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Jewish actor converts to Catholicism: the Virgin Mary ‘is my most beautiful love’
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/252786/jewish-actor-converts-to-catholicism-the-virgin-mary-is-my-most-beautiful-love ^ | November 10, 2022

Posted on 11/12/2022 7:44:47 AM PST by lowbridge

The famous Jewish actor and humorist Gad Elmaleh, beloved in France, announced his conversion to the Catholic faith, a process in which he says the Virgin Mary played a crucial role.

Elmaleh, 51, was the partner of Charlotte Casiraghi, the daughter of Princess Caroline of Monaco, with whom they have a son named Rafael.

His conversion to Catholicism is depicted in his new film, “Reste un peu,” (“Stay a while”).

The Jewish actor, who according to the Spanish newspaper El Mundo will take the name of Jean-Marie when he is baptized, has studied theology in Paris, and in 2019 he participated in a musical in London about St. Bernadette Soubirous, the visionary who saw Our Lady of Lourdes.

Elmaleh told the French newspaper Le Figaro that “the Virgin Mary is my most beautiful love” and expressed his surprise that in France the “vast majority of Catholics don’t live their faith openly.”

As a child, he recounted in the interview, he entered a church and saw an image of the Mother of God.

“It wasn’t a vision, just a simple statue, but I was petrified. I began to cry and hid for fear of being discovered by my family, for fear of curses and superstition. I kept it a secret for my entire childhood,” he recalled.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Religion
KEYWORDS: elmaleh; virginiamary; virginmary
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To: daniel1212
Your word salad in your first paragraph is irrelvant; and does not by itself establish your contention.

You're acting as though 2 Corinthians 8 automatically is relevant 1 Corinthians 3 - 4; or that Luke 12 has to do with it.

For your 2nd paragraph, as an old tutor of mine used to say, "Close, but no dog biscuit."

The difficulty in discussing any such issues, is that most people who are deeply engaged in these topics have certain verbal formulations burned into their head -- both for what they believe to be true, and therefore hold fast to; and for what they consider to be the errors of others.

What can happen all too often, is that a person says "statement XYZ" then another person hears the part "X" and mentally rushes in to fill in "XAB" instead -- which isn't what the first person said at all.

The problem is that I reject the insistence on Sola Scriptura -- "If it wasn't mentioned in the Scriptures, it is not necessary for salvation" can too easily become "if it wasn't mentioned in the Scriptures, it simply is forbidden to consider that it might happen to be of God or used by God to help someone towards Salvation".

And THAT last sentence too often springs the knee-jerk counter argument that "once you go outside the Scriptures, you open yourselves up to all KINDS of errors and even demonic influence"...which then auto-catalyzes into "everything not explicitly mentioned in Scripture (especially the teachings of my specific denomination" is *perforce* demonic.

The problem is that you are insisting that anything not listed in Scripture MUST be completely false; that's a good way to eliminate a LOT of errors, but you might be throwing some Grace away too. Mary is not salvific as Jesus is, she didn't die for our sins; but by His grace, I believe He allows His Mother to be a channel of God's Grace and Power.(*)

There's a difference between "a necessary and required component of the mechanism of salvation of mankind" and "God allows His Mother to act to spread God's grace to help certain individuals and by the way, since God is so merciful, and not-hung-up-on-Protestant-doctrine, that as many people want to approach Him that way, or grow in faith that way, He will accept them instead of casting them aside due to lack of ideololgical purity"

(*) As it turns out, there are Catholic teachings which go much further than that, based on certain Scriptures which are not emphasized by Protestants. And on the other hand, the Lutherans retained the feast of the Assumption of Mary even though it is not in Scripture.

81 posted on 11/12/2022 10:54:32 PM PST by grey_whiskers ( (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.))
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To: metmom

Stop shouting in ignorance.

I surmise your pastor told you to think that, and it stuck by sheer force of repetition; but there are many accounts of Mary, whether appearing to people, or, God granting prayers after praying the Rosary, or even in exorcisms, acting to advance the Kingdom of God, which simply do not fit into any of your dismissive categories.


82 posted on 11/12/2022 10:58:49 PM PST by grey_whiskers ( (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.))
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To: kinsman redeemer
I don’t even think he noticed me. We were in the Beer/Wine aisle.

That part makes me doubt your story.

The joke I've always heard is,

Q. How can you tell a Baptist from a Catholic?

A. Catholics make eye contact with each other in the liquor store.

83 posted on 11/12/2022 11:05:38 PM PST by grey_whiskers ( (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.))
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To: Elsie

Behold the Handmaid of the Lord; may it be done to Me according to Thy Word.

But I suspect you knew that already.


84 posted on 11/13/2022 12:29:33 AM PST by Trump_Triumphant
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To: daniel1212
Thus the veracity of even apostolic oral preaching could be subject to testing by Scripture, (Acts 17:11) and not vice versa.

I wouldn't argue your point. However, it manifests a problem, as I see it. The World Christian Encyclopedia claims there are 30K+ Protestant denominations. Why? One reason is interpretation of scripture. There are many areas of disagreement between Christians, not just Protestant and Catholics. Let's take one major area. There is great divide between Protestants who believe that some or all the gifts of the Holy Spirit stopped functioning after the 1st century - others, just the opposite. Why the disagreement? The answer is interpretation of scripture.

I would posit that you and I can interpret scripture to mean whatever we want it to mean. Ergo, thousands of denominations.

You could argue that personal interpretation is better than being spoon fed by a magisterium or like bodies in Protestant churches that serve a similar purpose. I wouldn't disagree. I believe in Sola Scriptura but the problem is not validity of the scripture but that every Christian or Christian denomination becomes an interpreter. You may not see this as a problem, I do.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I see through a glass darkly now. I don't claim to have or know the correct interpretation of all scripture. My faith is the the life, death and resurrection of Christ for my salvation. Whatever I misunderstand or get wrong on this side of heaven, I trust there is grace for my darkness. Jn 3:16,17

85 posted on 11/13/2022 4:43:45 AM PST by JesusIsLord
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To: grey_whiskers
And Sola Scriptura itself is an invention of men: after around 1500 years of Church history.P>I see...


 
 

NIV Matthew 2:5
"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:

NIV Matthew 4:1-11
1. Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
2. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
3. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4. Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
5. Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
7. Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10. Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
11. Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

NIV Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Matthew 21:13
"It is written," he said to them, "`My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a `den of robbers.' "

NIV Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him.

NIV Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'

NIV Mark 7:6-7
6. He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
7. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

NIV Mark 9:11-13
11. And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
12. Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
13. But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."

NIV Mark 11:17
And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written: "`My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations' ? But you have made it `a den of robbers.' "

NIV Mark 14:27
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'

NIV Luke 4:17-19
17. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18. "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
19. to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

NIV Luke 7:27
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

NIV Luke 18:31-33
31. Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
32. He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
33. On the third day he will rise again."

NIV Luke 20:17-18
17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ' ?
18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

NIV Luke 21:22
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

NIV Luke 22:37
It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

NIV Luke 24:44-47
44. He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47. and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

NIV John 2:17
His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."
 
NIV John 6:31
Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "

NIV John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

NIV John 12:14-16
14. Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
15. "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
16. At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.

NIV John 15:25
But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: `They hated me without reason.'

NIV John 20:30-31
30. Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

NIV Acts 1:20
"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, "`May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "`May another take his place of leadership.'

NIV Acts 7:42
But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: "`Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?

NIV Acts 13:29
When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.

NIV Acts 13:32-33
32. "We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers
33. he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "`You are my Son; today I have become your Father. '

NIV Acts 15:15-18
15. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16. "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
17. that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
18. that have been known for ages.

NIV Acts 23:5
Paul replied, "Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: `Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.' "

NIV Acts 24:14
However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

NIV Romans 1:17
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

NIV Romans 2:24
As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

NIV Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."

NIV Romans 3:10-12
10. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11. there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

NIV Romans 4:17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

NIV Romans 4:23-24
23. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
24. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

NIV Romans 8:36
As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

NIV Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

NIV Romans 10:15
And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

NIV Romans 11:7-10
7. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8. as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
9. And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."

NIV Romans 11:26-27
26. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

NIV Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

NIV Romans 14:11
It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"

NIV Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

NIV Romans 15:7-12
7. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
8. For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
9. so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name."
10. Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."
11. And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples."
12. And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him."

NIV Romans 15:21
Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:19
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:31
Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9
However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --

NIV 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
20. and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."

NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

NIV 1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:7
Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:11
These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

NIV 2 Corinthians 4:13-14
13. it is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
14. because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.

NIV 2 Corinthians 8:15
as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."

NIV Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

NIV Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

NIV Galatians 4:22
For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

NIV Galatians 4:27
For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."

NIV Hebrews 10:7
Then I said, `Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"

NIV 1 Peter 1:15-16
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."



And now; for the Believers in Christ who may have wondered how much FAITH to place upon the Apostles written words...
 
NIV Luke 1:1-4
1. Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4. so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
 
NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

NIV 1 John 2:12-14
12. I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
14. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

86 posted on 11/13/2022 5:12:44 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: grey_whiskers
...and it stuck by sheer force of repetition;

Hail Mary, Mother of GOD...


87 posted on 11/13/2022 5:13:57 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Trump_Triumphant
But I suspect you knew that already.

 Luke 1 KJV

Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

.

.

.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.


What I DO know is that the angel told Mary what was going to happen to her.

She was given NO option to go along with the PLAN or not.

88 posted on 11/13/2022 5:20:45 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JesusIsLord
The answer is interpretation of scripture.

You are right.

When we fail to take Scripture as saying exactly what it means, then we 'interpret' it to mean what we want.

'Tis a failing of ALL various incarnations of 'christianity'.

89 posted on 11/13/2022 5:23:31 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: grey_whiskers
And Sola Scriptura itself is an invention of men: after around 1500 years of Church history. Many Saints (both Orthodox and Catholic) and lay people had experiences and revelations which are not mentioned in Scripture, in addition to the formal teachings of the Church; as indeed continues today.

Word of mouth accounts are not reliable as written down Scripture.

Jesus constantly appealed to the very Scripture to validate Himself and His claims Catholicism deems inadequate for us today.

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

Anything else is up for grabs and does not rise to that level of assurance.

90 posted on 11/13/2022 6:09:58 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith….)
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To: metmom
Anything beyond that as recorded in Scripture, is pure speculation, conjecture, and outright wishful thinking.

Scripture records that Mary was saluted by an angel; it is the only instance recorded in Scripture where an angel demonstrated deference to a person.

Ignore that detail at your own peril.

91 posted on 11/13/2022 6:14:28 AM PST by Captain Walker (Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.-Pascal)
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To: grey_whiskers
Stop shouting in ignorance.

Projecting much? Who’s shouting and why are you assuming that?

I surmise your pastor told you to think that, and it stuck by sheer force of repetition; but there are many accounts of Mary, whether appearing to people, or, God granting prayers after praying the Rosary, or even in exorcisms, acting to advance the Kingdom of God, which simply do not fit into any of your dismissive categories.

You surmise completely, totally, 100% wrong. Christians do not blindly follow their church leaders and believe everything they are ordered to by their church hierarchy.

It’s not rocket science to be able to read Scripture and see the very few things that are written about Mary and see how little basis so much Catholic teaching about Mary has.

Visions and apparitions are not proof of the genuineness of anything. Satan can appear as an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

Apparitions cannot be trusted to be from God and placing trust or faith in them is spiritually very dangerous.

92 posted on 11/13/2022 6:18:06 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith….)
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To: Elsie
She was given NO option to go along with the PLAN or not.

Then what could possibly be the point of the visit? Or of the need for a reply?

(The angel Gabriel didn't leave until Mary gave her assent.)

93 posted on 11/13/2022 6:18:20 AM PST by Captain Walker (Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.-Pascal)
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To: JesusIsLord; daniel1212
I wouldn't argue your point. However, it manifests a problem, as I see it. The World Christian Encyclopedia claims there are 30K+ Protestant denominations. Why? One reason is interpretation of scripture. There are many areas of disagreement between Christians, not just Protestant and Catholics. Let's take one major area. There is great divide between Protestants who believe that some or all the gifts of the Holy Spirit stopped functioning after the 1st century - others, just the opposite. Why the disagreement? The answer is interpretation of scripture.

And I’ll raise you the differences between the Roman Rite and the Orthodox. They are not insignificant doctrinally and they have been in schism for over 1,000 years with each claiming to be the original version of Catholicism with the other in schism.

Nor is the fact that there are many Protestant denominations proof of theological differences. There is far less difference between many Protestant denominations that Catholics suppose. Some of the denominational “differences” are simply the focus of their mission.

Much of the reason for many denominations is simply geography.

Nor does being under the headship of one leader any guarantee of unity of theology and doctrine as witnessed by Catholicism. I’ve met more Catholics than I can count who are OK with abortion and homosexual “marriage” and who vote democrat in EVERY election.

The long and short of it is that Catholics are in no position to point any fingers about doctrinal differences between denominations in light of the doctrinal differences within theirs.

So who is right? Rome, the Vatican, or the Orthodox?

How’s Francis working out for you?

94 posted on 11/13/2022 6:27:13 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith….)
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To: Elsie

The rosary.

50 or so Hail Mary’s about about 10 or so Our Father’s.

Repetition aside, that’s very lopsided focus and praying.


95 posted on 11/13/2022 6:28:44 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith….)
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To: Captain Walker

The Greek, if that makes any difference to a Catholic.

The angel greeted her.

https://biblehub.com/greek/5463.htm

chairo‘

Definition: to rejoice, be glad
Usage: I rejoice, am glad; also a salutation: Hail.

Usually people greet each other when they meet. Other people have seen angels and been greeted by them as well.

It proves nothing about Mary and gives no support to the Catholic mythology surrounding her.


96 posted on 11/13/2022 6:33:51 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith….)
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To: metmom
Usually people greet each other when they meet. Other people have seen angels and been greeted by them as well.

"Hail" isn't merely a greeting; it's a salute (as in, "Hail, Caesar"). (Or are you suggesting that someone was merely saying "hello" to Caesar?)

Show me any other biblical reference where any of the angels used the word "hail" to "greet" someone.

97 posted on 11/13/2022 7:16:19 AM PST by Captain Walker (Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.-Pascal)
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To: JesusIsLord
The World Christian Encyclopedia claims there are 30K+ Protestant denominations. Why? One reason is interpretation of scripture. There are many areas of disagreement between Christians, not just Protestant and Catholics. Let's take one major area. There is great divide between Protestants who believe that some or all the gifts of the Holy Spirit stopped functioning after the 1st century - others, just the opposite. Why the disagreement? The answer is interpretation of scripture. The World Christian Encyclopedia claims there are 30K+ Protestant denominations. Why? One reason is interpretation of scripture. There are many areas of disagreement between Christians, not just Protestant and Catholics. Let's take one major area. There is great divide between Protestants who believe that some or all the gifts of the Holy Spirit stopped functioning after the 1st century - others, just the opposite. Why the disagreement? The answer is interpretation of scripture.
Actually, besides the 30K+ Protestant denomination figure being so misleading that even RC apologists as Dave Armstrong renounced using it, yet while there are divisions based upon interpretation of scripture, the reality is that those who most strongly esteem Scripture as the accurate and wholly God-inspired supreme authority have long testified to being far more unified in basic beliefs than those who Rome manifestly considers members in life and in death. Meanwhile, the really deleterious division under the vast umbrella called Protestantism is because perhaps only about half of denominations actually believe in the Bible.

Then you have your alternative, in which tradition and scripture only authoritatively mean what the magisterium, as infallible, says, which itself results in division. Let's take one area. There is great divide between EOs in leadership who believe that some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit stopped functioning after the 1st century and the RCS who don't. Why the disagreement? Because leadership reads tradition and scripture differently.

There is nothing Orthodox about the charismatic movement. It is incompatible with Orthodoxy, in that it justifies itself only by perverting the message of the Fathers, suggesting that the Church of Christ needs renewal, and indulging in the theological imagery of, Pentecostal cultism. With such things, one cannot be too bold in his language of condemnation and reprobation. - http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/charmov.aspx

Some within even do so far as to say:

Orthodoxy is not simply an alternative ecclesiastical structure to the Roman Catholic Church. The Orthodox Church presents a fundamentally different approach to theology, because She possesses a fundamentally different experience of Christ and life in Him. To put it bluntly, she knows a different Christ from that of the Roman Catholic Church.” "The Orthodox Church opposes the Roman doctrines of universal papal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, purgatory, and the Immaculate Conception precisely because they are untraditional." — Clark Carlton, THE WAY: What Every Protestant Should Know About the Orthodox Church, 1997.

With some mutual feelings from the other side:

Few Catholics realize that Eastern Orthodoxy, especially as represented by Palamite theology, represents a systematic and comprehensive attack upon Catholic doctrine. Catholic and Orthodox theology are not only in opposition to one another in their understanding of God (theology), but also in the various disciplines of philosophy – in Cosmology, Psychology, Epistemology, Metaphysics, Theodicy, and Ethics. They posit radically different views of God, of man, and of the relationship between God and His creation... Over the past 2,000 years there have been many heresies, schisms, and systems of thought comprehensively opposed to Catholicism. But none has carried the potential threat for corruption of all of Catholic dogma which Eastern Orthodoxy represents. — http://www.waragainstbeing.com/partiii

More here.

In addition, as one poster observed, rather than creating unity, the Roman magisterium fostered division in the ranks:

"The last time the church imposed its judgment in an authoritative manner on "areas of legitimate disagreement," the conservative Catholics became the Sedevacantists and the Society of St. Pius X, the moderate Catholics became the conservatives, the liberal Catholics became the moderates, and the folks who were excommunicated, silenced, refused Catholic burial, etc. became the liberals. The event that brought this shift was Vatican II; conservatives then couldn't handle having to actually obey the church on matters they were uncomfortable with, so they left. ” - Nathan, https://christopherblosser.wordpress.com/2005/05/16/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of-catholic-teaching (original http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog/2005/05/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of.html)

Thus we have, Is Catholicism about to break into three?

Archbishop Viganò: We Are Witnessing Creation of a ‘New Church

The SSPX's Relationship with Francis: Is it Traditional? post #6

Is the Catholic Church in De Facto Schism?

The Impossibility of Judging or Deposing a True Pope...If Francis is a true Pope

And before.

Cardinal Ratzinger observed,

"For nearly half a century, the Church was split into two or three obediences that excommunicated one another, so that every Catholic lived under excommunication by one pope or another, and, in the last analysis, no one could say with certainty which of the contenders had right on his side. The Church no longer offered certainty of salvation; she had become questionable in her whole objective form--the true Church, the true pledge of salvation, had to be sought outside the institution.“

"It is against this background of a profoundly shaken ecclesial consciousness that we are to understand that Luther, in the conflict between his search for salvation and the tradition of the Church, ultimately came to experience the Church, not as the guarantor, but as the adversary of salvation. (Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, head of the Sacred Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith for the Church of Rome, “Principles of Catholic Theology,” trans. by Sister Mary Frances McCarthy, S.N.D. (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1989) p.196). http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/06/13/whos-in-charge-here-the-illusions-of-church-infallibility/)

I believe in Sola Scriptura
Then these 14 questions should help more

but the problem is not validity of the scripture but that every Christian or Christian denomination becomes an interpreter. You may not see this as a problem, I do.
Westminster affirms that , " It belongs to synods and councils, ministerially to determine controversies of faith, and cases of conscience; to set down rules and directions for the better ordering of the public worship of God," (https://westminsterstandards.org/westminster-confession-of-faith) but with veracity based upon manifest conformity with Scripture, versus the novel and unScriptural premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility as per Rome (and basically in certain cults).

Moreover, as I have said before, the goal should be that of a central magisterium of mature, wise spiritual male pastors to whom appeal is made in matters unresolved on lower levels, which is Scriptural, (Dt. 7:8-13; Acts 15) but which ideal Rome poisoned. If she cannot even be reconciled with her Catholic cousins, who charge Rome as the one who is guilty of moral fratricide, of a sin against the unity of the Church (http://www.stpaulsirvine.org/html/TheGreatSchism.htm) and those she manifestly counts as members in life and in death (from Ted Kennedy Catholics to Traditionalists - who themselves fight with each other) are more disunified as a whole in basic beliefs, while affirming distinctive Catholic teachings that are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed, then it is not even a candidate for the position it lusts for and presumes to have.

While comprehensive doctrinal unity was ever a goal not realized, the prima NT church was basically of "one heart and one soul" (Acts 4:32) under manifest apostles, (2Co. 6:4-10) that we sadly do not see today, but who established their Truth claims upon Scriptural substantiation in word and in power, in dissent from the historical magisterium, and contrary to Rome.

98 posted on 11/13/2022 8:04:47 AM PST by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him who saves, be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: Captain Walker; metmom
We know from Luke Chapter 1 that Mary was puzzled at Gabriel's salutation.

But if his salutation was simply a "hello", as you say, why would she be puzzled?

She was puzzled because she recognized the greeting as it was intended; he was showing deference to her with his words.

99 posted on 11/13/2022 8:40:39 AM PST by Captain Walker (Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.-Pascal)
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To: Elsie
Does she pray, “Hail Mary - Mother of GOD...” ?

No, because it would be inappropriate; she did, however, pray the Glory Be at the end of each decade of the Rosary. We know this from Bernadette herself.

(In fact, it would be indicative of fraud if Bernadette reported that Mary said either the Hail Mary or the Our Father, as both prayers are only appropriate for man in his fallen state.)

100 posted on 11/13/2022 8:47:02 AM PST by Captain Walker (Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.-Pascal)
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