Posted on 05/04/2021 7:47:05 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica
With all of the cancel culture and history re-writing that's gone on, a longing has started to develop among some conservatives and conservative websites lately for classic works.
Examples may include the Iliad, anything by Aristotle or Plato, Moby Dick, Shakespeare, Cicero, Hobbes' Leviathan, Machiavelli, and many others.
The thing that I can't understand, is why aren't the Founders included in the category of the classics?
PING
I suspect that there may be a handful who will reply here immediately to me in the affirmative that yes they personally consider the Founders as classics, but I mean the question in an overarching view.
Aren’t the Founders THE classic, the most important classic? Way more important than any of the others listed or some I didn’t list?(We can all name some “classics” of our own)
How about limiting “the classics” to works originally written in Greek or Latin?
While not exactly one of the founders, Joseph Story’s “Commentaries On The Constitution...” should be required reading for any US civics class.
so, I have designed and implemented numerous efforts to bring a classics-based education to those interested, whether young or old
I absolutely consider the Founders to be classics, and I would insist that people read closely the Federalist Papers, Washington’s farewell address, Joseph Addison’s Cato, and a few others. I am also assuming that anyone tackling these works have already studied the Constitution, and the Declaration.
I also think the classics of the Founders are best tackled with a thorough grounding in those classics you cite which precede them....especially Roman history, which they were very, very familiar with. I would omit Hobbes and Machiavelli. And if I was forced to put in one of those, I’d go with Machiavelli. I don’t consider Hobbes to be a classic, or really at all interesting. But that’s an opinion. I generally leave out Mach precisely for the reason that there is no evidence that the Founders were very aware of him at all. (Though sometimes I have taught his Discourses on Livy....which is less torturous than Livy straight up....)
The question, what is the most important? is very interesting. If our goal is human flourishing, then it’s hard to say they are the MOST important....but if our goal is to the polis, then they are probably the most important, though understood best on the firm foundation of Roman history (which requires some knowledge of Greek history and philosophy), Christianity (especially the Reformation), and yes, the Enlightenment. Each of these pillars flow into the practical genius of the Founders.
British history is also pretty important, to say the least....
And that is precisely the problem with lists. There is no logical place to stop; so much is important.
But we can dispense with a few charlatans....ie, Hobbes lol
They’re certainly in the Great Books series.
One way to look at it is the assign “classic” status to the writings that inspired the Founders. Nearly all of them had a classical education and studied what’s listed above... in addition to John Locke and others.
:-)
I’m sure there are some people who would take you up on that offer!
While the writings of the Founders are very interesting and significant, they are not anywhere near the level of discourse and complexity of the classics.
Politically and historically yes, the Founder’s documents are very significant, and should be studied and even taught in middle and high school.
There was a very interesting discussion here several years ago about the Federalist Papers. Unfortunately, I don’t have the time to find it right now, but if you are interested, I will look for it later.
Yeah, Story got a lot right. That would make a great audiobook too.
Yeah, there are certainly a lot of things that could be put into the category.
I also thought about this after posting, “I bet someone will bring up the Federalist Papers”. If anything of the Founding pierces the “classics veil”(I made that up) it would be the Federalist. The other is probably Common Sense. But I can’t think of any time where any of the other’s writings were considered classic and there’s a huge body of work that is always just constantly disregarded and thrown away.
"they are not anywhere near the level of discourse and complexity of the classics."
Yeah, I don't understand. Why? Could you explain this further?
The Founders were writing about their contemporary politics in a direct and literal manner. They were having direct discussions about things in the here and now. The classics were written as metaphor, with simile and indirect reference being the methods used. This meant that the classics’ writers had to disguise their intent, motivation, and final literary destination. Thus the flowery prose and indirect references to the events of their time.
While the Founders knew that if caught they would be punished severely as well, they had faith enough in their cause that they stood behind their words publically.
There are reasons other than time that we don’t know who Homer actually was. Political persecution is nothing new.
Some later works would qualify under that rubric, like Thomas More's Utopia.
by any standard, the Federalist Papers are a tour de force....
it probably is true that other than the few we have mentioned why the Founders don’t have a lot of “classics”.....I have actually thought about this a lot, and I stated the question a little bit differently, but fundamentally the same.
You could say, why didn’t the founders turn out a lot of poetry (or art, or music...)?
I think the answer is, their lives were their poetry.
They left nothing on the table. They were completely, all in, and it’s a wonder to behold.
And their bringing our polis into existence allows the American polis to flourish, which allows Moby Dick to come into being.....
All subsequent art/music/poetry rests on the foundation that the Founders gave us.
Their achievement was complete. They were that great.
Because foreign is always seen as exotic and more wise. This is why chicks get Chinese words written on their back.
IMO .......
Very few comprehend the miracle of having a large group of essentially like minded men, born in the same time frame to initiate, stay with and accomplish this great idea;
That men could be free as God intended to make their own decisions and actually be a positive force for all of humanity.
I realize that is a greatly synopsized statement, but the fact remains, most men taking part in the formulation of our Declaration first, and our Constitution second, were sort of deist Christians, in that, they believed God would guide them to do as they willed.
I'm probably not saying it correctly, but there was a time in history, just as today, when men were unified in purpose and determined to begin the end of their efforts ... for posterity, a concept missing in today's vocabulary and consciousness.
We should read the Founders and try to be their brains and thoughts.
Nathan Hale was called a pamphleteer, because he wrote relatively short treatises with the intent of communicating to those that would absorb his views ....
I consider him a sort of colonial "meme - er"
Norman Rockwell is a later model of the "meme-er" in that he identified AND taught America what she was or what she wanted to be ... never speaking a word, but by illustration, speaking volumes.
The Founders had the original thoughts ... like Genesis .... In the beginning.
my two cents' worth
The Federalist Papers on audio book is awesome. I often listen to it when I’m out walking.
When you say Nathan Hale do you mean Thomas Paine?
When we home-schooled our kids, I had them read children’s books written in the late 1800s. They learned good sentence structure and all of the books had morals. After reading those for a while, they were able to read any newer, full blown novels with ease. They were reading things like Harry Potter series, Percy Jackson series, Lord of the Rings trilogy before they were ten.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.