate the cytokine storm theory, said Singer. "
""Those who were cured of their secondary pneumonia were likely to live, while those whose pneumonia did not resolve were more likely to die," Singer said.
"Our data suggested that the mortality related to the virus itself is relatively low,
but other things that happen during the ICU stay, like secondary bacterial pneumonia, offset that."
"The study findings also negate the cytokine storm theory, said Singer."
"Secondary bacterial infection of the lung (pneumonia) was extremely common in patients with COVID-19,
affecting almost half the patients who required support from mechanical ventilation.
By applying machine learning to medical record data,
scientists found that secondary bacterial pneumonia that does not resolve was a key driver of death in patients with COVID-19.
It may even exceed death rates from the viral infection itself.
(My Comment) : Interesting that only allowed, CDC recommended hospital medical protocol called for remdesivir and ventilator
"The investigators found nearly half of patients with COVID-19 develop a secondary ventilator-associated bacterial pneumonia."
As FReeper 'dadfly' said (!/8/21):" the “protocols of death” happen under illegitimate authority given in ignorance to so called “expert opinion” completely without informed consent.
it is authority given without proper checks or vetting."
I would add only that to recognize only a single protocol, without any consideration for alternatives, led up to this unfortunate, but preventable, situation
The "Kancel Kulture", coercion, and threat of losing your medical license contributed to this singular protocol 'mindset'
In the future,in case of another outbreak of an infectious virus, going to hospital could be dangerous to your health
The medical establishment itself has destroyed any credibility it had. It has given us not only no reason not to trust it, but has given us a plethora of reasons to NOT trust it ever again.
Trust lost like that is virtually impossible to regain.
You obviously did NOT read my post correctly maybe you should read the damn thing AGAIN, the healthcare workers were screaming about the vents!! JEEZE learn to read for goodness sakes!!!
Sad as all this really is, my takeaway is, again, that all these “experts” don’t jack. All these “experts” running around on the networks saying this and that and 99% of what they said was conjecture at best, and nonsense designed to fit a political narrative at worst. Mostly the latter as they then labored to take down those who were truly looking for answers, or questioned the “expert” narratives.
Funny. I didn’t see the word ‘autopsy’ once. That’s the only way to determine how someone died, if a body is still available. But it was an uncommon practice because the CDC required the highest protection rating, with pressurized suit, to do autopsies of suspected CoVID cases.
I was diagnosed with pneumonia secondary to COVID and Legionella in 12/20. I was in icu 10 days or so, refused intubation/vent but did receive bipap (which is a positive pressure mask with O2.)
The Legionella was somewhat a surprise.
I had some long COVID for a time.
| In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled What really killed COVID-19 patients: It wasn't a cytokine storm, suggests study (Secondary bacterial pneumonia from ventilators), gas_dr wrote: |
Here I can help with the names. Ransom Note. Jane Long. Bagster. And all the other Q believers. Sadly the proof of no cytokine storm means that the whole ivermectin and HCQ basis just died. Of course some are not smart enough to realize this instead gloating if their ongoing fake knowledge |
No. What bizarre reasoning. Many people who were sick and took HCQ/AZ or Ivermectin got well. The PCR 'test' was invalid so we don't know what illness they had, but we DO know the CDC protocol denied them all treatment if docs thought they had Covid.
Terart's doctor wouldn't give her any medications for the illness making her so sick. She called the hospital and they told her 'no medications' and that it would be ventilator only. Her only chance was to self-medicate, but she didn't take sufficient doses Ivermectin for a sufficient duration. When she was finally hospitalized, she never received treatment - just ventilator, and she died. I wish you had not warned her away from trying more Ivermectin - it could have saved her life, and it's certainly got an outstanding safety profile.
Obviously, some people need additional prescriptions tailored to their needs, but the CDC protocol was to deny sick people treatment.
Here are some personal accounts of Ivermectin use from Q thread FReepersIn:
Poster: StevenW
Anecdote: Two friends at the brink of hospitalization quickly recovered using IVM.
Poster: Wegelhof
Anecdote: Wife and I had Covid/ pneumonia. We started IVM on Saturday. By Monday we were human.
Poster: Little Jeremiah
Anecdote: My friend J., age 40, got sick to the point of coughing up blood. IVM and Azithromiacin helped him within hours. He was very much better next day. Wife thinks it saved him. Husband and I got sick and used IVM and have recovered.
Poster: Cheshire the Cat
Anecdote: Aunt refused Rundeathisnear and Ventilator in hospital after learning about the facts. She still refuses to be vaccinated. SO took swine version of IVM and recovered.
Poster: Sheepwhisperer
Anecdote: Chris, age 52, had a 103* fever and was ill for nine days. Fever abated after two days of IVM, vitamin C, zinc, et al. He said, “You saved my life, bro.”
Poster: Grammy
Anecdote: Mr. And Mrs. G. had very slight cases and they attribute it to IVM. Also, a friend fighting cancer was told about IVM and her cancer is shrinking. A friend’s daughter had long-term Covid and is getting IV NAC and it is helping tremendously.
Poster: Gritty
Anecdote: Heidi W. was ready to go to ER with Covid. She began recovering four hours after IVM. Two weeks later she was 100% using the FLCCC protocol. Dave W. (Heidi’s husband) was in ICU/Isolation. His wife got some IVM into him. He refused Remdesivir and ventilator. He continued to deteriorate and hospital ordered palliative care. Heidi W. convinced doctor to give Dave IVM and he recovered.
Poster: Melian
Anecdote: Ed S., age 58, had severe Covid in the early days of the pandemic. His doctors gave him IVM (before it had been banned) and he recovered fully. He said, “That IVM is amazing stuff. I felt great!”
My brother, age 61, was hospitalized with Covid/pneumonia. Doctors wanted to start Remdesivir and ventilator, but he refused. His wife brought IVM to him and he took it surreptitiously. In three days, he signed himself out of the hospital despite medical protestations. After two months, he is completely recovered. He says IVM is a gift from God.
Poster: I_be_tc
Anecdote: equine vet’s husband was very sick. She picked up IVM pills at 9pm. Two days later, her hubby was playing on the floor with little son and she was much better as well.
What actually died was the 'narrative' you've been protecting, and still protect to this day. You're not a real doctor but here you are, judging FReepers for saving themselves when doctors and hospitals stopped treating sick people, and followed the CDC protocol of no medication unless it was something like the sedative used in executions, midazolam, prescribed during Covid to keep patients quiet.
What bizarre spin you trolls are employing. I posted MANY threads about how the CDC's protocol was killing people. This does nothing to 'destroy' the information FReepers shared to save themselves. Ivermectin works, HCQ/AZ works - that's why the CDC/FDA/NIH made sure we couldn't have them.
This thread's news about cytokine storm further undermines 'the narrative' you protect out of loyalty to Fauci and the CDC, and you people are shrieking it destroys the knowledge FReepers shared to help themselves when hospitals were using deadly protocols and doctors wouldn't prescribe medications to sick people.
“Our study highlights the importance of preventing, looking for and aggressively treating secondary bacterial pneumonia in critically ill patients with severe pneumonia, including those with COVID-19”
Well no kidding. You would think a competent M.D. would know this.
AFAIK no one here came up with “cykotine storm” That was health care professionals. THEY are the ones whose lame claim was that “there’s no treatment that can stop this”. Not anyone on Free Republic. With possible exceptions from the shot shills. I’m not going through all your posts. Or others.
Maybe I’m reading it wrong(but I think not), that this study said ventilators did more harm than good.
Heck. Maybe this study is just B.S. But it’s sad to me that somehow you can come out and say “See, I told you all along!”
Talk about reinventing history.
Got any details on the relation of ACE2 receptors to intracellular glutathione, please?
It all makes a lot of sense from the hospital financial point of view.
Forget the massive lawsuits that are already starting to gin up. When do the criminal trials start?
There are actually quite aggressive protocols around preventing VAP and have been for a long time. Weaning of sedation, awakening daily, early mobilization, oral care and trach in seven days are staples of these protocols. The problem was Covid gave such an impressive ARDS that high pressures were required to oxygenate the body. This means you can’t easily perform a trach. It was a hell of a catch 22. Let them die from ARDS and critical hypoxemia (life ending hypoxemia) or vent them knowing that high pressures were going to be likely
As for cytokine storm there was a period of many months when the usual folks couldn’t get off the topic and trumpeted this is why HCQ and IVM work. We used some IL-6 inhibitors as well but they didn’t do squat either. This study confirms those observations if correct.
Wow you conflate a bunch of things and misquote me
Shrug and move on was relative to what the population is doing. So your shameless lying and quoting out of context shows your intent to deceive. Quite a liberal you are
Medical malpractice is not an untoward outcome. It is a violation of a duty and standard of care. MVS is a standard of care in the treatment of ARDS
Jesus doesn’t like it when you lie. And lie you have with intent and malice. For shame.
Well. Thanks for the anecdotes but this actual data with the actual story demonstrate then that those people with the anecdotal data were going to get well regardless and that the IVM and HCQ are a non-factor.
And as you continue to persist on the same topic Terat was advised to delay actual curative therapy to get IVM. Which now according to this study demonstrate its uselessness. But you would have to recall the arguments that were made instead of the pivots attempted here. The reason why some have become the paragon of this is what they always knew if because they have no foundational knowledge so whatever is said sounds good. But in that ignorance people forget what they argued.
This study is particularly harmful and confirms the studies that fall on the side of IVM and HCq being reasonable drugs based on the mechanisms discovered.
Funny. This is what real science looks like. Non predetermined explanations to results that are well designed and researched.
Please see these short videos (<20 minutes each) from Dr. Roger Schuelt from the UC Riverside Medical Center. They include the molecular biology of the virus, of glutathione, and how the virus and glutathione interact and counteract.
I know there's a lot here, but if you were serious in your ask, this should answer you.
This is the most medically heavy video, but sets the stage at the molecular biology level for the subsequent videos.
Coronavirus Pandemic Update 63: Is COVID-19 a Disease of the Endothelium (Blood Vessels and Clots)?
This video continues the discussion by focusing on the oxidative stress that results from lack of glutathione.
Coronavirus Pandemic Update 65: COVID-19 and Oxidative Stress (Prevention & Risk Factors)
This video focuses on NAC and Glutathione as a means to reduce oxidative stress.
Coronavirus Pandemic Update 69: "NAC" Supplementation and COVID-19 (N-Acetylcysteine)
Glutathione deficiency from oxidative stress is discussed.
Coronavirus Pandemic Update 70: Glutathione Deficiency, Oxidative Stress, and COVID 19
-PJ
Yes, they sometimes get pneumonia..It happens.
We check temps, xrays, mentation...labs all the time.
And some people with chronic DZ die. When we did everything right.
My wife and I watched a lot of his videos.
The NAC issue is real and this is what could have helped these people with ARDS.
Specifically, GlyNAC, adding glycine to NAC, is best.
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