Posted on 03/16/2020 7:32:15 AM PDT by daniel1212
The goal behind long-term shutdowns and quarantines is to preserve health and ultimately to save lives, but how extensive will the cost be to the economy? Will that effect itself cost lives, as well as foster permanent loss of personal freedom? Months from now how do you think all the actions o Covid-19 be judged?
What will or should we learn from this? How will this change society? Will this be an annual recourse to the next incarnation of a highly communicable infection?
Being part of crowded gatherings puts people involved in danger when a highly communicable disease is a proven threat, and while not disputing the need for temporary shutdowns of such and quarantines of the infected (provided they get fresh air and sun and nutrition - and restful sleep) if they are at the stage they can infect others, yet where is the rational discussion in terms of cost/benefits? To what degree might we say the US over or under reacted?
How can liberals use this crisis to attack Trump even more, and advocate for universal health care, and increased government control? How will this foster the latter?
How will liberals use the rationale behind shutdowns and quarantines to furthers its agenda such as under the premise of preventing Climate Change?
For perspective, consider that driving puts one in danger, with approx. 90 deaths a day. Driving is justified in the light of the ratio of vehicles to fatalities and the benefits provided by it, esp. the economy.
But liberals will exclaim how much the reduction in driving and activity has reduced carbon emissions, and argue that as with Covid-19, great restrictions are necessary to combat the dire threat of Climate Change.
However, the ratio of deaths by Covid-19 in the US is also very small (so far): 69 as of 8AM, Mon, 03/16/20. out a pop. of 333 million, and almost all these deaths are among the elderly, while the long term shutdown of business and activities will likely have profound negative long-term effects on the economy and society.
Dare I ask if shutting down all schools is necessary? Restricting any outside gatherings of over 50 people? What if this continues for months? Do we need to treat this as the Spanish flu? Should the extra-long 2017-2018 flu season - in which up to 169 Americans died per day in one 4-week period, and about 80,000 total and sickened the young as well - seen something like the reaction to Convid-19?
Would it help to see other deaths in perspective? About 7,196 Americans die every day in the US from a wide range of causes, both natural and unnatural. (https://www.weisspaarz.com/leading-causes-death-by-state/)
Number of deaths in the United States for just today so far: 3,212 as of 10:20:53 AM Mon, 03/16/20 (https://www.indexmundi.com/clocks/indicator/deaths/united-states)
More than 2600 Americans die every day of cardiovascular disease. ("Hidden," Jones & Bartlett Publishers)
Doctors blamed heart disease for 647,457 deaths in 2017 — more than four times the number of deaths caused by the next most common cause, chronic lower respiratory diseases. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/60/)
274 people die every day from blood clots, according to the National Blood Clot Alliance. (https://health.usnews.com/conditions/articles/what-are-the-warning-signs-of-a-blood-clot)
In 2017, 83,564 people died from complications related to diabetes. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/55/) It is frequently stated in scientific and lay literature that obesity causes about 300 000 deaths per year in the United States...it may difficult to develop accurate and precise estimates. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448478/) Obese people account for 37 percent of the United States’ population, but obesity-related diseases and health problems account for 61 percent of healthcare costs in the United States every year (“The Economics of Overweight and Obesity,” 2007).
500 people with diabetes die prematurely every week. (https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/premature-deaths-diabetes) Diabetes can cause heart disease, kidney failure, and blindness, and costs the US health care system and employers $237 billion every year. (https://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/about/costs/index.htm)
Over 80,000 Americans Died of Flu in 2018... 90 percent of those deaths were in people over age 65 (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/health/flu-deaths-vaccine.html) A four-week stretch saw the flu kill older Americans at a rate of 169 people a day, or seven people per hour. (https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2018/older-flu-deaths-rising.html)
CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010. (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html)
Accidental poisoning accounted for 64,795 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/54/)
In 2017, 6,118 people died from inflammation of the colon and small intestine caused by infection with the Clostridium difficile, or C. diff, bacteria, which is often resistant to antibiotics. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/47)
1,500 die every day from cancer ... Cancer remains the second-leading cause of death in the U.S., behind heart disease. (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/report-1500-die-every-day-from-cancer/),
91 people on average die every day from opioid overdoses (https://247wallst.com/special-report/2017/08/21/how-drug-overdose-is-a-leading-cause-of-death-among-young-people/2/)
Breast cancer claimed 42,510 lives in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/49/)
About 90 people die each day in the US from crashes (https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/motor-vehicle-safety/index.html) According to CDC statistics, there were 40,231 deaths caused by motor vehicle accidents in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/47/)
(Doctors blamed sepsis in the blood — also known as septicemia — for 40,922 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/48/)
HIV was listed as the cause of death for 5,698 Americans in 2017 (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/14/)
Doctors blamed Parkinson's disease for 31,963 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/43/)
Doctors blamed alcohol-related liver diseases for 22,246 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/38/)
According to CDC statistics, 23,854 people died of suicide by gunshot in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/40/)
Each day, ten Americans die from asthma, and in 2017, 3,564 people died from it. (https://www.aafa.org/asthma-facts/)
Yes, its so deadly and contagious that in the two months it has been spreading around the country its killed almost 70 old and sick people! /s Wake up! It is either not very contagious or not very deadly! Once you get outside of Wuhan China and a few other places where 6 people share a 600 sq. ft. apartment and they share bathrooms and kitchens with 40 other people from other apartments... this thing somehow isn't that contagious or deadly.
And votes. In any case, as we speak, liberalism is engaging in talks on how to use this crisis to further their agenda.
I was aware of that, but included them as part of the general perspective about death, while also including car accidents (a consequence of choice) and flue deaths.
When 169 Americans died per day in one 4-week period of the flu then we say nothing close to the reaction we see to a virus that overall is terminal to the aged with other health issues.
And it is even said that ,
Millions of Britons will need to contract coronavirus in order to control the impact of the disease which is likely to return "year on year", the government's chief scientific adviser has told Sky News. Around 60% of the UK population will need to become infected with coronavirus in order for society to have "herd immunity" from future outbreaks, Sir Patrick Vallance said. Herd immunity is the resistance to a contagious disease within a population because enough people have become immune, and so it is harder for it to spread.
the medical system can suddenly become overwhelmed to a point that you have to start doing triage operations as is the case in Italy, leading to more panic and restrictions.
Italy is #4 among 230 countries in terms of oldest average age, and Holds the Largest Chinese Diaspora Community in the EU Today
Will the shut down of our economy, in fact our entire way of life, continue until no one is dying from this new corona virus? Many (most?) of the people dying from corona virus may have died anyway if they had gotten the regular seasonal flu. People get the flu vaccine but has there been a year when the vaccine was declared to be the right one for the flu that did come?
Nonsense. Healthy people under 60 aren't at risk. Younger adults and children are more at risk of the seasonal flu.
There is no proof that this is any worse than Swine flu. Something bigger is going on here and its pretty scary.
Look who’s really panicking and hysterical.
“this thing somehow isn’t that contagious or deadly.”
That’s the part that’s still an unknown. I certainly hope that turns out to be the case.
But as long as people perceive it to be dangerous, you will get the reaction we’re seeing, and there no doubt that a good deal of that perception is being driven by the propaganda organs.
Until there is clear evidence that it is no worse than the regular flu, or a vaccine, people will continue reacting as they have been, and politicians will exploit it (and even exacerbate it) for their own interests.
No. The flu vaccine is a guess.
For antigen shifting viruses (like this one) any vaccine is a roadblock at best.
People hoping that a vaccine can “stop” this either don’t understand vaccines or this type of virus. Stuff like measles don’t change (mutate) enough over time, so the vaccines are more effective.
As a coronavirus reproduces it does a crappy job. Most of the replicants are mutated to the point that they cannot adhere to the host. Even those that do, often have changes that change the way they work.
Virus are nasty, stupid, and inefficient killers.
I will be the first to admit I don’t have a crystal ball with which to play your game.
And those that reported the new daily deaths are not increasing. For this to be the pandemic the media is saying new deaths have to be increasing exponentially.
They reported that the USA has 70 deaths so far but as you said the yearly flu has had up to 80,000 U.S. deaths in 2018. 4000 U.S deaths a week in that flu for 2018 during February 2018.
There is no threat from any virus. It would take orders of magnitude growth to even reach the levels of a regular flu season. But the new daily deaths are going down all over the world anyway. The media just reports the total deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
In my opinion the news media is destroying the economy to win the election against Trump. Democrat governors are closing restaurants, bars, gatherings, curfews and that also will destroy the economy.
People believe the news media, even some on here. They are allowing the media to shut down too many businesses and lock them inside with curfews etc.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Looking at all the countries it seems the reported cases and new deaths in the USA seem to be one of the highest. In countries like S.korea China the deaths are going down. hmmmm
Also democrat governors and democrat government bureaucrats have taken the directive from the media: use corona virus to increase mass hysteria which will shut down the economy and then that will get Trump. The Goal of the news media has been from day 1 that Trump announced is get Trump.
This virus won't even be mentioned after the election.
The news for 3 years was Russia Russia Russia . What happened to Russia? What happened to Zika, global warming, ebola , sars, swine flu, bird flu,west nile virus the hole in the ozone layer, peak oil?
But of course the media is hyping this corona virus a trillion times more than they did the previous "threats" and some of here know why.
Indeed look. Trying to have a rational discussion amidst hysteria, including by pointing out deaths by others causes and the flu, is hardly panicking and hysterical. At 67 I try to get out and play sports most every day, at least when the temp gets up to 50, thank God.
You should not need some crystal ball if you are a regular here, and can surmise how the Left will use this, as well as see that some reactions were extreme.
Perhaps they are using their "panic" as a means to expand their power.
Some simply focus on the daily stats while not seeing another operation at work.
Price of gas has been drifting down here. Down about 20 cents a gallon in the past couple weeks. We’ve seen panic buying in stores as has been seen elsewhere.
“When 169 Americans died per day in one 4-week period of the flu then we say nothing close to the reaction we see to a virus that overall is terminal to the aged with other health issues.”
The reason is simple. Currently C19 is PERCEIVED to be much more deadly than the normal flu, like at least 10 times more. I understand that since we don’t know the actual number of cases, that death rate is most likely overstated. But humans being what they are, will err on the side of caution until better info is available. So that perception could easily change over the next few weeks.
“Millions of Britons will need to contract coronavirus in order to control the impact of the disease which is likely to return “year on year”, the government’s chief scientific adviser has told Sky News. “
That’s simply a statement of a way to beat a particularly virulent flu.
As far as I know there’s only three ways to beat that type of flu.
1. A vaccine
2. Isolation and containment to a small restricted population until it is eradicated in that population. This is what’s being tried now, but it’s going to be tough to do it this way.
3. The whole population becomes infected and those with immunity survive and reproduce and those without die. This is the option presented in that SKY news article.
There’s also a combination of the three above. Can you think of any other way to beat a contagious and deadly virus?
“Italy holds the Largest Chinese Diaspora Community in the EU Today”
That’s a ridiculous red herring. The US and especially Canada have a far greater Chinese immigrant population than Italy, both in absolute terms and per capita.
I only see panic and hysteria from those who are complaining about quarantines and restrictions against crowds.
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