Posted on 01/12/2022 9:04:56 AM PST by COBOL2Java
Will I Be Arrested After a Self-Defense Incident?
Will you be arrested after a self-defense incident? Why are some people arrested immediately, some people arrested weeks or months later, and some people never arrested? The Armed Attorneys break down what you need to know about arrest after self-defense.
Yep, remember the Bernard Goetz case in New york city? 3 thugs tried to mug him on a NYC subway and he shot all 3 and they sued Goetz, with the backing of Al Sharpton of course, and Goetz was found liable for $72 million!! I don’t care if I lived in absolutely poverty for the rest of my life, I would rather die than ever pay one cent of that.
https://assets.cdn.usconcealedcarry.com/pdf/guides/USCCA_6ThingsYouDidntKnow.pdf
$300 per year or jail and lawyer fees.
USCCA. Check them out.
Don't tell that to members of Free Republic. Ever since I been here, it has been Free Republic dogma that, when the balloon went up, Le [The Police] would be on our side. That was not open to debate. That was dogma.
911
USCCA Emergency Hot Line
USCCA $300/yr for basic
Totally worth it
Other than providing your ID and in my case my CC permit since I'm armed...there is no reason to say anything to LE.
Do your duty in reporting a crime and requesting assistance. Say nothing else, even if they accuse you of being unhelpful, un-cooperative, "it'll be quicker/easier if you just talk to me..." or even threaten you with obstruction of justice - they'll never make it stick if you are merely awaiting legal representation. Say nothing. Nothing you say can help you. Anything you say can hurt you. So say nothing. Your lawyer will thank you for making his/her job (keeping you out of jail) easier.
IIRC I heard somewhere that when there is an officer involved shooting the police unions have negotiated there will be a 72 hr waiting period. They won't interview the officer(s) involved in the shooting for 72 hrs, and not until they have legal representation. So don't feel bad about making them wait until your lawyer is available.
17,252,822 views Mar 20, 2012
If you are arrested in these circumstances, the police will have to come up with some evidence to show "probable cause" that you committed a crime. That evidence will have to be presented at your arraignment before a judge. The prosecution may present its own version of events, which is why cases wind up having to have the facts decided in court. Simply arresting you to let someone else figure it out may often happen, but it's actually illegal.
Bkmk self defense
and some people never arrested?
***It’s usually because they get the frack out of there and never look back. That’s what Bernard Goetz should have done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting#Shooter
I hadn’t until now. Thanks.
That dogma is really changing rapidly. From what I can see, the bootlicker brigade has bailed on FR. There simply have been too many instances where the cops have acted with malice for ordinary citizens.
The police do not write the laws and in most cases they have limited discretion in how to treat suspects of serious crimes, particularly homicides. So if you shoot someone, even if it’s justifiable, and especially if the person you shot died, you’re probably going to get cuffed-and-stuffed and taken to the jail for questioning, just because whenever there’s a homicide, police like to make sure none of the principals go missing before they’ve managed to separate the pepper from the fly specks.
So even though you might not at that moment be arrested, you still can be taken downtown and detained until someone above the paygrade of the responding officers takes responsibility for cutting you loose. Which is why everyone who keeps a firearm for home or self-defense needs to take two precautions.
#1, Contact your local jail and ask about bail procedures. Some jurisdictions do not allow professional bail-bondsmen. If that’s your case you’d definitely want to know beforehand so you can have a plan for how to get bailed. Some jails keep a copy of the local property tax records so they know how much any real estate you might own is worth. And if its value is more than your bail, they will accept a lien on your property as bail.
If you have to pay a professional bondsman to bail you out, he will charge a fee — usually 10% of the full amount — to bail you. So if your bail is $10,000, he will charge you $1000 and in exchange he makes a guarantee to the jail to pay the full $10,000 if you fail to make your court date. If you make your court date he keeps the the $10,000 he put as risk AND the $1000 you paid him. Paying a bondsman is unavoidably expensive, but making property bail is free, provided you don’t skip. But a lot of property owners still hire a bondsman because they don’t know about property bail, and the jailers aren’t likely to warn you in advance.
So there’s a lot of ins and outs, just make sure you know what to expect if you get charged, and what you’re going to have to do to get released on bail, and have a plan in place for getting out.
#2, Have an agreement with an attorney to represent you in such a situation, keep his 24-hour phone number in your wallet, and DO NOT talk to police without legal representation present.
Once you’ve been cuffed and stuffed your long-term liberty is at stake, so don’t count on the Good Ol’ Boy network to save your bacon. Weigh every word you utter as if that is the word that will make the difference between whether or not you have a date with Ol’ Sparky, because it very well could be.
Lago: italua3n for “lake”
The Greek*lagoōusós, translates to” “with flabby ears”
You won’t get taken downtown if you request medical assistance. That will give you time to call an attorney. Just do what I did in a previous post. Articulate, set the narrative, request medical assistance and STFU.
The second part of the advice I have gotten is that once you pull your firearm, any hesitation to shoot can quickly become an admission to a jury that your life was not in immediate danger at the moment you pulled the firearm out of concealment. Stated another way, you either just committed the criminal act of “brandishing,” you recklessly endangered another person's life, or you voided any self-defense plea by escalating a confrontation to a deadly force confrontation by drawing your deadly force weapon (assuming the other person was not at the moment attacking you with a deadly force weapon-—NOTE if you ever claim that they were attacking you with a deadly force weapon, you have to explain to the jury why, under a reasonable man doctrine, you did not immediately shoot).
That means that if you do carry, you need to have identified a criminal attorney specializing in firearms laws and you need to have that phone number on you at all times.
You also need to “really understand” the “use of deadly force laws” in your area, along with self defense laws. When I say “really understand,” I don't mean what the laws say, but how the local courts have been interpreting them and what kind of jury instructions local judges give in cases where those laws are critical to your defense.
The US Judicial system is about written laws, how they have been interpreted in the past, and technicalities. It is absolutely not about justice nor right and wrong. Justice can demand you freedom, but technicalities and lock you in jail and financially destroy your family.
Even if the “criminal justice system” doesn't destroy you for protecting yourself, the “civil court system” has horrific examples of people judged not guilty in a criminal court or not tried in a criminal court, being financially destroyed in a civil court proceeding because a jury decided that the person killed or injured “was basically a good person and the person with the firearm was a reckless evil person.” Facts don't really matter all that matters is what the jury wants to do.
Where I live, we have some really great firearms laws experts who have written books on the topic and who have lectured on the topic. The gun range I belong to has a number of police officers, attorney's and judges who are members and hold informal discussions or will answer questions unofficially when put to them.
Police are judged by their performance. Part of that is the number of arrests that resulted in conviction.
They are thinking of their next raise or promotion, not about doing justice for you.
Say nothing.
If you “really understand” then you’ll walk away from the scene, get rid of the gun, and zip it. Even in the reddest of red states.
I can agree with your post with an exception to your second paragraph. If you are saying to train yourself to always pull the trigger following drawing from you holster, you are not accounting for things that could have changed the threatening situation between when you grip the gun in the holster and when you pull the trigger. As just one example, if the threat stops, turns and begins to run as you draw, are you still pulling the trigger?
Maybe that’s not what you are saying, but one should allow for complete and continual judgment of the circumstances all the way to the point of putting your finger on the trigger and pressing off that shot. If you didnt need to shoot, a good attorney is going to argue you exercised good judgement in that case as well as arguing your need to brandish when the threat existed. (”brandishing” isn’t illegal if you are threatened with death or grave bodily harm)
I suppose it becomes a question of how much you practice drawing your weapon and how fast you can draw and fire.
If you are really slow, then you are probably correct, but likely to be dead.
At the point of drawing the weapon, something changes from a threat to not a threat, that would likely be telegraphed in advance. In theory you as suppose to be very sure that your life is in grave danger the moment you draw your weapon. Hard to imagine someone threatening deadly force upon you instantly changing into a “non-threat.”
I’ll give another example, you see a threat and draw on him/her just as someone runs between you and threat. My point is the decision to pull the trigger is not made when you retrieve the gun from the holster.
Amongst my training regimens, I train and game scenarios with simunitions in multi room shoot houses with real good guys and real bad guys in the shoot house. You never know what the scene will be when you enter the room or who might come around a corner. Under stress, low light, high noise, people running around screaming and yelling, I witness many fast shooters shoot good guys because they have yet to learn that they need to access right up to the moment of trigger break.
If Kyle rittenhouse had accidentally shot a non-com while defending himself, the trial would have been very different.
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