Posted on 04/07/2020 4:55:52 AM PDT by Sarcasm Factory
At the risk of upsetting a few folks, someone who appears to be in the know has tossed a small bucket of cold water on the notorious hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin drug cocktail:
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First up is this study from France. It’s another very small one, and all the usual warnings apply because of that. It’s from a team at the University of Paris and Saint-Louis Hospital there, and they evaluated 11 consecutive patients admitted there with the same course of treatment as the Marseilles group first reported (hydroxychloroquine 600mg/day and azithromycin, 500mg the first day and 250 mg/day thereafter). The mean age of their patients was 58.7 years, and (notably) 8 of the 11 had significant comorbidities (two obese, 5 with various forms of cancer, one with HIV). That’s a tough population, and unfortunately, the HCQ/AZ combination did nothing. One patient died (and two others went on to the ICU) and of the ten remaining, 8 were still positive for the virus by nasal swab on days 5/6 after treatment. One patient had to discontinue therapy on day 4 because of QT prolongation, a known side effect of hydroxychloroquine that can lead to fatal heart arrhythmia.
So while this is a small study and not a perfect match, it provides no evidence to show that the HCQ/AZ combination had any benefit at all. While we’re on the subject of QT prolongation, there’s this preprint from a medical team at NYU that was also treating patients with the same combination of drugs. In 84 patients, they found notable QT prolongation in about 30% of them, and another 11% were to a level (>500 milliseconds) that put them at a high risk for arrhythmia. This group’s mean age was 63, 74% male. No cancer patients in this group, but 65% did have hypertension and 20% were diabetic (which from many reports is actually a reasonable look at the patients most likely to progress to severe disease). The strongest predictor of dangerous QT numbers was the development of renal trouble while on the drug combination.
There are a couple of other things that need to be noted. One is that hydroxychloroquine itself actually lowers the activity of the innate immune system; that’s why people take it for lupus and for rheumatoid arthritis. Many people are saying that perhaps it will work best if taken early in the course of infection, but this effect (which is mediated through TLR receptors) should be kept in mind. Another potentially important point is raised in this preprint – which, it has to be said, is not human data but mouse toxicology. But with that in mind, the authors report what looks like a bad interaction in that species between HCQ and metformin. And by “bad”, I mean about 30% mortality. If this translates at all to humans, it could be bad news, because (as mentioned above) diabetics look like a high-risk group and many patients may well have been taking metformin when they present at the hospital. We need more information on this. An investigational drug combination that showed this effect in mice would not move forward in the normal course of things.
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This cocktail cant cure the years of poor health, bad diet, drugs, alcohol, medication abuse and underlying medical conditions. This is not the unicorn in the room. Your immune system is key and needs to be somewhat healthy to start.
Wow, hubby takes Metformin.
Thanks for posting.
Zinc deficiency characterized by low plasma zinc levels over time enhances HIV-associated disease progression, and low dietary zinc intake is an independent predictor of mortality in HIV-infected drug users.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12942385/
Funny they didn’t mention that HCQ can REPLACE metformin. Also, I’m sure such a contraindicator has already been considered.
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jdr/2020/5214751/
It’s the zinc that destroys the virus after the HCQ breaks down the membrane. Zinc is an antiviral, which is why it’s in cold and flu remedies.
I’m not interested in any “study” that has a sample of 11 !!!
“evaluated 11 consecutive patients”
It’s statistically meaningless.
Funny they didn’t mention that HCQ can REPLACE metformin. Also, I’m sure such a contraindicator has already been considered.
https://hindawi.com/journals/jdr/2020/5214751/
ClearCase_guy wrote:
“This seems like a very small, very flawed study, in which very sick people were given less than the recommended regimen, and then failed to miraculously get better.
Is this how they do science?”
And no zinc was used.
Where is the Zinc? AZ has minor antiviral effects, but only minor. It is there merely to prevent opportunistic infections. The HQ does nothing but open a pathway into the cell for zinc and has some minor anti-inflammatory effects. Zinc interferes with the reverse transcriptase enzyme the virus uses to duplicate itself. No Zinc, no real benefit. Zinc does not like to go into cells. HQ lets it go in easily.
Already posted and largely ignored for the following reasons:
1. Used a much smaller test group than either of the 1st 2 French studies and then significantly biased this small group with almost worst case underlying conditions:
“There were 7 men and 4 women with a mean age of 58.7 years (range: 20-77), 8 had significant comorbidities associated with poor outcomes (obesity: 2; solid cancer: 3; hematological cancer: 2; HIV-infection: 1)”
2. An actual practical real world confirmation of the 1st 2 French studies can be monitored at the below link. Here, 2191 patients (all with some level of underlying conditions but certainly not the most morbid) treated with the HCQ+AZ treatment to date show a mere .4% mortality rate - an order magnitude less than the standard hospital treatment.
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/covid-19/
Maybe... but THAT’s the kind of maybe that years of testing can look into.
2. An actual practical real world confirmation of the 1st 2 French studies can be monitored at the below link. Here, 2191 patients (all with some level of underlying conditions but certainly not the most morbid) treated with the HCQ+AZ treatment to date show a mere .4% mortality rate - an order magnitude less than the standard hospital treatment.
It is a known fact that anyone with a badly compromised or weakened immune system will likely die from Covid-19 and I think that was its purpose when it was engineered.
Exactly! Expect studies like this in the coming weeks using HCQ only, without Zinc, and we get results and headlines like this.
Big Pharma and their front man Dr “Fauxi” want big dollar solutions.
Indeed. I’m certain your doctor is heart broken.
“There are a couple of other things that need to be noted. One is that hydroxychloroquine itself actually lowers the activity of the innate immune system”
Since we’re using anecdote here, let’s look at the Princess cruise ship pt who had the virus and recovered. This patient was a renal transplant patient who as with all transplant patients was on immunosuppressors to prevent rejection.
Maybe we should say that immunosuppression early on might work with chloroquine to combat the virus.
See what happens when you get into anecdotal incidents.
Have not seen any peer reviewed studies with just HCQ and Zinc. Only HCQ and Azithromycin and HCQ by itself.
If there are published studies of HCQ and just Zinc, please post link.
Probably 20 liters a day of tonic water : )
We have been using Elderberry syrup for a month and a half and immune support tincture. I bought a large box of both and some other tinctures from a woman in Missouri. She makes a virus buster package of multiple tinctures, very knowledgeable person on health matters. I also bought last I could find of raw Elderberries, simple to make syrup.
50 mg Zinc daily (I bought a 25 kg bag of Zinc Sulfate a few years ago, only needed a 100 grams but prices were crazy high then a company I contact wanted to get rid of their 25 kg bags and practically gave it to me with free shipping ... should have bought all 9 bags considering prices now : )
Been using D3 5000iu daily for years, now whole family is.
1000mg Acerola Cherry Vit C daily. Bought last of Camu Camu powder 226 g before it all disappeared to make high strength Vit C (haven't yet).
And Remag magnesium.
We are set for long haul. Wish I could have gotten Liposomal Vit C before it all disappeared but Acerola Cherry Capsules and Camu is as good just have to take more.
Btw I got lots of tonic water lol
I will look into the Quercetin, what is your thinking on it in regard to this virus?
“but 65% did have hypertension and 20% were diabetic (which from many reports is actually a reasonable look at the patients most likely to progress to severe disease). The strongest predictor of dangerous QT numbers was the development of renal trouble while on the drug combination.”
These caveats are not totally unknown to doctors already. They are part of already known cautions to the use of Hydroxychloroquine that doctors concern themselves with when (1) determining which drugs to use, and (2) monitoring the patient during the administration of the drug.
The criticism is DESIGNED to pretend the doctors would never see that some patient, due to their medical history, should either not be given the drug and/or monitored very closely. The criticism thinks the doctors are all idiots and will give a patient a drug “just to satisfy Trump”.
It is the media that has all the idiots.
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