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India’s engineers have thrived in Silicon Valley. So has its caste system.
The Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | October 29, 2020 | Nitasha Tiku

Posted on 11/09/2020 10:24:24 PM PST by nickcarraway

Whenever Benjamin Kaila, a database administrator who immigrated from India to the United States in 1999, applies for a job at a U.S. tech company, he prays that there are no other Indians during the in-person interview. That’s because Kaila is a Dalit, or member of the lowest-ranked castes within India’s system of social hierarchy, formerly referred to as “untouchables.”

Silicon Valley’s diversity issues are well documented: It’s still dominated by white and Asian men, and Black and Latino workers remain underrepresented. But for years, as debates about meritocracy raged on, the tech industry’s reliance on Indian engineers allowed another type of discrimination to fester. And Dalit engineers like Kaila say U.S. employers aren’t equipped to address it.

In more than 100 job interviews for contract work over the last 20 years, Kaila said he got only one job offer when another Indian interviewed him in person. When members of the interview panel have been Indian, Kaila says, he has faced personal questions that seem to be used to suss out whether he’s a member of an upper caste, like most of the Indians working in the tech industry.

"They don't bring up caste, but they can easily identify us," Kaila says, rattling off all of the ways he can be outed as potentially being Dalit, including the fact that he has darker skin.

The legacy of discrimination from the Indian caste system is rarely discussed as a factor in Silicon Valley's persistent diversity problems. Decades of tech industry labor practices, such as recruiting candidates from a small cohort of top schools or relying on the H-1B visa system for highly skilled workers, have shaped the racial demographics of its technical workforce. Despite that fact, Dalit engineers and advocates say that tech companies don't understand caste bias and have not explicitly prohibited caste-based discrimination.

In recent years, however, the Dalit rights movement has grown increasingly global, including advocating for change in corporate America. In June, California's Department of Fair Employment and Housing filed a landmark suit against Cisco and two of its former engineering managers, both upper-caste Indians, for discriminating against a Dalit engineer.

After the lawsuit was announced, Equality Labs, a nonprofit advocacy group for Dalit rights, received complaints about caste bias from nearly 260 U.S. tech workers in three weeks, reported through the group’s website or in emails to individual staffers. Allegations included caste-based slurs and jokes, bullying, discriminatory hiring practices, bias in peer reviews, and sexual harassment, said executive director Thenmozhi Soundararajan. The highest number of claims were from workers at Facebook (33), followed by Cisco (24), Google (20), Microsoft (18), IBM (17), and Amazon (14). The companies all said they don’t tolerate discrimination.

And a group of 30 female Indian engineers who are members of the Dalit caste and work for Google, Apple, Microsoft, Cisco, and other tech companies say they have faced caste bias inside the U.S. tech sector, according to a statement shared exclusively with the Washington Post.

The women, who shared the statement on the condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation, argue that networks of engineers from the dominant castes have replicated the patterns of bias within the United States by favoring their peers in hiring, referrals, and performance reviews.

"We also have had to weather demeaning insults to our background and that we have achieved our jobs solely due to affirmative action. It is exhausting," they wrote. "We are good at our jobs and we are good engineers. We are role models for our community and we want to continue to work in our jobs. But it is unfair for us to continue in hostile workplaces, without protections from caste discrimination."

The tech industry has grown increasingly dependent on Indian workers. According to the State Department, the United States has issued more than 1.7 million H-1B visas since 2009, 65 percent of which have gone to people of Indian nationality. Close to 70% of H-1B visa holders work in the tech industry, up from less than 40% in 2003, says David Bier, an immigration policy analyst at the Cato Institute.

Devesh Kapur, a professor of South Asian studies at Johns Hopkins University, found that in 2003, only 1.5 percent of Indian immigrants in the United States were Dalits or members of the lower-ranked castes.

ADVERTISEMENT The lawsuit, which was initially filed in federal court before being refiled in October in state court in Santa Clara County, where Cisco is headquartered, alleges that Cisco violated the California Fair Employment and Housing Act, which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, religion, national origin, and ancestry.

The immigration status of Dalit workers, including visas and green cards that require being sponsored by their employers, made it difficult for them to speak out against the discrimination they allege, says Soundararajan from Equality Labs, which is conducting a formal survey to follow-up on the claims they received this summer.

"Just like racism, casteism is alive in America and in the tech sector," said Seattle-based Microsoft engineer Raghav Kaushik, who was born into a dominant caste but who has been involved in advocacy work for years. "What is happening at Cisco is not a one-off thing; it's indicative of a much larger phenomenon."

In a statement, Cisco spokesperson Robyn Blum said: "Cisco is committed to an inclusive workplace for all. We have robust processes to report and investigate concerns raised by employees which were followed in this case dating back to 2016, and have determined we were fully in compliance with all laws as well as our own policies. Cisco will vigorously defend itself against the allegations made in this complaint."

Dalit engineers said that most Indian workers from upper castes do not seem aware of their caste privilege and believe caste bias is a thing of the past, despite the fact that high-profile tech CEOs and board members, such as Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella and Amazon board member Indra Nooyi, the former CEO of Pepsi, are Brahmins, or members of the highest caste.

In a statement, Facebook spokesperson Nneka Norville said: "To build services for the whole world, we need a diverse and inclusive workplace. We train managers to understand the issues team members from different backgrounds may face and have courses to help employees counter unconscious bias."

Apple spokesperson Rachel Tulley said: "At Apple, we are dedicated to providing employees with a workplace where they feel safe, respected, and inspired to do their best work. We have strict policies that prohibit any discrimination or harassment, including based on caste, and we provide training for all employees to ensure our policies are upheld."

Google spokesperson Jennifer Rodstrom said: "Our policies prohibit harassment and discrimination in the workplace. We investigate any allegations and take firm action against employees who violate our policies."

Microsoft spokesperson Frank X. Shaw said there are no official complaints of caste bias at Microsoft in the United States. IBM and Amazon declined to comment. (Amazon chief executive Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post.)

Caste is often discovered through questions, not always through appearance. (Although Dalits may have a darker complexion, skin color is not synonymous with caste.) Questions about whether someone is a vegetarian, where they grew up, what religion they practice or who they married may be used as a “caste locator,” seven Indian engineers working in the United States said in interviews with the Post, unrelated to the statement shared by 30 female Indian engineers.

Other tests include patting an Indian man on the back to see whether he is wearing a "sacred thread" worn by some Brahmins, the highest-ranked caste. (This gesture is sometimes referred to as the "Tam-Bram pat," in reference to Tamil-speaking Brahmins.)


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Computers/Internet
KEYWORDS: bidenvoters; caste; dalits; discrimination; employment; hitech; humanresources; india; siliconvalley; technology
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To: nickcarraway

Philadelphia Inquirer? C*** source.


21 posted on 11/09/2020 11:22:15 PM PST by The Truth Will Make You Free
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To: wildcard_redneck

[I did a year-long sales/consulting stint at Microsoft in Redmond and Issaquah in 2005 where I had MS directors and VP’s tell me how great H1B visa workers were for the bottom line and I told them one day they’d be laughing out of the other side of their mouth. Now they all work for a CEO who is a former H-1B employee.]


How is that different from anyone else who gets overtaken by what was once a junior employee? CEO’s aren’t hired by H-1B employees. They are appointed by the BOD. Microsoft’s BOD:

https://news.microsoft.com/leadership/
[John W. Thompson
Board Chair

Reid Hoffman
Partner, Greylock Partners

Hugh Johnston
Vice Chairman and Chief Financial Officer, PepsiCo

Teri List-Stoll
Former Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Gap Inc.

Satya Nadella
Chief Executive Officer

Sandra E. Peterson
Operating Partner, Clayton, Dubilier & Rice

Penny Pritzker
Founder and Chairman, PSP Partners

Charles W. Scharf
CEO and President, Wells Fargo & Company

Arne Sorenson
President and CEO, Marriott International Inc.

John W. Stanton
Chairman, Trilogy Partnerships

Emma Walmsley
CEO, GlaxoSmithKline

Padmasree Warrior
Founder, CEO and President, Fable Group Inc.]

I’m sure Steve Ballmer was a nice enough guy, but the stock did very little during his time there. Whereas it took off like a rocket after Nadella took over. If this is what H-1B’s are like, it’s hard to fault corporate boards for hiring them. Nadella became honcho at a fat and happy company and took it to the next level.


https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/from-sundar-pichai-to-satya-nadella-how-h-1bs-helped-indian-americans-find-work-set-up-family/story-C0Xd70L9z2Z9ktmDtGINpN.html
[Satya Nadella used the visa programme also, but for an entirely different reason. Not to further his career, but his personal life. He gave up his Green Card — yes, he did — and went on H-1B so his wife could join in in the United States. Immigration rules then, as now, make it very difficult for foreigners to join Green Card spouses, without going through a long and uncertain process.

So Nadella gave up his permanent residency and switched to H-1B in 1994, a year after he got married and four years after the new visa programme was introduced for high skilled workers in 1990.

“What I didn’t expect was the instant notoriety around campus,” Nadella wrote in his 2017 memoir “Hit Refresh, “‘’Hey, there goes the guy who gave up his Green card’.”]


22 posted on 11/09/2020 11:25:21 PM PST by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: wildcard_redneck
The company I work for now won't hire H1-Bs because it's too expensive. They do have a some employees who are on H1-B, that they hired as existing H-1Bs from other companies. The first startup I ever worked for as a recruiter banned hiring H1-Bs, because they got burned. A company has to pay $20k in legal fees up front to hire an H1-B. They hired two employees on H1-B, and both of them left within three months, which meant they paid $20k+ for nothing.

The big FANG companies can definitely afford H-1Bs, but a lot of the high tech startups just can't afford it. (For comparison, about 9% of Google's ca. 100k employees are H-1B; Apple has about 3,100 H-1Bs out of 127k employees) Now, do you know anything about L1 Visas? L1 Visas are much better for the company, because it is harder for that employee to jump to another company. (They'd need to get that company to sponsor an entirely new H-1B Visa) L1s are more likely to be paid a lower rate. L1s need to work at the same company overseas for a year, then they can get an L1 Visa to work in the U.S. I have personally come across Microsoft using L1s, but I don't know how many.

23 posted on 11/09/2020 11:26:01 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: thescourged1

“...all you see is a sea of Indians.”

Before a winter storm last year in Redmond, Washington. (Microsoft, etc.).

Got stuck in a HUGE line at Costco behind a young Indian guy. We got to talking. Every cashier lane was open, with perhaps a line of 40 people in each lane.

The Indian was saying how this was what India looks like all the time.

I quipped “In more ways than one!”

He laughed. I’m guessing it was 80% Indians. 18% muslims. 2% white folks.

We had some Indians renting a house next to ours for awhile. Nice enough folks, but the smell of their cooking was terrible. I asked my wife “I suppose when he his driving up from work and he pulls into the driveway he thinks “Oh yum - she’s cooking XYZ for dinner tonight!”


24 posted on 11/09/2020 11:26:02 PM PST by 21twelve (Ever Vigilant. Never Fearful!)
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To: wildcard_redneck
large grocery store to buy Visine and could not find one employee who was willing to speak English, all Asians and Indian.

Can you tell me which grocery store, because I live here and I've never seen that. I've been to a specialty Japanese grocery store, but most of the people spoke English. I also have been so specialty Indian, Persian, Chinese, and European grocery stores. I found people who spoke English, but I suppose it's possible you might not. I supposed you might find a Mexican grocery store too. But I've never seen a non-specialty grocery store that didn't have English speakers. Santa Clara County is about 33% non-Hispanic white, 33% Hispanic, and 33% Asian, with a small amount of other races.

25 posted on 11/09/2020 11:30:55 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: wildcard_redneck

99% foreigners OUT of the UnitedStates. Problem solved.


26 posted on 11/09/2020 11:31:02 PM PST by A strike (FrontTowardEnemy)
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To: nickcarraway

Interesting...Saw this same story in another publication a few weeks ago.


27 posted on 11/09/2020 11:32:10 PM PST by Freedom56v2
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To: wildcard_redneck
You work in tech recruiting and you feel the need to defend in-sourcing of H-1B indentured servants over American graduates.

Show me where I said anything like that.

What country are you from, since you can't read English. Why are you bashing us when English is not your first language?

I clearly stated my current company refuses to hire H-1Bs.

28 posted on 11/09/2020 11:33:57 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Admit it Nick, H-1B, L1 and other work visas are an insult to the America ln people. The influx of corporate indentured servants depress the wages of Americans while at the same time the immigrations these foreign workers and their families causes extra demand on welfare, social services, and schools which raises taxes on Americans while at the same time driving up inflation in real estate/rents and goods & services. It is the worst kind of corporate welfare born on the backs of the American taxpayer.


29 posted on 11/09/2020 11:34:12 PM PST by wildcard_redneck (COVID lockdowns are the EstablishmentÂ’s attack on the middle class and our Republic)
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To: nickcarraway

Ive seen some attitudes between engineers from India that I suspect is due to cast system. Frustrating, because the smartest one on team with best ideas seems to be lower cast then more assertive engineer that is not as skilled.


30 posted on 11/09/2020 11:36:02 PM PST by AndyTheBear
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To: nickcarraway
”What country are you from, since you can't read English?”

I was born and raised in the United States you insufferable %@#! I am the son of a coal miner from Montana who went on your get a masters degree. I read your inane, self-serving posts and called out on your hypocrisy and you respond by insulting me with ad hominem attacks and insinuating that I don’t know how to read English? That is something that only a traitorous scumbag would do.

31 posted on 11/09/2020 11:44:58 PM PST by wildcard_redneck (COVID lockdowns are the EstablishmentÂ’s attack on the middle class and our Republic)
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To: wildcard_redneck
You didn't even know about L1 until I told you.

There's also an O Visa, called the genius Visa. There are an unlimited amount of those, but they have to prove, "extraordinary ability or achievement."

32 posted on 11/09/2020 11:45:49 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: wildcard_redneck
Then how come you can't speak English? I clearly said my company refuses to hire H-1B and you either lied about it, or you don't speak English.

I'm the grandchild of two coal miners from across three states.

33 posted on 11/09/2020 11:49:21 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
”You didn't even know about L1 until I told you. There's also an O Visa, called the genius Visa. There are an unlimited amount of those, but they have to prove, "extraordinary ability or achievement."

What arrogance, of course I knew about the L1 visa as well as the H-2A visa workers and their employers who do not have to pay Social Security (FICA) taxes which further disadvantages Americans from competing. Are you really serious when you claim that with every post I have to list the entire multitudinous list of foreign worker visas to be taken seriously? What a load of crap.

Face it, you are an apologist for the exploitation of foreign workers and the colonization and balkanization of America by the ruling class. You either suffer from cognitive dissonance or you are dishonest.

You are not worth my time because I will never have an argument that will convince you to give up your Judas 30 pieces of silver. Despicable.

34 posted on 11/10/2020 12:02:08 AM PST by wildcard_redneck (COVID lockdowns are the EstablishmentÂ’s attack on the middle class and our Republic)
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To: wildcard_redneck

If you speak English, then how come you don’t understand multiple times, that this company doesn’t even hire H-1Bs. Are you some kind of China PRC blogger?


35 posted on 11/10/2020 12:06:08 AM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
”If you speak English.”

What a crock! Anyone who reads my texts can easily tell that I am an American. You say that your current doesn’t hire H-1B visa workers but you mention nothing about previous employers. You at least had the balls to admit that you are a recruiter and anyone in the IT world knows implicitly that in the tech industry you have placed many foreign H-1B and other foreign worker visa employees in Silicon Valley.

How well do those 30 pieces of Judas silver spend?

36 posted on 11/10/2020 12:17:20 AM PST by wildcard_redneck (COVID lockdowns are the EstablishmentÂ’s attack on the middle class and our Republic)
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To: nickcarraway

Benjamin - not a Hindu name. Do Indian Christians have a caste system too?


37 posted on 11/10/2020 12:29:46 AM PST by IndianChief
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To: nickcarraway
"I think that’s a gross exaggeration"

Not at all.

I know several white males, from programmers to dba's to management (team leaders, personnel managers) who were forced out...."reduction in force"...only to be directly replaced with h1b's from india, mexico and china. Majority from india.

DXC Technology.

Many of those white males going back years with the same predecessor co's (HPE, previously HP, previously EDS).

Yes, discrimination against white males in the IT field is increasingly prevalent.

It's as real as it gets.

38 posted on 11/10/2020 1:02:03 AM PST by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: nickcarraway

I have. In the late 80s early 90s i worked for an indian owned 8a in DC area. Caste system was definitely alive and well. So were labor abuses of the poor indian young people they would bring over each year. Problem is this company thrived and became major player in flooding area with cheap labor. Worked in major defense company and my group had 60% labor from india, Bangladesh, pakistan.
I saw evidence of castes plus these folks bring their work cultures and discrimination with them. I had many indian friends but it is not right. They were kept and americans fired when we lost contract. They basically forced fired employees to work as a temp for indian temp companies.


39 posted on 11/10/2020 1:07:35 AM PST by applpie
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To: Gene Eric

Thats funny you say that. I finished my degree as an adult at a primarily black college in Dc Area. Black students would say racist kinds of things sometimes but would especially point out when i was too active in participating in class- like asking questions, talking to professor. I was told not to do that.


40 posted on 11/10/2020 1:14:43 AM PST by applpie
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