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The Black Hole information loss problem is unsolved. Because it’s unsolvable.
Backreaction ^ | 18 Nov, 2020 | Sabine Hossenfelder

Posted on 11/19/2020 5:51:14 AM PST by MtnClimber

First of all, what is the black hole information loss problem, or paradox, as it’s sometimes called. It’s an inconsistency in physicists’ currently most fundamental laws of nature, that’s quantum theory and general relativity.

Stephen Hawking showed in the early nineteen-seventies that if you combine these two theories, you find that black holes emit radiation. This radiation is thermal, which means besides the temperature, that determines the average energy of the particles, the radiation is entirely random.

This black hole radiation is now called Hawking Radiation and it carries away mass from the black hole. But the radius of the black hole is proportional to its mass, so if the black hole radiates, it shrinks. And the temperature is inversely proportional to the black hole mass. So, as the black hole shrinks, it gets hotter, and it shrinks even faster. Eventually, it’s completely gone. Physicists refer to this as “black hole evaporation.”

When the black hole has entirely evaporated, all that’s left is this thermal radiation, which only depends on the initial mass, angular momentum, and electric charge of the black hole. This means that besides these three quantities, it does not matter what you formed the black hole from, or what fell in later, the result is the same thermal radiation.

Black hole evaporation, therefore, is irreversible. You cannot tell from the final state – that’s the outcome of the evaporation – what the initial state was that formed the black holes. There are many different initial states that will give the same final state.

The problem is now that this cannot happen in quantum theory. Processes in quantum theory are always time-reversible. There are certainly processes that are in practice irreversible. For example, if you mix dough. You are not going to unmix it, ever. But. According to quantum mechanics, this process is reversible, in principle.


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: astrophysics; quantumtheory; relativity
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1 posted on 11/19/2020 5:51:14 AM PST by MtnClimber
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To: Red Badger; Bodega

I wonder if you can see a black hole with an IR telescope?


2 posted on 11/19/2020 5:51:45 AM PST by MtnClimber (For photos of Colorado scenery and wildlife, click on my screen name for my FR home page.)
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To: MtnClimber

You can only see where it isn’t....................


3 posted on 11/19/2020 5:52:58 AM PST by Red Badger (Democrats cheat. ... It's what they do. ... GUARANTEED! ... Even if it's not necessary!....)
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To: MtnClimber

Hmmm... I think I’ll work on this after lunch...


4 posted on 11/19/2020 5:53:50 AM PST by econjack
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To: MtnClimber

It’s a very interesting concept but not written very well, to be honest.

I guess science is their specialty.

It’s not English grammar.


5 posted on 11/19/2020 5:58:27 AM PST by dp0622 (Tried a coup, a fake tax story, tramp slander, Russia nonsense, impeachment and a virus. They lost.)
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To: MtnClimber

That is correct - it is unsolvable. There is meant to be a gap between horses and giraffes with no bones in between. However the Lord wants us to keep digging and keep asking questions at the same time give him praise for his wonderful creations whereby admiring them even moreso. When you don’t believe in God and you usurped His role and replace it with your own arrogance (i.e.,to those who believe they “outsmarted The god thing”) to fill gaps with hyperbolic theories such as Punctuated Equilibrium. Unfortunately they cannot replace God’s Majesty and remain lost in group think.


6 posted on 11/19/2020 6:02:18 AM PST by CincyRichieRich (Stand Back Quitter Caucus. Go Sit Down. NO SURRENDER! )
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To: MtnClimber

So radiation defies the laws of gravity?


7 posted on 11/19/2020 6:03:05 AM PST by angmo (#joeknew)
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To: dp0622

She is a native German speaker so the english gets a little twisted. I would recommend watching her You Tube descriptions as she uses graphics to make her points. Smart lady.


8 posted on 11/19/2020 6:03:17 AM PST by Shark24 ( )
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To: angmo

No, but thermal radiation coming from black holes apparently defies the laws of quantum mechanics.


9 posted on 11/19/2020 6:08:25 AM PST by coloradan (They're not the mainstream media, they're the gaslight media. It's what they do. )
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To: MtnClimber

I read the headline and thought this was about media burying information unfavorable to dims.


10 posted on 11/19/2020 6:08:52 AM PST by Islander7 (There is no septic system so vile, so filthy, the left won't drink from to further their agenda)
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To: MtnClimber

“You cannot tell from the final state – that’s the outcome of the evaporation – what the initial state was that formed the black holes.”

If the universe isn’t a closed system, this problem might go away. Perhaps the information wasn’t destroyed; it just went elsewhere.


11 posted on 11/19/2020 6:10:21 AM PST by rightwingcrazy (;-,)
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To: rightwingcrazy

“If the universe isn’t a closed system, this problem might go away. Perhaps the information wasn’t destroyed; it just went elsewhere.”

Matter can not be destroyed, it can be converted to energy. Energy can not be destroyed, it can be turned into matter.

The information exit out a white hole (big bang) to another universe. Our universe was created from a black hole in another universe pumping energy and matter into our universe.


12 posted on 11/19/2020 6:21:45 AM PST by DEPcom
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To: MtnClimber

It’s an inconsistency in **physicists’** currently

You’d think they would have proof read this piece, but no. Its an inconstancy in PHYSICS not the physicists would study physics.


13 posted on 11/19/2020 6:22:50 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: angmo

Assuming you are referring to Hawking radiation, the theory as I understand it is this:

In a given space there is a non-zero chance of a particle and its antiparticle springing into existence. In most circumstances these immediately annihilate each other and no creation of mass or loss of energy occurs.

However at the event horizon, the boundary between what fall in and what can escape the black hole, one of those particles may escape while the other falls in. The escaping particles are the source of Hawking Radiation. If the black hole generates these particles at a faster rate than it is absorbing mass then it will slowly evaporate.


14 posted on 11/19/2020 6:37:52 AM PST by Flying Circus (God help us )
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To: Flying Circus

Ah. Thanks. In my limited understanding.


15 posted on 11/19/2020 7:21:03 AM PST by angmo (#joeknew)
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To: coloradan

Maybe something to do with quantum entanglement? If a linked particle falls in, then... um something happens? Ha! Thanks.


16 posted on 11/19/2020 7:23:23 AM PST by angmo (#joeknew)
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To: MtnClimber

Yeah, I get all this, but how do I get my wife to be on time for Church?


17 posted on 11/19/2020 7:23:59 AM PST by super7man (Madam Defarge, knitting, knitting, always knitting.)
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To: Shark24

I love reading about quantum physics though most of it goes over my head. I get a kick out of quantum entanglement.

The idea of every possible outcome happening all the time doesn’t seem very realistic but then what do I know?

I still having trouble understanding quantum computers. Having a one and a zero in a slot.

If I even explained that right


18 posted on 11/19/2020 7:47:09 AM PST by dp0622 (Tried a coup, a fake tax story, tramp slander, Russia nonsense, impeachment and a virus. They lost.)
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To: dp0622
Think of quantum computers as being like a black box with a bank of sensitive gyroscopes purring away inside. Jostle the box, and the gyros fall over. That can at least tell you the direction and strength of the jostle, with the gyros responding based on gravity and their internal settings.

We accept the idea of gravity as an invisible force that tells objects how to behave, even millions of miles apart. Quantum entanglement is the similar, with quantum computers deploying an array of entangled particles arranged so that a jostle the form of a query delivers an answer, using the invisible linkage of quantum entanglement.

The key point is to accept quantum entanglement as real, as real as gravity. And, just like gravity, we can adapt and use quantum entanglement without fully knowing how it works.

19 posted on 11/19/2020 8:22:06 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham

It has been shown to exist so that’s good enough for me :)

It’s exciting in a way not knowing exactly all the answers.


20 posted on 11/19/2020 8:27:00 AM PST by dp0622 (Tried a coup, a fake tax story, tramp slander, Russia nonsense, impeachment and a virus. They lost.)
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