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Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire
YouTube ^ | October 13, 2019 | Voices of the Past

Posted on 07/23/2022 6:37:06 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

"The ruler of Da Qin is not permanent. When disasters result from unusual phenomena, they unceremoniously replace him, installing a virtuous man as king, and release the old king, who does not dare show resentment..."

Here we have the words of the early third century Chinese historian Yu Huan, who lived during the Three Kingdoms period of Chinese history. Though he never left China, he collected large amounts of information on the countries to the West, chief among them the Roman Empire.

Enormous thanks to John E. Hill for kindly allowing us to use his translation, and for tips on the possible locations mentioned and correct pronunciation. There is still some debate on some of the places mentioned in the text, so please enjoy debating further about it!
Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire // 3rd century AD "Weilüe" // Primary Source
October 13, 2019 | Voices of the Past
Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire // 3rd century AD

(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: ancientnavigation; china; daqin; europe; godsgravesglyphs; handynasty; history; romanempire; romantrade; rome; silkroad; threekingdomsperiod; voicesofthepast; yuhuan
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Voices of the Past released an excellent narrated video called: Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire // 3rd century AD "Weilüe" // Primary Source. In it Yu Huan of Wei gives us a window into what ancient China knew about Da Qin or ancient Rome. We provide context for the text and then go line by line to analyze what the historian got right or wrong. This includes his description of the silk road travel route by land and sea as well as his description of Roman customs, government, dependencies, and trade goods.
How accurate is this? - Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire
(Voices of the Past)

November 4, 2019 | Invicta
How accurate is this? - Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire (Voices of the Past) | November 4, 2019 | Invicta

1 posted on 07/23/2022 6:37:06 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: SunkenCiv

Interesting!


2 posted on 07/23/2022 6:43:11 AM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: SunkenCiv

BFL. Thanks SC.


3 posted on 07/23/2022 6:45:01 AM PDT by fidelis (👈 Under no obligation to respond to rude, ignorant, abusive, bellicose, and obnoxious posts.)
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In recognition of the enthusiasm surrounding last week's video on China's perspective, here we have a video exploring the reverse.

There are however very few Roman accounts of China that have survived to us - and those that we do have are very limited. Here we have two short extracts from Pliny's magnum opus "Naturalis Historia", in which he describes what he knows of the people of Serica and its surroundings far to the east, and how they in turn affected the Rome he knew at the time. In the second extract he describes a mysterious people (who he again dubs "Seres") whom the people of "Taprobane" (modern day Sri Lanka) apparently crossed a mountain range to trade with.

As with our previous video on China, a lot of the locations (and indeed the peoples) mentioned are still debated by scholars.
Roman Scholar Describes Ancient China // 1st century AD // Pliny the Elder on the "Seres"
October 23, 2019 | Voices of the Past
Roman Scholar Describes Ancient China // 1st century AD // Pliny the Elder on the
This is the third in our series on the relationship between China and the Roman Empire - in this case the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire).

Here we have an extract from the Old Book of Tang, the first history compiled of the Tang Dynasty in 945 AD. It is a compilation of earlier annals, dating from the 7th century up until the 10th, which shine light on the Chinese opinion of the Byzantine empire and the various embassies between the two states.
Chinese Historian Describes the Byzantine Empire // 7-10th century "Book of Tang" // Primary Source
November 2, 2019 | Voices of the Past
Chinese Historian Describes the Byzantine Empire // 7-10th century

4 posted on 07/23/2022 6:54:48 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: fidelis; Wilhelm Tell
My pleasure.

5 posted on 07/23/2022 6:55:18 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

6 posted on 07/23/2022 6:55:36 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Sounds interesting. These two empires knew of each other and even traded, but the distances were so vast to travel back then, they might as well have been on different planets.


7 posted on 07/23/2022 7:07:20 AM PDT by Flick Lives
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To: Flick Lives

Like the old children’s game where an adult would whisper a short sentence or phrase into the ear of a child who would in turn whisper it into the ear of another child. Ten or so children later the result rarely made sense much less had anything to do with the original sentence or phrase.


8 posted on 07/23/2022 7:21:02 AM PDT by oldvirginian (The CCP is the world's largest criminal organization. )
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To: SunkenCiv
Apparently this guy wrote everything down.
9 posted on 07/23/2022 7:25:24 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: oldvirginian; SunkenCiv

It’s not just children who can mess up a sentence in that way. Put 10 adults in a circle under the same circumstances, and we have today’s MSM.

‘Face

;o]


10 posted on 07/23/2022 8:21:52 AM PDT by Monkey Face (Growth is painful. Change is painful. Nothing is as painful as staying stuck where you don't belong.)
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To: Flick Lives

[snip] ...embassy claiming to have been sent by the Emperor An-tun [Sinicized name of Marcus. Aurelius Antoninus (r. 161-180)] was received at the Chinese court [/snip]

Erythrean Sea Trade: The Origin of Rome’s Contact with China
Joshua Hall
Western Oregon University
https://digitalcommons.wou.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1107&context=his

(this Roman-era visitor was probably a private trade delegation, in a foreign court claiming the imperial imprimatur lent some safety)


11 posted on 07/23/2022 8:27:08 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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Here's the YouTube-generated transcript, btw, it's hideously poor.
Transcript
0:08the kingdom of Dutch in also called Li
0:11Jian was West ah fangshi and TR XI and
0:15west of a big sea after the frontier of
0:20our Shi you take a boat from the city of
0:23Anjou and cut directly across to hi she
0:26with favourable winds it takes two
0:29months if the winds are slow perhaps a
0:32year if there is no wind perhaps three
0:35years the country that you reach years
0:39west of the sea which is why it is
0:42called hi she there is a river flowing
0:46out of the west of this country and then
0:49there is another big sea the city of Ho
0:52Chi San is in high XI from below this
0:57country you go north to reach the city
0:59of Wudang you then head south west and
1:02cross a river by boat which takes a day
1:06he had Southwest again and again cross a
1:09river by boat which takes another day
1:12there are in all three major cities that
1:15you come to now if you leave the city of
1:20Van Gogh by the overland route you go
1:23north to high bay then West to high she
1:26then turns south to go through the city
1:29of Wu Chi san after crossing a river
1:32which takes a day by boat you circle
1:34around the coast from there six days is
1:38generally enough to cross another big
1:40sea to reach that country
1:46[Music]
1:55this country da chin has more than 400
1:59smaller cities and towns it extends
2:02several thousand Li in all directions
2:04the king's seat of government is close
2:08to the mouth of a river the outer walls
2:12of the city are made of stone this
2:14region has pine trees Cypress Sephora
2:18catalpa bamboo reeds poplars willows
2:21parasol trees and all sorts of plants
2:24the people cultivate the five grains and
2:28they raise horses mules donkeys camels
2:31and silkworms they have a tradition of
2:36amazing conjuring they can produce fire
2:40from their mouths bind and then free
2:43themselves and juggle twelve balls with
2:46extraordinary skill
2:53the ruler of this country is not
2:56permanent when disasters result from
2:59unusual phenomena they unceremoniously
3:02replace him
3:03installing a virtuous man as king and
3:06release the old king who does not dare
3:09show resentment the common people are
3:12tall and virtuous like the Chinese but
3:16where who clothes they say they
3:19originally came from China but left it
3:23they have always wanted to communicate
3:25with China but and she jealous of their
3:29profits would not allow them to pass
3:30through to China the layman can read or
3:36write
3:37who script they have multi-storied
3:40public buildings and private they fly
3:43flags beat drums travel in small
3:47carriages with white roofs and have a
3:49postal service with relay sheds and
3:53postal stations like in the Middle
3:56Kingdom from Anxi you go around high bay
3:59to reach this country the people are
4:02connected to each other every 10 Li
4:06there is a relay shed and every 30 Li
4:09there is a postal station there are no
4:13bandits or thieves but there are fierce
4:16tigers and lions that kill those
4:18traveling on the route if you are not in
4:21a group you cannot get through this
4:24country has installed dozens of minor
4:27kings the Kings administrative capital
4:29is more than 100 Li around they return
4:33the official Department of Archives the
4:36king has five palaces at 10 Li intervals
4:40he goes out at daybreak to one of the
4:42palaces and deals with matters until
4:44sunset and then spends the night there
4:46the next day he goes to another Palace
4:49and in five days makes a complete tour
4:53they have appointed 36 leaders or
4:57who discuss events frequently if one
5:01leader does not show up there is no
5:03discussion when the King goes out for a
5:09walk he always orders a man to follow
5:11him holding a leather bag anyone who has
5:14something to say
5:15throws his or her petition into the bag
5:18when he returns to the palace he
5:21examines them and determines which are
5:23reasonable they use shoe Jing to make
5:28the pillars and table utensils in the
5:31palaces they manufacture bows and arrows
5:35they divide the various branch
5:37principalities of their territory into
5:40small countries such as that of the king
5:42of jisan the king of Lu fen the king of
5:45Qi Ilan the king of Shan do the king of
5:48Sifu and that of the king of U Luo there
5:52are so many other small kingdoms it is
5:54impossible to give details on each one
5:59[Music]
6:01this country produces fine linen they
6:05make gold and silver coins one gold coin
6:08is equal to ten silver coins they have a
6:12fine tapestry woven cloth that is said
6:14to be made from the down of a water
6:16sheep it is called hai she cloth this
6:20country produces the six domestic
6:21animals which are said to all come from
6:24the water it is also said that they not
6:28only use sheep's wool but also bark from
6:31trees or make silk from wild cocoons
6:34they weave woolen carpets finer woollen
6:38rugs felt rugs or curtains all of them
6:41of good quality and with brighter colors
6:43than those made in their countries of
6:45high dong furthermore they regularly
6:48make a profit by obtaining Chinese silk
6:51unraveling it and making who silk damask
6:55s-- that is why this country trades with
6:58Anxi across the middle of the sea the
7:01sea water is bitter and unable to be
7:04drunk which is why it is rare for those
7:06who try to make contact to reach China
7:09the mountains of this country produced
7:13nine colored inferior jade stones they
7:16change color on different occasions from
7:18blue through red yellow white black
7:21green purple rose and dark blue nowadays
7:25nine colored stones of the same type are
7:28found in the evil Shan Duchin has plenty
7:39of gold silver copper iron lead and tin
7:43sacred turtles white horses with
7:45redmayne's white or square lipped
7:48rhinoceroses tortoise shells
7:50black bears dragon's blood and mongooses
7:54large calories giant clams carnelian
7:57southern gold Kingfisher plumes elephant
8:01tusks coloured veined Jade bright moon
8:04pearls night shining pearls genuine
8:08white pearls yellow amber and red coral
8:11they have ten types of glaze or glass
8:14red white black green yellow blue dark
8:16blue light blue rose and purple fine
8:20sonorous trade their gemstone Jade rock
8:23crystal and semi-precious red gems they
8:26have rail gar orpiment blue green
8:28semi-precious stone and multicolored
8:31onyx or jade they have ten types of wool
8:34carpets yellow white black green purple
8:37Rose deep red dark blue golden light
8:39blue and back to yellow finely woven
8:42multicolored wool pile carpets
8:44multicolored and nine colored inferior
8:47quality wool carpets they have gold
8:50threaded embroidery polychrome silk
8:52twill woven gold cloth red or purple
8:55handkerchiefs far lue cloth red or
8:58purple cool cloth handkerchiefs asbestos
9:01cloth fine silk gauze cloth base cloth
9:04do die cloth when Sewell cloth
9:06multicolored towel cloth hangings with
9:10scarlet backgrounds woven with gold and
9:14little round multicolored mosquito nets
9:17all together they have allowed 12 types
9:20of aromatic plants as well as the
9:25overland route from dart Shin through
9:27high bay one can also follow the sea
9:29south along the seven commanderies of
9:31Joshy in contact with foreign people
9:35nearby is a river route which leads to
9:39Jung Chang in Yi province
9:40that's why rare items come from Jung
9:44Chang in early times only the maritime
9:47routes to darchen were discussed because
9:50they did not know that there were
9:51overland routes west of darchen is a sea
10:00west of the sea are rivers west of the
10:04rivers are big mountains running south
10:07to north west of this is the Chi schooi
10:10west of the chi schooi are the Bayou
10:13Shan in the Bayou Sean lives she won mu
10:17west of she won mu are the long Lucia to
10:20the west of the Lea Shah is the kingdom
10:23of - eeeh the kingdom of Jeon Shah the
10:26kingdom of Shu Yao and the Kingdom of
10:29the UAG west of these four kingdoms is
10:32the hey chewy
10:33which is as far west as I have heard of
10:38you one the author observes it is
10:42commonly believed that a fish living in
10:45a little stream does not know the size
10:47of the Yangtze River and the sea the
10:50mayfly for that matter does not know of
10:53the changing of the four seasons
10:55why is this so because one lives in a
11:00small place and the others life is short
11:03I am at the moment intensively examining
11:08dart shin and all the other foreign
11:10kingdoms still it seems to me that I am
11:14neglecting to fully instruct the
11:17uninformed moreover as to the
11:19speculations of Xu yang or the
11:21hypothesis of the diet a chuan alas I am
11:25limited to traveling
11:27by foot and living in the puddle left in
11:30the hoofprint of an ox besides I don't
11:33have the longevity of pang shoe it has
11:37not been my fate to see things firsthand
11:42traveling with the rapid wins or
11:45enlisting Swift horses to view distant
11:47vistas alas I have to strain to see the
11:52three heavenly bodies but oh how my
11:56thoughts fly to the eight foreign
11:59regions
12:06[Music]
12:15you

12 posted on 07/23/2022 8:31:25 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: Monkey Face

/bingo


13 posted on 07/23/2022 8:33:15 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Home run on this history channel link. Kudos to you.

I’ve bookmarked the channel for further exploration.


14 posted on 07/23/2022 8:53:07 AM PDT by Hootowl99
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To: Hootowl99; SunkenCiv

Why does the Chinese source describe the Da-Qins (ancient Romans) as having silkworms? Weren’t these a much later import to Rome during the early medieval era?


15 posted on 07/23/2022 9:17:18 AM PDT by nwrep
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To: SunkenCiv

Bkmk


16 posted on 07/23/2022 9:23:26 AM PDT by kelly4c
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To: Hootowl99

I don’t know the answer to that. Not well versed enough on the history.


17 posted on 07/23/2022 11:29:36 AM PDT by Hootowl99
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To: nwrep

A couple of Christian monks smuggled out silkworm eggs to Constantinople during the reign of Justinian I. Before that the Romans had no silk production. But they imported silk from China, reworked it, and re-exported the improved cloth back to China, leading the Chinese to think that the Romans had a supply of silk.


18 posted on 07/23/2022 1:06:50 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Monkey Face

Very true. Only the MSM does it intentionally.
Kids just make mistakes.


19 posted on 07/23/2022 3:14:07 PM PDT by oldvirginian (The CCP is the world's largest criminal organization. )
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To: Hootowl99

Thanks!


20 posted on 07/23/2022 3:25:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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