Ownership of Firearms without Serial Numbers: Case Appealed to Fourth Circuit

AmmoLand ^ | November 18, 2022 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

The ground-breaking case of USA v. Randy Price has been appealed to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. The notice of appeal was filed on October 24, 2022. The appointment of a federal public defender was made on October 26, 2022.

The Fourth Circuit appointed the Federal Defender for the Southern District of West Virginia to represent Randy Price in this case.

Presumably, this is the same attorney who represented Price in the District Court, Wesley P. Page, Federal Public Defender s/Lex  A Coleman, WV Bar No. 10484.

The case was discussed in a previous article on AmmoLand.

The potential for strengthening Second Amendment Protections, in this case, are notable and important. This case has a few implications for criminal action in the United States.

The law found unconstitutional in this case, 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(k), was not formed until 1990. It is late law, constitutionally, and has no significant historical precedence.

The suspect in this case, Randy Price, may not be the person most sympathetic. Price is a convicted felon. He is prohibited from possessing firearms, by federal law.

The District Judge, Joseph R. Goodwin, found the arguments to declare the law prohibiting possession of a firearms whose serial number had been removed, to be unconstitutional, and persuasive, given the guidance of the Bruen decision on the Second Amendment by the Supreme Court.

Judge Goodwin found the prohibition of a felon possessing firearms to be constitutional under the Bruen decision.

Under this decision, a felon is barred from legally possessing firearms under federal law.

People who may legally possess a firearm may not be prosecuted for possessing a firearm that has had the serial number altered or removed.

Federal law forbids the creation of a federal registration system.

[marktwain]

If people may not be prosecuted for possessing firearms from which the serial number has been removed, the whole "gun registration" scheme falls apart.

Gun registration was never about solving crimes. It never had any serious effect on crime. It was always about making the confiscation of guns from ordinary people easier.

[lavaroise]

Gun registration = people registration aka forced enlistment into wars or death camps.

We already see the choices the globalism gives us, between Russian gulags or forced enlistment into fighting for Ukraine for “democracy”….

[lavaroise]

Also markings on weapons has always been a prerogative of tribal and gun culture association. The state should not impose its religion and serials on our assembly objects.

Guns are not only an individual but also an ethnic right. Irony that those crying against racism and antisemitism happen to be actually antigun capos.

[marktwain]

So far, I do not see anyone being forced to fight in Ukraine, but Ukrainians.

However, force fighting for governments has gone on long before registration.

Grabbing young men from villages and forcing them to fight has a long history.

China and Russia are some of the worst offenders, but England has a long history of the Press Gang for their Navy.

[Travis McGee]

As a technical note, folks should know that merely grinding off the surface impressions is not enough. The original dies stamp the number deeply into the metal's crystalline structure, and so the number can often be recovered. If one lived in a dangerous police state, (not a free country like the USA, obviously)(sarc?), one should first ruin the numbers with a center punch, and then grind the mess off.

Anyway, center punches are great tools to have. 1. If you want to drill a very accurately placed hole in hard steel, use a punch to give your first small drill bit a home. Otherwise, the drill bit tip may skate around before randomly biting into the steel, off your desired mark.

2. Sometimes in order to disassemble some tight metal pieces, even after soaking in penetrating oil, you will need to give a part a sharp rap with a hammer. The hardened tip of the center punch will bite into the piece you are trying to dislodge, so you can give it a major impact with your hammer.

Frankly, I can't imagine any tool bench without a center punch. Super useful tool. I just mentioned a few reasons to own them. Just a couple bucks at the hardware store.

[Travis McGee]

Addendum to above. It should go without saying, but I will say it, before whacking your serial number with a hammer and center punch, that part of the disassembled pistol must be carefully backed up with a hard wood or soft metal shim or wedge, so you don’t damage the functioning of the pistol or rifle by compressing the overall width of the receiver. IOW, don’t bend your gun when you hammer the serial number.

Obviously this advice is for people living in dangerous police states, not a free country like America.

[Gay State Conservative]

When it comes to firearms the only restriction I will accept is that there'd be laws denying access to people who have *proven* themselves to be bad...unreliable...untrustworthy. That proof would be in the form of a criminal conviction for certain types of crimes.

Actually,I thought of two more restrictions. 1) Only US citizens could manufacture,distribute or possess a firearm and 2) Nobody under the age of "x" (perhaps 16) could possess a firearm.

[Gay State Conservative]

99% of the gun laws in force today...state *and* Federal...are meant to unlawfully infringe upon 2nd Amendment rights.

[Lovely-Day-For-A-Guinness]

The automatic center punches, like those Starrett manufactures, are better and quicker. The best ones have a tension setting screw.

[Joe Brower]

Good article by Mr. Dean Weingarten, as always.

For articles flagged with the FreeRepublic "banglist" keyword, please click HERE .

[Jumper]

Those little brass spring loaded center punchs are great for breaking car windows. Place the point about 1-2 inches from the corner of the window and watch the Spider effect. Of course if you are a fire fighter or emergence rescue person, you might add an ice pick for penetrating the sidewall of tires, just to make sure a vehicle doesn’t roll.

Some of my favorite tools when I was on the fire department;)

[Fido969]

The center punch can also be used to remove broken bolts. I remember working on a car with a friend and we broke the head off a large bolt. The bolt was broken flush. An engineering student happened by and said to put the point of the punch on the edge of the bolt, and imagine it was the size of a manhole cover and by tapping, turn the thing.

I was amazed when it worked.

[Magnum44]

I agree a law making unserialized guns illegal is unconstitutional. But I question why I would want to remove the serial numbers from guns I legally purchased.

The only reason I can think of is for selling or transferring to someone else without going through an FFL, which should also be legal. But the downside of damaging the gun, ruining the finish, reducing the resell value, etc, seems unnecessary.

For new guns or gun builds, unserialized from the start would be good. That’s the way 80% builds are already. I think manufacturers would still want to serialize, for purposes of recalling defects, etc, like automobiles.

[cyclotic]

The Fourth Circuit covers Maryland where the lunatic Asylum they call the Legislature last year made the possession of homemade “Ghost Guns” illegal. I prefer to refer to them as hobby guns.

[Blood of Tyrants]

If it is illegal for the federal government to have a database of firearms, then having an unserialized firearm is moot.

[telescope115]

Very, VERY good advice…
I’m no stranger to center punches, having done a little woodworking, and working in machine shops most of my life.
I need to find mine, or pick up a couple new ones…
They have tons of uses.

[curious7]

‘... proven themselves to be bad...’ - like politicians and bureaucrats, for instance. We should push to deny bureaucrats any form of protection paid for by taxpayers. They should have to live like the ‘little people’.

[Ancesthntr]

“ The automatic center punches…”
—————
Would those being assault punches, or full auto punches? :>)

[marktwain]

If it is illegal for the federal government to have a database of firearms, then having an unserialized firearm is moot.

Laws can be changed much easier than Supreme Court decisions.

A Supreme Court decision to this effect puts legal teeth into the illegitimacy of gun registration in the United States.

[zeugma]

For new guns or gun builds, unserialized from the start would be good. That’s the way 80% builds are already. I think manufacturers would still want to serialize, for purposes of recalling defects, etc, like automobiles.

I agree in part with this. However, serials are useful for historical research. Other methods an be used than numbers though. You can use year/mo of manufacture to indicate same, or some other scheme, such as letters or symbols. Most folk aren't aware that Zippo does this on their lighters. They each have a Letter indicating year of manufacture. Unfortunately, they haven't been really consistent over the years, so sometimes it's hard to figure out exactly when a given lighter was made.

For firearms, I'd like to see at least a 4-digit year and two digit month. A hundred years from now, it may matter to someone.