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US Army using lessons from Ukraine war to aid own training
AP ^ | April 16, 2022 | LOLITA C. BALDOR

Posted on 04/16/2022 10:56:11 AM PDT by MinorityRepublican

FORT IRWIN, Calif. -- In the dusty California desert, U.S. Army trainers are already using lessons learned from Russia's war against Ukraine as they prepare soldiers for future fights against a major adversary such as Russia or China.

The role-players in this month's exercise at the National Training Center speak Russian. The enemy force that controls the fictional town of Ujen is using a steady stream of social media posts to make false accusations against the American brigade preparing to attack.

In the coming weeks, the planned training scenario for the next brigade coming in will focus on how to battle an enemy willing to destroy a city with rocket and missile fire in order to conquer it.

If the images seem familiar, they are, playing out on televisions and websites worldwide right now as Russian forces pound Ukrainian cities with airstrikes, killing scores of civilians. The information war on social media has showcased impassioned nightly speeches by Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, as well as Russian efforts to accuse Ukraine's forces of faking mass killings in towns such as Bucha — massacres that the West blames on Moscow's troops.

“I think right now the whole Army is really looking at what’s happening in Ukraine and trying to learn lessons,” said Army Secretary Christine Wormuth. Those lessons, she said, range from Russia's equipment and logistics troubles to communications and use of the internet.

“The Russia-Ukraine experience is a very powerful illustration for our Army of how important the information domain is going to be," said Wormuth, who spent two days at the training center in the Mojave Desert watching an Army brigade wage war against the fictional “Denovian” forces.

"We’ve been talking about that for about five years. But really seeing it and seeing the way Zelenskyy has been incredibly powerful."

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: china; clownworld; russia; training; trophyaps; ukraine; usa; war
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To: whitney69
I find it humorous that we are supposedly learning a lesson about war from a rag tag group of “combatants” that are using our mostly Russian and old Soviet equipment to fight ...
41 posted on 04/16/2022 12:03:45 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: MinorityRepublican

Just bypass the cities.


42 posted on 04/16/2022 12:06:38 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: Renfrew

I’m thinking the future may involve swarms of small cheap drones doing reconnaissance and target designation, and missiles launched from long distances taking out the designated targets.


43 posted on 04/16/2022 12:08:23 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (A Leftist can't enjoy life unless they are controlling, hurting, or destroying others)
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To: allendale
I think it is a mistake to assume those weapon systems are obsolete based on Russia's experience in ukraine because Russia's employment of those weapons was so poor.

Rather than employing their armor en masse and using speed, they chose a lumbering, broad front advance with dispersed armor. That made their armor much more vulnerable, and it didn't help that they tended to advance without close infantry support.

The Moskva apparently rode the same track for days, making it much easier to target. And neither their armor nor the Moskva was properly supported with SEAD missions. Just bad tactics.

I do agree that surface ships and armor are more vulnerable than they used to be, but they also are necessary for effective large-scale offensive action. Dismounted infantry armed with anti-armor missiles and drones make a nice defensive force, but are lacking in offensive punch and mobility. Tactically, the Russians played right into the strength of the Ukrainian defense.

44 posted on 04/16/2022 12:08:26 PM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: Gaffer

The side/force that can shut down the internet entirely.

Shut down the tens of thousands of Starlinks and other competitors? Good luck


45 posted on 04/16/2022 12:08:53 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
We were not chased out of Afghanistan. We left the country voluntarily.

It was the same liberal's model as Viet Nam. Ridiculous rules of engagement, no support from the political class and a hostile media. Cap that with a totally uncoordinated withdrawal driven by inept civilian leadership at the highest levels.

46 posted on 04/16/2022 12:11:46 PM PDT by pfflier
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To: PIF

Not talking about ‘local’ access and/or jamming.


47 posted on 04/16/2022 12:16:33 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer

Then what are you talking about? be clear.


48 posted on 04/16/2022 12:17:41 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
We were not chased out of Afghanistan. We left the country voluntarily.

Yeah, just like Vietnam.

49 posted on 04/16/2022 12:25:12 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Celebrate Decivilization)
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To: PIF

Currently as I understand it there has to be a ground gateway within about 500 miles of each Starlink terminal (until intra-constellation laser communication obviates that distance limitation). To get to the rest of the internet a gateway somewhere would still have to be accessed. Then it’s the same internet - a computer interface system using a variety of interconnection means handling the same protocols.

The idea that there aren’t countries in this world who have tried, tested or are working on similar means of stopping the flow or how computers interface is not far fetched at all.


50 posted on 04/16/2022 12:28:32 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer; PIF

EMP’s? Or does that blind everyone?


51 posted on 04/16/2022 12:39:42 PM PDT by outofsalt (If history teaches us anything, it's that history rarely teaches anything.)
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To: PGR88

“The biggest lesson learned is that America will probably also need its own brand of “de-nazification” of DC deep-state, woke, neocon, elites who will sacrifice you and everyone else for their insane political schemes”.

Winning post of this thread! Bravo!


52 posted on 04/16/2022 12:43:12 PM PDT by laplata (")
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To: outofsalt

EMPs? could work, but every modern warfare system could also be knocked out. Most are hardened but not all. So only old mechanical systems would work, but only until fuel ran out, then there would be no more - as all power generation would also be knocked out. More trouble than its worth.


53 posted on 04/16/2022 12:45:16 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: GreyFriar

It is very interesting to consider the historical mastery of the operational art of the “Deep Battle” concept of strategic operations epitomized by great Russian captains like Georgy Zhukov, Ivan Konev and Konstantine Rokkosovsky, and the seeming failure to succeed on this occasion with it.

The destruction of German Army Group Center in the summer of 1944 and the Vistula-Oder offensives reflected the Soviet high level grasp of the operational art, to an extent that was probably unequalled by any other major combatant of WW II.

Deep battle encompassed maneuver by multiple Soviet Army front-size formations simultaneously. It not intended to achieve victory immediately, but rather to induce a catastrophic failure in the enemy’s defenses by a series of parallel and multiple operations conducted on many axis’s of advance. It also required far greater amounts of manpower then the Russians have committed here. They seem to have thought they could prevail with a shoe string operation.

I agree with your assessment of the Russian army’s lack of initiative at the tactical and mid level management sphere, PARTICULARLY insofar as they lack a well developed NCO corp. This is something that many authoritarian regimes are loathe to do because they fear people thinking independently. An exception was the German Army of World War II, but it had ALREADY long established and inculcated the concept of Auftragstaktik and personal initiative into the Wehrmacht long before the ascension of the Third Reich.

Last but not least, the corruption that seems to infest the Russian armed forces is also appearing to manifest itself in the form of reduced combat efficiency.


54 posted on 04/16/2022 12:56:23 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: Bayard

—> When are we getting Ironman suits for soldiers?

Once we make sure all soldiers are vaxxed and properly display their personal pronouns, we will complete the critical race training and pride celebrations.

Only then will we allow IronBinary suits to be issued.


55 posted on 04/16/2022 12:58:48 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Fraud vitiates everything.)
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To: MinorityRepublican

The CIA has training Ukrainian paramilitaries to “kill Russians” ever since thee 2014 CIA proxy coup.

https://wearechange.org/bombshell-the-cia-has-been-training-ukrainian-paramilitaries-to-kill-russians/


56 posted on 04/16/2022 1:02:16 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Depopulate the depopulationists. --FJB)
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To: MinorityRepublican

When SHTF, and it always does, everyone is Infantry. Whether they want to be or not.
Why is the sky blue? Because God loves the Infantry!
Ain’t that right, my blue-cord brothers!?


57 posted on 04/16/2022 1:14:48 PM PDT by vpintheak (Live free, or die!)
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To: PIF

“Which have a 15 sec survival time in a peer conflict. Once seen, instantly destroyed.”

Helicopters have a lot of functions. The days of “Ride of the Valkyries” were cool in 1970s movies, and in actual combat as CAS they were good, if the enemy wasn’t properly equipped against them; but in today’s environment against a modern force, or a modernly-equipped force, I’d be reluctant to employ them as such. The same threat against helicopters also affects tanks: Modern weaponry. Also, compared to helicopters, tanks can’t take effective evasive action: They are too heavy and too slow. Modern arty is more effective in reducing a target, anyway. I’m afraid tanks have gone the way of the battleship. JMHO.


58 posted on 04/16/2022 2:18:17 PM PDT by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule. )
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To: outofsalt
"EMP’s? Or does that blind everyone?"

Maybe the "blind" man in Italy can blame it on an EMP. LOL

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/04/16/man-on-disability-welfare-accused-of-faking-blindness-after-being-caught-looking-at-womans-bottom/

59 posted on 04/16/2022 2:18:43 PM PDT by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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To: Tell It Right

Should’ve learned Braile!)


60 posted on 04/16/2022 2:31:55 PM PDT by outofsalt (If history teaches us anything, it's that history rarely teaches anything.)
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