Posted on 03/16/2020 7:32:15 AM PDT by daniel1212
The goal behind long-term shutdowns and quarantines is to preserve health and ultimately to save lives, but how extensive will the cost be to the economy? Will that effect itself cost lives, as well as foster permanent loss of personal freedom? Months from now how do you think all the actions o Covid-19 be judged?
What will or should we learn from this? How will this change society? Will this be an annual recourse to the next incarnation of a highly communicable infection?
Being part of crowded gatherings puts people involved in danger when a highly communicable disease is a proven threat, and while not disputing the need for temporary shutdowns of such and quarantines of the infected (provided they get fresh air and sun and nutrition - and restful sleep) if they are at the stage they can infect others, yet where is the rational discussion in terms of cost/benefits? To what degree might we say the US over or under reacted?
How can liberals use this crisis to attack Trump even more, and advocate for universal health care, and increased government control? How will this foster the latter?
How will liberals use the rationale behind shutdowns and quarantines to furthers its agenda such as under the premise of preventing Climate Change?
For perspective, consider that driving puts one in danger, with approx. 90 deaths a day. Driving is justified in the light of the ratio of vehicles to fatalities and the benefits provided by it, esp. the economy.
But liberals will exclaim how much the reduction in driving and activity has reduced carbon emissions, and argue that as with Covid-19, great restrictions are necessary to combat the dire threat of Climate Change.
However, the ratio of deaths by Covid-19 in the US is also very small (so far): 69 as of 8AM, Mon, 03/16/20. out a pop. of 333 million, and almost all these deaths are among the elderly, while the long term shutdown of business and activities will likely have profound negative long-term effects on the economy and society.
Dare I ask if shutting down all schools is necessary? Restricting any outside gatherings of over 50 people? What if this continues for months? Do we need to treat this as the Spanish flu? Should the extra-long 2017-2018 flu season - in which up to 169 Americans died per day in one 4-week period, and about 80,000 total and sickened the young as well - seen something like the reaction to Convid-19?
Would it help to see other deaths in perspective? About 7,196 Americans die every day in the US from a wide range of causes, both natural and unnatural. (https://www.weisspaarz.com/leading-causes-death-by-state/)
Number of deaths in the United States for just today so far: 3,212 as of 10:20:53 AM Mon, 03/16/20 (https://www.indexmundi.com/clocks/indicator/deaths/united-states)
More than 2600 Americans die every day of cardiovascular disease. ("Hidden," Jones & Bartlett Publishers)
Doctors blamed heart disease for 647,457 deaths in 2017 — more than four times the number of deaths caused by the next most common cause, chronic lower respiratory diseases. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/60/)
274 people die every day from blood clots, according to the National Blood Clot Alliance. (https://health.usnews.com/conditions/articles/what-are-the-warning-signs-of-a-blood-clot)
In 2017, 83,564 people died from complications related to diabetes. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/55/) It is frequently stated in scientific and lay literature that obesity causes about 300 000 deaths per year in the United States...it may difficult to develop accurate and precise estimates. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448478/) Obese people account for 37 percent of the United States’ population, but obesity-related diseases and health problems account for 61 percent of healthcare costs in the United States every year (“The Economics of Overweight and Obesity,” 2007).
500 people with diabetes die prematurely every week. (https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/premature-deaths-diabetes) Diabetes can cause heart disease, kidney failure, and blindness, and costs the US health care system and employers $237 billion every year. (https://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/about/costs/index.htm)
Over 80,000 Americans Died of Flu in 2018... 90 percent of those deaths were in people over age 65 (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/health/flu-deaths-vaccine.html) A four-week stretch saw the flu kill older Americans at a rate of 169 people a day, or seven people per hour. (https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2018/older-flu-deaths-rising.html)
CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010. (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html)
Accidental poisoning accounted for 64,795 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/54/)
In 2017, 6,118 people died from inflammation of the colon and small intestine caused by infection with the Clostridium difficile, or C. diff, bacteria, which is often resistant to antibiotics. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/47)
1,500 die every day from cancer ... Cancer remains the second-leading cause of death in the U.S., behind heart disease. (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/report-1500-die-every-day-from-cancer/),
91 people on average die every day from opioid overdoses (https://247wallst.com/special-report/2017/08/21/how-drug-overdose-is-a-leading-cause-of-death-among-young-people/2/)
Breast cancer claimed 42,510 lives in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/49/)
About 90 people die each day in the US from crashes (https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/motor-vehicle-safety/index.html) According to CDC statistics, there were 40,231 deaths caused by motor vehicle accidents in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/47/)
(Doctors blamed sepsis in the blood — also known as septicemia — for 40,922 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/48/)
HIV was listed as the cause of death for 5,698 Americans in 2017 (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/14/)
Doctors blamed Parkinson's disease for 31,963 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/43/)
Doctors blamed alcohol-related liver diseases for 22,246 deaths in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/38/)
According to CDC statistics, 23,854 people died of suicide by gunshot in 2017. (https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-index-top-50-ways-americans-die/40/)
Each day, ten Americans die from asthma, and in 2017, 3,564 people died from it. (https://www.aafa.org/asthma-facts/)
And what about fear of death, and preparation for eternity?
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (Acts 3:19)
As soon as word leaks out about how the elites skirt these bans, the SWHTF.
In the very least, for the near future, Mankind is going to go from being a social creature to an anti social creature.
Imagine this thing becoming bad enough that anyone is terrified to be around everyone. Imagine how that could change life as we know it if it does not revert back.
Civil unrest will be the catalyst.
Controlling the food supply will provide the spark.
Here comes the cashless society. Bills carry germs. Much easier to just have a mark in your hand.
These are excellent discussions to have. Unfortunately since we’re stuck in a hysteria, we won’t be able to have such discussions right now.
And yes, people such as Rahm Emmanuel are not going to let this crisis go to waste. If Democrats win the White House and increase numbers in Congress in November, Rahm and his ilk will pass laws on socialized medicine and God knows what else.
How successful will the mitigation efforts of individuals who do self quarantine? We decided to bunker down on Friday. So far my wife has found a reason she “had to go out” every day.
We may heading toward curfews because I predict it will soon be “discovered” that not enough people are staying at home.
We will become comfortable with extreme impingement on our liberties - after all, it’s “for our own good.” Some impingements will permanently stick as being universally “prudent.” I can see laws requiring businesses to sell only a couple of anything in stock per person as one example, followed by vague laws that state the people “can’t sell at an outrageous profit” any good in high demand. We will never be told an objective measure of what “outrageous profit” is because subjectiveness benefits all of those in charge.
My wife and I are glad for the life we’ve had and look forward to many more years, but we are very grateful to God for allowing us to know Him and to experience life.
The governments, local, state and federal seem to be in panic mode, worse than the populace.
They institute more actions and if nothing improves dramatically in 24 hours, they panic more and double down. This is having a very ugly snowball effect.
While the seriousness of this should not be understated, at this point the increasing panic of public officials is liable to cause this to become a complete disaster and possibly a SHTF scenario. I fear the government.
Worldwide population: 7 billion
Number of worldwide deaths:6,705
7 billion seconds = 221 years
6,705 seconds = 111 minutes
They’ll drag Sam Donaldson out with all the body bags..s/
The difference between those causes of death you mention (cancer, heart attack, diabetes, etc) and covid19 is that this virus is highly infectious and deadly.
The fact that someone has cancer or high BP doesn’t scare other people to be around them, C19 does and hence the reaction you see.
On top of that with the quickly increase in number, the medical system can suddenly become overwhelmed to a point that you have to start doing triage operations as is the case in Italy, leading to more panic and restrictions.
I have had a theory / belief for a few years that the goal was to force as many people into cities as possible for ease of control. Obama made few repairs to interstates, inconvenience them, they will move. This whole boondoggle is about control of masses. Power shutdown, utilities shutdown, the lemmings will whimper and comply. Seattle mayor housing the homeless at SeaTac, dense population, easy to control. Of course the cost of cleaning up SeaTac afterwards, assuming they can remove the homeless will be monumental. The lemmings in the blue states are going receive a true dose of the Socialist “Haves and Have Nots”. What better way to install the U.N. agenda of control.
Gunner
I am quite sure, ChildOfThe60s, that you can surmise how radicals would seek draconian measures to stop the dire consequences of Climate Change.
But at least for now they want to save the lives of the most vulnerable - if outside the womb - and are not opposing border control much. Its quarantine, not open borders.
Hardly. Although sodomy (by about 4% of the pop.) is the means of HIV transmission in over 80% of cases among men, yet is it is promoted as a right, and Medicaid enrollees can get funding for prevention as practitioners and treatment for it.
We will become comfortable with extreme impingement on our liberties - after all, it’s “for our own good.”
That is a real danger.
Martial law is already a option.
Well, it is normally actually not best to only stay enclosed!
We’re walking the dog every couple hours. He’s old and makes mistakes occasionally. I think he has dog dementia.
Indeed. I expected some posts to show up scolding me for even daring to discuss some these questions. How are things in San Diego? Price of gas gone down yet? I am up here in MA. .
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