Savannah physicians compare Johnson & Johnson COVID vaccine coming to Georgia to Pfizer, Moderna

Savannah Now ^ | Mary Landers

[SeekAndFind]

With the emergency use approval of the Johnson & Johnson COVID vaccine last week, Georgians will soon see this third vaccine become available here.

“The Georgia Department of Public Health expects that approximately 83,000 doses will be made available in the first week, and our goal is to get those vaccines administered as quickly as possible," Gov. Brian Kemp said in a prepared statement.

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine, produced by its vaccine division, Janssen Pharmaceuticals, is one dose and requires only normal refrigeration. Those are big advantages for getting lots of people vaccinated quickly.

But the Johnson & Johnson vaccine's overall efficacy in preventing symptomatic coronavirus infections is pegged at 66% compared to 94% and 95% efficacy in the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines respectively after the second dose of each.

Some vaccine seekers may prefer the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines because of these greater stated efficacies. But three Savannah area physicians say those numbers don't tell the whole story.

Dr. Julia Mikell, vice president of medical affairs at St. Joseph's/Candler, said she understands the impulse, but vaccine recipients should look at the big picture.

"I do think that the whole point is getting as many people as we can vaccinated, and this is a way to make that happen," she said. "And you may say 'well, I want somebody else to do that. And I want the deluxe," but in fact this is going to keep you out of trouble."

By "trouble," Mikell is talking about severe illness or death. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine shines in preventing these bad outcomes, with 100% efficacy in preventing both.

"In the vaccine arm of the Johnson & Johnson study, there were no hospitalizations, and no deaths," Mikell said. "And it's one shot.

[Dr. Franklin]

That's wildly, blatantly false and it isn't what the idiotic LifeSite News article you linked to says.

March 1, 2021 (LifeSiteNews) — While in January a group of independent doctors concluded that experimental COVID-19 vaccines are “not safer” than the virus itself, a new analysis of vaccine-related death rates in Israel demonstrates that this may indeed be the case to dramatic levels. A re-analysis of published data from the Israeli Health Ministry by Dr. Hervé Seligmann, a member of the faculty of Medicine Emerging Infectious and Tropical Diseases at Aix-Marseille University, and engineer Haim Yativ reveal, in short, that the mRNA experimental vaccine from Pfizer killed “about 40 times more (elderly) people than the disease itself would have killed” during a recent five-week vaccination period. Among the younger class, these numbers are compounded to death rates at 260 times what the COVID-19 virus would have claimed in the given time frame.
Experimental vaccine death rate for Israel’s elderly 40 times higher than COVID-19 deaths: researchers

Read much? What it means is that people died faster after getting the shots than if they didn't.

Just because someone died sometime after getting the shot doesn't mean they died from the shot.

When enough people die faster after getting the shots, statistically, it means benefit vs. risk analysis for the vax fails.

[SecAmndmt]

It is an open forum.

I did not insult you. Simply basic info about science, data and models requested.

You’re OK slingimg insults about flat earthers, but you don’t like being challenged on the science, do you?

[semimojo]

Read much?

A fair amount. You said

"According to the Israeli Health Ministry the Pfizer vax 'killed “about 40 times more (elderly) people than the disease itself would have killed..."

That's a lie and you can't point me to any statement or data from the Health Ministry to back it up. In fact, I provided quotes from them saying there had been almost no adverse reactions and certainly no deaths.

The yahoos who did the "analysis" LifeSite reported on don't even make that claim. Thay say:

"They have three sources of information, besides the emails and adverse event reports they receive through the Internet. These three sources are Israeli news site Ynet, the Israeli Health Ministry database, and the U.S. federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database"

They don't claim the Health Ministry agrees with them, instead they torture the HM's data and make ridiculous assumptions and include VAERS data they clearly don't understand to make a ludicrous point.

When enough people die faster after getting the shots, statistically, it means benefit vs. risk analysis for the vax fails.

Not that I accept their statistics but you've just proven that you don't understand the most basic rule of this type of statistical analysis - correlation does not imply causation.

I challenge you to find reports of a significant number of deaths caused by the vaccine.

You may want to start with the CDC but I warn you it's going to be a chore.

"Over 76 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 1, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 1,381 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths."

[Dr. Franklin]

Not that I accept their statistics but you've just proven that you don't understand the most basic rule of this type of statistical analysis - correlation does not imply causation.

Wow! You've just turned the burden of proof for the vaccine on inside out. The proponents of the vaccine need to prove it safe, both short and long term. It's not the other way around. When more people die after getting this EXPERIMENTAL vaccine than the test group, the presumption is the vax is unsafe. If you reject that basic premise, and insist that everyone must ASS/U/ME that anyone who dies after getting vaccinated is just a coincidental death. You need to prove that to the world. Show everyone the data and the statistics for the deaths for the Pfizer vax vs. unvaccinated.

That's a lie and you can't point me to any statement or data from the Health Ministry to back it up. In fact, I provided quotes from them saying there had been almost no adverse reactions and certainly no deaths.

We bring a very important example from the article, in relation to the table provided by the Ministry of Health. As per the text "However, 546 among the dead were such that were not at all vaccinated or got the first vaccination dose within two weeks before their death" differs from the table. This is clearly unfounded because all data presented in the table and provided below describe only COVID-19 patients that got at least the first vaccination dose. This is clear from examining the table. The grand total is 43781 COVID patients who got the first or the second vaccine dose. Among the total of 660 deaths, 546 got only the first dose. The data in the table, rather than indicating the vaccine efficiency, indicate the vaccine's adverse effects.
The uncovering of the vaccination data in Israel reveals a frightening picture
So people who died after getting the vax are misrepresented as never having received it. Why would they do that?

A sober analysis of the IHM is that people plainly did die after getting the vaccine: During the vaccination action from mid-December until mid-February, 2337 among all 5351 COVID-19 deaths reported for Israel occurred, 43.7%. Among these, since January 19, 1271 COVID-19 deaths were reported for Israel.The table provided by the Ministry of Health on February 10 states 660 COVID-19 deaths among the vaccinated, 51.9% of the deaths for that period. Only 1.3 million Israeli, among 8 million (about 1 in 8, 12.5%), were vaccinated during that period. Accordingly, vaccination promotes deaths because 51.9% of deaths during that period are for the 12.5% vaccinated in that period. In addition the serious and critical cases during that period is more than the reported serious cases, the adverse effect of the vaccination process is most likely worse than what appears from the data at hand.

So, that destroys your claim that the vax is 100% effective. Unfortunately, Big Pharma has big money, which clearly interfered with logical decisions on this vax.

[semimojo]

The proponents of the vaccine need to prove it safe, both short and long term.

They have and you know it. The FDA has approved three vaccines after extensive double blind, randomized trials. Don't be cute.

You next quote a wall of words from the disingenuous article, none of them backing up your claim that the Ministry of Health said the vaccine killed more than 40 times the number of people than would have died without the vaccine. As I said, you can't point me to anything they've said that doesn't directly contradict your claim.

In fact, what you posted proves my point. The "researchers" complain that the Ministry doesn't understand it's own numbers, only these three idiots do.

So, that destroys your claim that the vax is 100% effective.

LOL. I see your habit of making things up about what others have said isn't limited to the Ministry of Health.

[Jane Long]

“I do think that the whole point is getting as many people as we can vaccinated, and this is a way to make that happen,”

---

Yikes! Who does she think she is? Bill Gates?

Scary.

[Jane Long]

The proponents of the vaccine need to prove it safe, both short and long term. It’s not the other way around...

---

Precisely.

And, they have not....and, cannot....because there is no ‘long-term’, yet, and many ‘short-term’ side effect stories are being purposely suppressed (I know, shocking that news is actually being censored, in this day and age /s).

[Dr. Franklin]

They have and you know it. The FDA has approved three vaccines after extensive double blind, randomized trials. Don't be cute.

They haven't and WE know it. Military personal are refusing to take the vaccine because it is still EXPERIMENTAL, was only approved for EMERGENCY USE, As formal FDA approval is YEARS AWAY:
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/military-covid-vaccine/
EMERGENCY USE was approved due to 1) hysteria caused by gross over inflation of the number of people dying from Covid, 2) suppression of cheap, effective treatments like HCQ and ivermectin, and 3) suppressing or misrepresenting the actual results of the trials, including the adverse effects of the millions who have now participated as human guinea pigs in the experiment. What it is. People like you want to believe in RAINBOWS AND UNICORNS, i.e., that some magic solution exists to a virus that is extremely rarely deadly. If you want to be a human guinea pig it's your choice. The problem is that you want to impose your naivete on others, including helpless vulnerable elderly people living in institutions, or women of child bearing age who might become infertile. That's wrong.

You next quote a wall of words from the disingenuous article, none of them backing up your claim that the Ministry of Health said the vaccine killed more than 40 times the number of people than would have died without the vaccine

Uh, sorry you can't understand what you read, or anything you don't want to believe becomes a "wall of words" which you choose not to understand. What the authors wrote is that IMH conducted a trial of the vaccine on a group of people. The data provided in the tables clearly showed that the results that hundreds of people died after taking the vaccine. Yet, the text explained this away as people who hadn't received the vaccine. So, the IMH report CONTRADICTED ITSELF, in an illogical way. Either the IMH conducted a trial of the Pfizer vaccine on people or it didn't. Writing that the people in the trial who died, hadn't received the vaccine is absurd. Of course, for people like you who want to believe all of the BS choose to just ignore that.

As I said, you can't point me to anything they've said that doesn't directly contradict your claim.

Again, it's not my claim. The critical analysis of the IMH's data comes from Hervé Seligmann and Haim Yativ, who appear to be very respected professionals. Their analysis has not been rebutted. You have not supported your claim of your irrational belief of a magic harmless vaccine for a very treatable virus. Please tell us more about the beautiful rainbows and unicorns in your world!

[Dr. Franklin]

Precisely. And, they have not....and, cannot....because there is no ‘long-term’, yet, and many ‘short-term’ side effect stories are being purposely suppressed (I know, shocking that news is actually being censored, in this day and age /s).

The gullible who got sucked into the myth of the "untreatable deadly virus" now want to believe in the rainbows and unicorns of the magic harmless vaccine. See above.

[Jane Long]

Spot on.

When leftists cannot argue the facts, they resort to attacking the messenger.

Thanks for beautifully exposing thier tactic....being used, right here :-(

[semimojo]

Yet, the text explained this away as people who hadn't received the vaccine. So, the IMH report CONTRADICTED ITSELF, in an illogical way. Either the IMH conducted a trial of the Pfizer vaccine on people or it didn't.

Glad to see you're admitting that the Ministry didn't say those things you attributed to them. You somehow seemed to conflate the article's ignorant musings about what the Ministry said (and still continues to say) with what they actually did said..

It's an old rhetorical trick to give nutball conspiracy rants the gloss of credibility by falsely associating them with a credible authority.

Again, it's not my claim.

Are you having a dissociative episode? Out of thin air you falsely said it was my claim and now you're defensive about it not being yours?

In this entire dialog you're the only person who's brought up the notion that the vaccines are completely safe.

I'll give you credit, though. That strawman's probably not getting up off of the mat.

[Dr. Franklin]

Spot on. When leftists cannot argue the facts, they resort to attacking the messenger. Thanks for beautifully exposing thier tactic....being used, right here :-(

You are quite welcome. Ignorance is bliss!

[Dr. Franklin]

When leftists cannot argue the facts, they resort to attacking the messenger. Thanks for beautifully exposing their tactic....being used, right here :-(

The more common tactic, is to simply misstate the evidence as below:
Glad to see you're admitting that the Ministry didn't say those things you attributed to them. You somehow seemed to conflate the article's ignorant musings about what the Ministry said (and still continues to say) with what they actually did said..
In fact Hervé Seligmann and Haim Yativ refuted a report from an online report which misstated the data from the IMH. The authors corrected that misinformation, "On February 11 2021 Ynet (the most known Israeli News website) published a confused and confusing article entitled "Vaccination efficiency data in Israel, and its rapid effects on the young"... As per the text "However, 546 among the dead were such that were not at all vaccinated or got the first vaccination dose within two weeks before their death" differs from the table. This is clearly unfounded because all data presented in the table and provided below describe only COVID-19 patients that got at least the first vaccination dose. This is clear from examining the table. The grand total is 43781 COVID patients who got the first or the second vaccine dose. Among the total of 660 deaths, 546 got only the first dose. The data in the table, rather than indicating the vaccine efficiency, indicate the vaccine's adverse effects."
http://www.nakim.org/israel-forums/viewtopic.php?t=270812&s=The_uncovering_of_the_vaccination_data_in_Israel__reveals_a_frightening_picture

The data from the IMH should speak for itself, but someone needed to "help" it along with a more cheerful reporting on what is actually quite deadly.

[M. Thatcher]

Prepare to get called every name in the book by the flat earthers

Irony is lost on you, apparently.

[CodeJockey]

Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking the 100% prevention of deaths was just for those involved in the clinical trials.

So in theory, if the entire world population, some 7.8 billion could vaccinated, they would never be a death again attributed to the virus. Amazing they can make that claim.