Posted on 11/12/2022 7:44:47 AM PST by lowbridge
The famous Jewish actor and humorist Gad Elmaleh, beloved in France, announced his conversion to the Catholic faith, a process in which he says the Virgin Mary played a crucial role.
Elmaleh, 51, was the partner of Charlotte Casiraghi, the daughter of Princess Caroline of Monaco, with whom they have a son named Rafael.
His conversion to Catholicism is depicted in his new film, “Reste un peu,” (“Stay a while”).
The Jewish actor, who according to the Spanish newspaper El Mundo will take the name of Jean-Marie when he is baptized, has studied theology in Paris, and in 2019 he participated in a musical in London about St. Bernadette Soubirous, the visionary who saw Our Lady of Lourdes.
Elmaleh told the French newspaper Le Figaro that “the Virgin Mary is my most beautiful love” and expressed his surprise that in France the “vast majority of Catholics don’t live their faith openly.”
As a child, he recounted in the interview, he entered a church and saw an image of the Mother of God.
“It wasn’t a vision, just a simple statue, but I was petrified. I began to cry and hid for fear of being discovered by my family, for fear of curses and superstition. I kept it a secret for my entire childhood,” he recalled.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...
None of which by any means supports the unscriptural doctrine about Mary, or the doctrine and claims made about her that cannot be supported by Scripture.
L.C., kindly stop posting your anti-Catholic snarks to me, now and forever. I am in a Reform confession; but still am glad that the man in the OP came to Christ, and presumably is reading the gospels.
If you had looked closely at the photo, you would see that SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE SCULPTOR had merely hung the beads on the Mary figure, and it's not established why they did that—they could have found the rosary while passing by on the sidewalk outside the church and kindly used the statuette as a Lost & Found.
And furthermore, Jim Robinson himself has warned us not to bash Catholicism on the Forum.
If you were truly secure in your salvation, you would feel no need to sneer at denominations other than your own. It's tiresome.
The overwhelming majority of your examples, are quotes of the Old Testament as prophecy.
The quotes at the bottom are mostly people in letters referring to the letters, or other letters.
Neither one undermines the role of the Church in teaching / interpreting Scripture or extracanonical / post canon teaching or revelations (words are tricky here).
And you misapply/overapply quotes in red.
“Everything that was written in the past was meant to teach us” is not the same as “Only things that are written are legitimate.”
And the 1 Corinthians4 quote, is not a general precept, but was specifically written to Corinth about playing “favorite disciple” games: as the very next sentence after the one in red indicates.
Yes, Mary is the Mother of God: for in the Incarnation, Jesus is all God and all Man.
And He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary.
The Doctrine came first, the request for Mary’s prayers which begins with that phrase, second.
Refuting your slander that it stuck by sheer force of repetition.
Is that a rhetorical question or one directed to me? If the latter, the answer is not at all. He's not my Pope.
Let's not pretend that differences and problems related to doctrine and interpretation and application of scripture is a "mainly Catholic" problem. You marginalize the differences between the 35K+ Protestant denominations. I would differ. The fact that there are 35K+ Protestant denominations speaks for itself.
The sad fact is that there is division across Christendom. I contend that the source of these divisions is not the scripture but how men and denominations interpret and apply scripture. I wish I knew how all Christians can be one as Christ and His Father are one, but I'd be a liar to make such a claim. Hopefully, Jesus' prayer will be answered this side of heaven.
Despite the division between Believers, I choose that division will not divorce me from fellowship with other Believers. By Believers, I mean those who Believe that Jesus is the Christ and that through His life, death (sacrifice) and resurrection, we are saved from hell and promised eternal life in heaven.
Your word salad in your first paragraph is irrelvant; and does not by itself establish your contention. You're acting as though 2 Corinthians 8 automatically is relevant 1 Corinthians 3 - 4; or that Luke 12 has to do with it.
You have a problem if you cannot comprehend that the principle transcends the immediate application. In any realm, there must be a standard for determining claims, and thus you should agree that mortals should not be thought of above which can be surely attested to, while especially in spiritual matters then whatever is wholly inspired of God is the sure and supreme standard, which for us, as with the NT church, that is Scripture to which they so much appealed, and were tested by.
But for you, that wholly inspired of God standard includes Catholic tradition, but which effectively means that your magisterium is the sure supreme standard, since scripture and tradition only authoritatively means what it defines it to be, and mean.
Under which premise she declared Mary's bodily Assumption into heaven to be required belief, even though even Ratzinger attested that all theological faculties in the world were consulted for their opinion and their answer was emphatically negative (critically lacking evidence from the era in which is should be manifest), and that the doctrine of Mary’s bodily Assumption into heaven was unknown before the 5th century. However, by claiming to "remember" what history effectively neglected to record, Rome can declare what seems reasonable to her.
Thus it is not surprising that she does not censure hyper-exaltation such as lauds an almost almighty demigoddess to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to, • whose [Mary] merits we are saved by, • who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin," • and was bodily assumed into Heaven, which is a fact (unsubstantiated in Scripture or even early Tradition) because the Roman church says it is, and "was elevated to a certain affinity with the Heavenly Father," • and whose power now "is all but unlimited," • for indeed she "seems to have the same power as God," • "surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven," • so that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse." • and that “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus," • for indeed saints have "but one advocate," and that is Mary, who "alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation," • Moreover, "there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose," • and who has "authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven," • including "assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels," • whom the good angels "unceasingly call out to," greeting her "countless times each day with 'Hail, Mary,' while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests," • and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess," • and who is (obviously) the glory of Catholic people, whose "honor and dignity surpass the whole of creation.
Sources and more.
The problem is that I reject the insistence on Sola Scriptura -- "If it wasn't mentioned in the Scriptures, it is not necessary for salvation" can too easily become "if it wasn't mentioned in the Scriptures, it simply is forbidden to consider that it might happen to be of God or used by God to help someone towards Salvation". And THAT last sentence too often springs the knee-jerk counter argument that "once you go outside the Scriptures, you open yourselves up to all KINDS of errors and even demonic influence"...which then auto-catalyzes into "everything not explicitly mentioned in Scripture (especially the teachings of my specific denomination" is *perforce* demonic. Not so if there is no conflict with Scripture, in principle or precept, and thus we can speculate whether animals will be heaven (at least some) but not make a doctrine of it, or otherwise require belief in it. Which includes requiring celebrating Christmass every December, or even Mother's day, though the principle behind such celebration itself is valid. A church can require its office holders to be part of missions month, but not make this a doctrine, nor service times, though making is reasonable and Scriptural in principle. And "there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature..." (http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ch_i.html)
Then there are issues such as the morality of cannibalism in dire situations, under the principle of saving lives. Under SS, not all is explicit, nor formally provided for.
The problem is that you are insisting that anything not listed in Scripture MUST be completely false; that's a good way to eliminate a LOT of errors, but you might be throwing some Grace away too. Mary is not salvific as Jesus is, she didn't die for our sins; but by His grace, I believe He allows His Mother to be a channel of God's Grace and Power.(*)As explained above, I am not insisting that anything not listed in Scripture MUST be completely false, but that making a doctrine - a required belief - for something that is not taught in Scripture, lacking Scriptural substantiation, is wrong, as is teaching what is contrary to what it teaches. Thus I do not assert that the believers in Heaven can not know what is going on in earth, but that there is simply not one command or one example of any believer praying to created beings in Heaven (PTCBIH) among the over 200 prayers by believers in Scripture, or instructions on who to address, despite prayers being a basic practice and with heavenly beings always being there to pray to, and occasions which would warrant it.
And which is despite the NT teaching much on intercession, in which the Son of God and High priest, is the "one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” ( 1 Timothy 2:5) who "is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them," (Hebrews 7:25) and as uniquely qualified to do so, "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:15-16)
And concerning instruction, it was Christ who taught believers to address "Our Father who art in Heaven," and God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your [believers] hearts, crying, Abba, Father." (Galatians 4:6) Not "mama, Mother!" Thus believers prayer for others, thus "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (Ephesians 3:14) not mother. That believers also call upon Christ is another evidence of His Divinity, as only God is shown or said to be able to hear all prayer, who "only knowest the hearts of all the children of men," (1 Kings 8:39; 2 Chronicles 6:30; Acts 1:24) which is a Divine privilege and attribute nowhere shown to be given to humans.
And before you try it, note that elders and angels offering prayers (Rv. 5:8; 8:4,5) in memorial - like as in Lv. 2:2,15,16; 24:7; Num. 5:15; 16:9, "an offering of memorial" cf. Num. 16:9, - is not that of them being addressed in prayer, nor does it indicate that they had heard them previously, nor is it described as being a regular postal service, but it is one of the things which is a preclude to the final judgments upon the earth, testifying to the persecutions of the saints by the devil and world that it fit to be punished.
For when "He maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble. (Psalms 9:12; cf. Genesis 4:10) and before judgment God brings forth testimony of the warrant for it, which includes the cry of those martyred souls under the altar in Rv. 6:9, and with odors representing prayer, akin to Leviticus 6:15, "burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour, even the memorial of it, unto the Lord." (Leviticus 6:15)
Moreover, IIRC any communication btwn created beings from the heavenly and earthly realm required both to someone be both in the same realm, versus believers praying "hear Thou from Heaven" (2 Chronicles 6:21,23,25,27,30,33,35,39).
In contrast, the ONLY example of souls seeking intercession from someone else as to God in Heaven was that of pagans. Like as,
But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes. (Jeremiah 44:17)
Indeed! I would add... "apostles who established their Truth claims upon Scriptural substantiation and their personal relationship with Jesus on earth. He is the living Word."
>So many assumptions in one sentence.
Not at all; but neither did I dump a whole concordance and the Large and Small Lutheran Catechisms and the CCC into one post.
” I believe that there is upon earth a little holy group and congregation of pure saints, under one head, even Christ, called together by the Holy Ghost in one faith, one mind, and understanding, with manifold gifts, yet agreeing in love, without sects or schisms. “ — Luther’s Large Catechism
“946 After confessing “the holy catholic Church,” the Apostles’ Creed adds “the communion of saints.” In a certain sense this article is a further explanation of the preceding: “What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?”479 The communion of saints is the Church.
947 “Since all the faithful form one body, the good of each is communicated to the others. . . . We must therefore believe that there exists a communion of goods in the Church. But the most important member is Christ, since he is the head. . . . Therefore, the riches of Christ are communicated to all the members, through the sacraments.”480 “As this Church is governed by one and the same Spirit, all the goods she has received necessarily become a common fund.”481
948 The term “communion of saints” therefore has two closely linked meanings: communion in holy things (sancta)” and “among holy persons (sancti).””
— Catholic of the Catholic Church
Despite trying terribly hard to be distinct from one other, Christians, if they looked clearly, would find they agree and have one Lord, Jesus Christ.
You’re not Catholic?
Imply what it means at yours.
She was TOLD what was going to happen.
Whether she 'assented' or not made no difference to history.
And what would this prove'?
Where shall I start?
Why?
HAve you no rational explanations for them?
Pointing out FACTS about Catholicism is not bashing.
People have been WARNED by RelMods about having thin skins.
You assume WAY too much for your paygrade.
So true, but just what EXTRA stuff that Rome failed to put into the Book is needed to get a person to heaven?
Refuting your slander that it stuck by sheer force of repetition.
Produce the Doctrine.
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