Posted on 12/25/2020 7:18:23 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson
WASHINGTON, Monday, Dec. 24.
Governor ANDREW, Senators DOOLITTLE and TRUMBULL, Representatives BURLINGAME and TAPPAN, and a number of other Senators and members of Congress, held a conference, yesterday, at the rooms of FRANCIS P. BLAIR, Sr., and unanimously agreed that the integrity of the Union should be preserved, though it cost millions of lives.
Private information reports Gov. HOUSTON as making a great Union speech, in the face of threats, and eventually carrying with him the largest audience ever assembled in Texas. Prominent Republicans are moving here to secure HOUSTON a seat in the Cabinet, as he has indicated his willingness to accept, if necessary to save the Union.
The South Carolina Delegation concluded this morning to send a communication to the Speaker, announcing their withdrawal, and not to appear on the floor, as they conceived themselves as having no right there. The communication created no impression, and received no notice beyond being read. The Republicans declare that an official reception of the South Carolina Commissioners will be treason on the part of the President, and his impeachment is being seriously considered.
Mr. MERCIER, the new French Minister, has just received Imperial permission to add the euphonious affix of "de L'Ostend" to his name. He thus becomes MERCIER DE L'OSTEND -- the latter being the name of his wife.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
First session: November 21, 2015. Last date to add: Sometime in the future.
Reading: Self-assigned. Recommendations made and welcomed.
Posting history, in reverse order
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Link to previous New York Times thread
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Even an impending Civil War was not enough to get the States to call a Convention of States. They did hobble together a mini version which of course was non binding. Perhaps with an impending Democrat-Republican war again they will be able to make the call this time?
Note here there seem to be no unrealistic expectations about a "quick and easy" war.
Thankfully the Civil War did not cost "millions of lives", but some, at least, were ready to pay that price, even still in 1860.
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Stealing an election is anarchy too.
This helps explain why neither outgoing President Buchanan nor incoming President Lincoln did anything to suggest official recognition of secessionists.
The US Constitution puts all such matters in the hands of Congress which was not, in 1860 or 1861, willing to accept secessions as faits accomplis.
t post
Good to see you, Homer.
Given: in 2020, just as in 1860, Democrats want only insanity and Republicans want only to preserve our priceless heritage, so what kind of convention could there be?
Merry Christmas to you.
In 1860 Maryland voted very marginally for Southern Democrat Breckenridge over the Constitutional Union's John Bell.
Neither Republicans nor Northern Democrats were a major factor, except that if their votes could be added to Constitutional Union Bell's, they make a majority for Unionists.
But Maryland's Governor Hicks, elected in 1858, was an American Party, aka "Know Nothings", today we'd say, "America Firster".
America Firsters were, basically, the old Southern Whigs before that party split over slavery.
Later, America Firsters were thoroughly discredited by the events of December, 1941, and have now been somewhat revived under President Trump.
America Firsters were the former Southern Whig allies of Northerners who became Republicans -- they were separated from Republicans by slavery.
But once slavery and all its associated racism are removed from the political equation, America Firsters Constitutional Unionists are the Southern branch of Northern Republicans -- and visa versa.
And the old Whigs were fully capable of carrying majorities in the South -- did so twice, in 1840 and 1848 -- so long as slavery was not on the ballot.
And that is the genius of President Trump -- to bring back Southerners to their "America First" traditions and unite with Northern "make America great" traditions.
Maryland's Governor Hicks was as solid for the Union as could be hoped for.
And when push came to shove, Maryland itself was roughly two-thirds Union, one-third Democrats.
FR posters like DiogenesLamp and others have regaled us endlessly with their economic theories of why the North refused to accept Cotton State secessions.
They say proposals for Southern "Free Trade" had Northerners quaking in their economic boots.
Anything, even the bloodiest war, was preferable to Southern "Free Trade" DiogenesLamp tells us.
So Southern "Free Trade" was the real reason for Civil War, they say.
But in this article, in December 1860, we see the question of Southern "Free Trade" discussed in very reasonable terms and exposed as the fraud & deception it truly was.
I recommend the article, a key point of which is that for six-sevenths of South Carolina's population, everything they lived on was already "free trade" and only luxury goods of the wealthiest one-seventh were taxed, and in amounts that could not be enough to support an independent South Carolina government.
For this article at least, the whole idea of Southern "Free Trade" was bogus.
Easy to pay the price in other people's lives.
60% of all their export profits ended up in the pockets of New York and Washington DC connected people. If you think increasing their take by 60% is a trivial thing, then you are nuts.
One reason I know you are economically illiterate is that you confuse expenses with "profits".
Money you pay for shipping is not "profit", it's an expense, as are your loan interest payments, storage & insurance -- all expenses, not "profits".
Of course, you may well wish your cousin Charlie owned the shipping line and your nephew Hank sold you insurance, but if those alternatives are more expensive and you chose cheaper services from New York, that's your choice.
Secession will not suddenly make Charlie & Hank the low cost bidders and will not reduce your expenses for those services.
At least not in the real world.
Many did serve.
Just over two million Northerners served, of whom roughly 30% were killed, wounded or missing.
The largest numbers killed came from New York, Ohio, Illinois & Pennsylvania.
The number of eligible Northerners who did not serve is put around 2.5 million.
Most of those worked producing food & war materials for Union armies.
One, young Samuel Clements, hid out in Virginia City, Nevada, where great quantities of silver helped fill Union treasuries.
Corresponding numbers for Confederates are about one million served of whom 45% were killed, wounded or missing.
There were very few eligible Confederates who did not serve.
Millions of slaves produced Confederate food & war materials while hundreds of thousands served Confederate armies setting up camps, building roads & fortifications, driving supply wagons, etc.
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