Posted on 03/04/2023 5:33:00 PM PST by Jonty30
Although some contend that the Trinity contradicts the monotheism of the Hebrew Bible, in this podcast we show how the Torah reveals the mysterious unity of God and lays the theological foundation for belief in the Triune God. Dig deeper into the scriptures and let the roots of your faith be strengthened by this powerful podcast!
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
I was wrong on this point. Seems he ate bread, milk, and meat, but not fish.
Yes, the Torah could not make it clearer that there is one, indivisible God. Judaism does not believe that the creator and master of he universe operates using split-shifts. Such a notion is anathema to Judaism. You can poke around and look for foreshadowing as one might do in a literature graduate seminar, but that does not make it so.
Note to self to read more later.
Solo Scriptura is a Christian thing.
Modern rabbinical Judaism is based on acceptance of the Talmudic moral tradition.
Oral tradition. I hate autocorrect.
Isaish 53 testifies to the coming of the Messiah, but many Jews will not read that chapter, because it identifies too much with the Christ.
“Not the same. Judaism has one G-d, no “persons”.”
The Trinity is ONE God and if Judaism doesn’t believe in the personhood of God, then it doesn’t believe in God. By definition God is a Person.
Then the pagans have always been right and the Jews have always been wrong!
You might as well throw the Torah if that’s the case.
Then why does John 4:24 not mention God being physical? Why does it say he’s only Spirit?
Then show me the origins of the trinity. I can assure you it isn’t Jewish, but quite pagan.
If the Christians are correct in their theology, then God of the Jews is wrong, because even God says He’s not a man.
Where do we find Him saying that?
Bamidbar (Numbers) 23:19.
לֹ֣א אִ֥ישׁ אֵל֙ וִֽיכַזֵּ֔ב וּבֶן־אָדָ֖ם וְיִתְנֶחָ֑ם הַה֤וּא אָמַר֙ וְלֹ֣א יַֽעֲשֶׂ֔ה וְדִבֶּ֖ר וְלֹ֥א יְקִימֶֽנָּה
“God is not a man that He should lie, nor is He a mortal that He should relent. Would He say and not do, speak and not fulfill?”
That should end the discussion here and now. If you can’t believe His own words He speaks stating emphatically that He isn’t a man, then you’ll need to replace Him with your own man-god or a god-man or superman just like all of the ancient pagan gods of yore were, whether Roman, Greek, et al.
When the real Mashiach goes public he’s going to really anger the Christian world by stating that he isn’t God, never will be, and never has been. He will have the Spirit of God upon himself, but that does not in any way qualify him to be God.
God told Moshe Rabbenu that God isn’t man, isn’t divisible, isn’t physical, and is above this space/time continuum. Yet he’s closer to you, every one of you, than any man, woman nor child can be.
Avaraham Avinu did not talk to God in the flesh. Go study with the rabbis to find out with whom he was speaking.
God says He’s Spirit and told Moshe Rabbenu that and passed that basic, core tenant of Judaism down to present day with the rabbis.
Again, John 4:24 says “God is Spirit” and does not define Him any other way. Why didn’t it say He was also a man or physical in some way? That one little bit of simple, yet powerful truth is overlooked by Christians every day.
I’m not sure if you’re a casual observer in this or a fervent religionist (as I am for Torah Judaism) but my comment was that protestants bringing proofs for their beliefs from Kabbalah is tacit acceptance of Jewish Oral Law. So where it suits them, the Oral Law is valid. When it contradicts Christian theology, it’s “...just made up by the rabbis.”
I’m Catholic, actually, who has done some small amount of Talmud study.
My point was that Jews who are into Kabbalah seem to accept that God, while One, also can display different aspects or emanations (Sefirot)
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/sefirot/
I was making an analogy:
If it is valid in Judaism to regard God as being One, but having ten emanations, then why is it so hard to reconcile God as being One, with three aspects (the Trinity)?
John 4 in context:
19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
By YOUR religion's definition--not by Judaism's definition. G-d is NOT a "person", has no mortal form. You can't define everything by YOUR religion.
As a student of Kabbalah and Chassidut, I have seen how these theologies can be confused. That’s why you see the real counter-missionaries like Tovia Singer sticking strictly to scripture to demonstrate the fallacy of Jews being able to accept Jesus.
There is no independence in the “Sefirot” of Kabbalistic teaching.
I will tell you and if you want to study one on one fine, but the aspects of G-d’s qualities that Kabbalah refers to do not acceptable all the god-as-the-son ideas of the Trinity.
“Then show me the origins of the trinity.”
There is no origin to the Trinity. God always was.
“I can assure you it isn’t Jewish, but quite pagan.”
False. Since paganism believes in polytheism and the Trinity is One God there is nothing pagan about the Trinity.
“By YOUR religion’s definition—not by Judaism’s definition. G-d is NOT a “person”, has no mortal form.”
Angels are persons and have no mortal form. Your argument is clearly wrong.
“You can’t define everything by YOUR religion.”
Actually I can - because it is true. You just denied the personhood of angels because you can’t think clearly. I have every reason to think everything can be defined by truth - which you clearly are unfamiliar with.
the LORD appearing as a man to Abraham is right smack there in the first book of the Torah. Spelled out plain as day.
You have already thrown out the Torah when you say that God can not appear as a man in favor of an interpretation and assumption that He could not that does NOT come from the Torah but comes from Rabbis arguing with Christians many centuries later.
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