Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire

YouTube ^ | October 13, 2019 | Voices of the Past

[SunkenCiv]

"The ruler of Da Qin is not permanent. When disasters result from unusual phenomena, they unceremoniously replace him, installing a virtuous man as king, and release the old king, who does not dare show resentment..."

Here we have the words of the early third century Chinese historian Yu Huan, who lived during the Three Kingdoms period of Chinese history. Though he never left China, he collected large amounts of information on the countries to the West, chief among them the Roman Empire.

Enormous thanks to John E. Hill for kindly allowing us to use his translation, and for tips on the possible locations mentioned and correct pronunciation. There is still some debate on some of the places mentioned in the text, so please enjoy debating further about it!

Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire // 3rd century AD "Weilüe" // Primary Source
October 13, 2019 | Voices of the Past

[SunkenCiv]

Voices of the Past released an excellent narrated video called: Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire // 3rd century AD "Weilüe" // Primary Source. In it Yu Huan of Wei gives us a window into what ancient China knew about Da Qin or ancient Rome. We provide context for the text and then go line by line to analyze what the historian got right or wrong. This includes his description of the silk road travel route by land and sea as well as his description of Roman customs, government, dependencies, and trade goods.

How accurate is this? - Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire
(Voices of the Past)
November 4, 2019 | Invicta

[Wilhelm Tell]

Interesting!

[fidelis]

BFL. Thanks SC.

[SunkenCiv]

In recognition of the enthusiasm surrounding last week's video on China's perspective, here we have a video exploring the reverse.

There are however very few Roman accounts of China that have survived to us - and those that we do have are very limited. Here we have two short extracts from Pliny's magnum opus "Naturalis Historia", in which he describes what he knows of the people of Serica and its surroundings far to the east, and how they in turn affected the Rome he knew at the time. In the second extract he describes a mysterious people (who he again dubs "Seres") whom the people of "Taprobane" (modern day Sri Lanka) apparently crossed a mountain range to trade with.

As with our previous video on China, a lot of the locations (and indeed the peoples) mentioned are still debated by scholars.

Roman Scholar Describes Ancient China // 1st century AD // Pliny the Elder on the "Seres"
October 23, 2019 | Voices of the Past

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This is the third in our series on the relationship between China and the Roman Empire - in this case the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire).

Here we have an extract from the Old Book of Tang, the first history compiled of the Tang Dynasty in 945 AD. It is a compilation of earlier annals, dating from the 7th century up until the 10th, which shine light on the Chinese opinion of the Byzantine empire and the various embassies between the two states.

Chinese Historian Describes the Byzantine Empire // 7-10th century "Book of Tang" // Primary Source
November 2, 2019 | Voices of the Past

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• Ancient China and Rome: 1000 Years of Contact // DOCUMENTARY | 1:34:16 duration
  September 25, 2021 | Voices of the Past | YouTube
• Voices of the Past [YouTube videos]
• Dr Raoul McLaughlin [YouTube videos]
• Seattle Silk Road

[SunkenCiv]

My pleasure.

[SunkenCiv]

[Flick Lives]

Sounds interesting. These two empires knew of each other and even traded, but the distances were so vast to travel back then, they might as well have been on different planets.

[oldvirginian]

Like the old children’s game where an adult would whisper a short sentence or phrase into the ear of a child who would in turn whisper it into the ear of another child. Ten or so children later the result rarely made sense much less had anything to do with the original sentence or phrase.

[skeeter]

Apparently this guy wrote everything down.

[Monkey Face]

It’s not just children who can mess up a sentence in that way. Put 10 adults in a circle under the same circumstances, and we have today’s MSM.

‘Face

;o]

[SunkenCiv]

[snip] ...embassy claiming to have been sent by the Emperor An-tun [Sinicized name of Marcus. Aurelius Antoninus (r. 161-180)] was received at the Chinese court [/snip]

Erythrean Sea Trade: The Origin of Rome’s Contact with China
Joshua Hall
Western Oregon University
https://digitalcommons.wou.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1107&context=his

(this Roman-era visitor was probably a private trade delegation, in a foreign court claiming the imperial imprimatur lent some safety)

[SunkenCiv]

Here's the YouTube-generated transcript, btw, it's hideously poor.

Transcript
0:08	the kingdom of Dutch in also called Li
0:11	Jian was West ah fangshi and TR XI and
0:15	west of a big sea after the frontier of
0:20	our Shi you take a boat from the city of
0:23	Anjou and cut directly across to hi she
0:26	with favourable winds it takes two
0:29	months if the winds are slow perhaps a
0:32	year if there is no wind perhaps three
0:35	years the country that you reach years
0:39	west of the sea which is why it is
0:42	called hi she there is a river flowing
0:46	out of the west of this country and then
0:49	there is another big sea the city of Ho
0:52	Chi San is in high XI from below this
0:57	country you go north to reach the city
0:59	of Wudang you then head south west and
1:02	cross a river by boat which takes a day
1:06	he had Southwest again and again cross a
1:09	river by boat which takes another day
1:12	there are in all three major cities that
1:15	you come to now if you leave the city of
1:20	Van Gogh by the overland route you go
1:23	north to high bay then West to high she
1:26	then turns south to go through the city
1:29	of Wu Chi san after crossing a river
1:32	which takes a day by boat you circle
1:34	around the coast from there six days is
1:38	generally enough to cross another big
1:40	sea to reach that country
1:46	[Music]
1:55	this country da chin has more than 400
1:59	smaller cities and towns it extends
2:02	several thousand Li in all directions
2:04	the king's seat of government is close
2:08	to the mouth of a river the outer walls
2:12	of the city are made of stone this
2:14	region has pine trees Cypress Sephora
2:18	catalpa bamboo reeds poplars willows
2:21	parasol trees and all sorts of plants
2:24	the people cultivate the five grains and
2:28	they raise horses mules donkeys camels
2:31	and silkworms they have a tradition of
2:36	amazing conjuring they can produce fire
2:40	from their mouths bind and then free
2:43	themselves and juggle twelve balls with
2:46	extraordinary skill
2:53	the ruler of this country is not
2:56	permanent when disasters result from
2:59	unusual phenomena they unceremoniously
3:02	replace him
3:03	installing a virtuous man as king and
3:06	release the old king who does not dare
3:09	show resentment the common people are
3:12	tall and virtuous like the Chinese but
3:16	where who clothes they say they
3:19	originally came from China but left it
3:23	they have always wanted to communicate
3:25	with China but and she jealous of their
3:29	profits would not allow them to pass
3:30	through to China the layman can read or
3:36	write
3:37	who script they have multi-storied
3:40	public buildings and private they fly
3:43	flags beat drums travel in small
3:47	carriages with white roofs and have a
3:49	postal service with relay sheds and
3:53	postal stations like in the Middle
3:56	Kingdom from Anxi you go around high bay
3:59	to reach this country the people are
4:02	connected to each other every 10 Li
4:06	there is a relay shed and every 30 Li
4:09	there is a postal station there are no
4:13	bandits or thieves but there are fierce
4:16	tigers and lions that kill those
4:18	traveling on the route if you are not in
4:21	a group you cannot get through this
4:24	country has installed dozens of minor
4:27	kings the Kings administrative capital
4:29	is more than 100 Li around they return
4:33	the official Department of Archives the
4:36	king has five palaces at 10 Li intervals
4:40	he goes out at daybreak to one of the
4:42	palaces and deals with matters until
4:44	sunset and then spends the night there
4:46	the next day he goes to another Palace
4:49	and in five days makes a complete tour
4:53	they have appointed 36 leaders or
4:57	who discuss events frequently if one
5:01	leader does not show up there is no
5:03	discussion when the King goes out for a
5:09	walk he always orders a man to follow
5:11	him holding a leather bag anyone who has
5:14	something to say
5:15	throws his or her petition into the bag
5:18	when he returns to the palace he
5:21	examines them and determines which are
5:23	reasonable they use shoe Jing to make
5:28	the pillars and table utensils in the
5:31	palaces they manufacture bows and arrows
5:35	they divide the various branch
5:37	principalities of their territory into
5:40	small countries such as that of the king
5:42	of jisan the king of Lu fen the king of
5:45	Qi Ilan the king of Shan do the king of
5:48	Sifu and that of the king of U Luo there
5:52	are so many other small kingdoms it is
5:54	impossible to give details on each one
5:59	[Music]
6:01	this country produces fine linen they
6:05	make gold and silver coins one gold coin
6:08	is equal to ten silver coins they have a
6:12	fine tapestry woven cloth that is said
6:14	to be made from the down of a water
6:16	sheep it is called hai she cloth this
6:20	country produces the six domestic
6:21	animals which are said to all come from
6:24	the water it is also said that they not
6:28	only use sheep's wool but also bark from
6:31	trees or make silk from wild cocoons
6:34	they weave woolen carpets finer woollen
6:38	rugs felt rugs or curtains all of them
6:41	of good quality and with brighter colors
6:43	than those made in their countries of
6:45	high dong furthermore they regularly
6:48	make a profit by obtaining Chinese silk
6:51	unraveling it and making who silk damask
6:55	s-- that is why this country trades with
6:58	Anxi across the middle of the sea the
7:01	sea water is bitter and unable to be
7:04	drunk which is why it is rare for those
7:06	who try to make contact to reach China
7:09	the mountains of this country produced
7:13	nine colored inferior jade stones they
7:16	change color on different occasions from
7:18	blue through red yellow white black
7:21	green purple rose and dark blue nowadays
7:25	nine colored stones of the same type are
7:28	found in the evil Shan Duchin has plenty
7:39	of gold silver copper iron lead and tin
7:43	sacred turtles white horses with
7:45	redmayne's white or square lipped
7:48	rhinoceroses tortoise shells
7:50	black bears dragon's blood and mongooses
7:54	large calories giant clams carnelian
7:57	southern gold Kingfisher plumes elephant
8:01	tusks coloured veined Jade bright moon
8:04	pearls night shining pearls genuine
8:08	white pearls yellow amber and red coral
8:11	they have ten types of glaze or glass
8:14	red white black green yellow blue dark
8:16	blue light blue rose and purple fine
8:20	sonorous trade their gemstone Jade rock
8:23	crystal and semi-precious red gems they
8:26	have rail gar orpiment blue green
8:28	semi-precious stone and multicolored
8:31	onyx or jade they have ten types of wool
8:34	carpets yellow white black green purple
8:37	Rose deep red dark blue golden light
8:39	blue and back to yellow finely woven
8:42	multicolored wool pile carpets
8:44	multicolored and nine colored inferior
8:47	quality wool carpets they have gold
8:50	threaded embroidery polychrome silk
8:52	twill woven gold cloth red or purple
8:55	handkerchiefs far lue cloth red or
8:58	purple cool cloth handkerchiefs asbestos
9:01	cloth fine silk gauze cloth base cloth
9:04	do die cloth when Sewell cloth
9:06	multicolored towel cloth hangings with
9:10	scarlet backgrounds woven with gold and
9:14	little round multicolored mosquito nets
9:17	all together they have allowed 12 types
9:20	of aromatic plants as well as the
9:25	overland route from dart Shin through
9:27	high bay one can also follow the sea
9:29	south along the seven commanderies of
9:31	Joshy in contact with foreign people
9:35	nearby is a river route which leads to
9:39	Jung Chang in Yi province
9:40	that's why rare items come from Jung
9:44	Chang in early times only the maritime
9:47	routes to darchen were discussed because
9:50	they did not know that there were
9:51	overland routes west of darchen is a sea
10:00	west of the sea are rivers west of the
10:04	rivers are big mountains running south
10:07	to north west of this is the Chi schooi
10:10	west of the chi schooi are the Bayou
10:13	Shan in the Bayou Sean lives she won mu
10:17	west of she won mu are the long Lucia to
10:20	the west of the Lea Shah is the kingdom
10:23	of - eeeh the kingdom of Jeon Shah the
10:26	kingdom of Shu Yao and the Kingdom of
10:29	the UAG west of these four kingdoms is
10:32	the hey chewy
10:33	which is as far west as I have heard of
10:38	you one the author observes it is
10:42	commonly believed that a fish living in
10:45	a little stream does not know the size
10:47	of the Yangtze River and the sea the
10:50	mayfly for that matter does not know of
10:53	the changing of the four seasons
10:55	why is this so because one lives in a
11:00	small place and the others life is short
11:03	I am at the moment intensively examining
11:08	dart shin and all the other foreign
11:10	kingdoms still it seems to me that I am
11:14	neglecting to fully instruct the
11:17	uninformed moreover as to the
11:19	speculations of Xu yang or the
11:21	hypothesis of the diet a chuan alas I am
11:25	limited to traveling
11:27	by foot and living in the puddle left in
11:30	the hoofprint of an ox besides I don't
11:33	have the longevity of pang shoe it has
11:37	not been my fate to see things firsthand
11:42	traveling with the rapid wins or
11:45	enlisting Swift horses to view distant
11:47	vistas alas I have to strain to see the
11:52	three heavenly bodies but oh how my
11:56	thoughts fly to the eight foreign
11:59	regions
12:06	[Music]
12:15	you

[SunkenCiv]

/bingo

[Hootowl99]

Home run on this history channel link. Kudos to you.

I’ve bookmarked the channel for further exploration.

[nwrep]

Why does the Chinese source describe the Da-Qins (ancient Romans) as having silkworms? Weren’t these a much later import to Rome during the early medieval era?

[kelly4c]

Bkmk

[Hootowl99]

I don’t know the answer to that. Not well versed enough on the history.

[Verginius Rufus]

A couple of Christian monks smuggled out silkworm eggs to Constantinople during the reign of Justinian I. Before that the Romans had no silk production. But they imported silk from China, reworked it, and re-exported the improved cloth back to China, leading the Chinese to think that the Romans had a supply of silk.

[oldvirginian]

Very true. Only the MSM does it intentionally.
Kids just make mistakes.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks!