Posted on 05/29/2019 12:37:41 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
May 27, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — Speaking with one of the best-known conservative Jews, Dennis Prager, at the PragerU summit last week, world-famous psychologist Jordan Peterson spoke of God and his views of faith. After speaking about his dislike for the question ‘Do you believe in God?’ Peterson said, “I think that Catholicism — that's as sane as people can get.”
Peterson has often been asked about his faith, if he believes in God, and he said the question has always troubled him. He promised a podcast on the matter since he has given his dislike for the question much thought.
He explained, “Who would have the audacity to claim that they believed in God if they examined the way they lived? Who would dare say that?”
“To believe, in a Christian sense,” he added, “means that you live it out fully and that's an that's an unbearable task in some sense.”
Then in one long drawn-out, rapid-fire thought, the type that has enthralled his millions of fans, he laid out extemporaneously the vision of a believer in God:
“To be able to accept the structure of existence, the suffering that goes along with it and the disappointment and the betrayal, and to nonetheless act properly; to aim at the good with all your heart; to dispense with the malevolence and your desire for destruction and revenge and all of that; and to face things courageously and to tell the truth to speak the truth and to act it out, that's what it means to believe -- that's what it means -- it doesn't mean to state it, it means to act it out. And, unless you act it out you should be very careful about claiming it. And so, I've never been comfortable saying anything other than I try to act as if God exists because God only knows what you'd be if you truly believed.”
See the full exchange of Peterson and Prager here.
On the contrary, Sacraments are invitations to become ever closer to Christ. To live in Him, to experience Him living in us.
That's why He said, for instance,
" Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you.
Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink."
We've discussed this before, and there's no need for you to repeat your arguments to the contrary: I can find them on Google,or enter your username on the FR search function.
Perhaps you don't think that is actually real or true: but otherwise, it's hard to explain why He said it. When He was challenged on it in John 6, He kept repeating it with all the greater vehemence. People walked away, and He just said it again.
Realism: the flesh (OUR own carnal meat-headedness) avails nothing in explaining this. HIS flesh avails everything.
YogicCowboy, if you can read Chesterton and Lewis, I recommend to you Etienne Gilson, and Frederick Wilhelmsen. Etienne Gilson, Reason and Revelation in the Middle Ages, and The Unity of Philosophical Experience.
Frederick Wilhelmsen, Christianity and Political Philosophy, and Hilaire Belloc, No Alienated Man.
Of course, nothing the real hardbacks.
nothing like
This is why I would ask that you refrain from making pronouncements about what "I" believe. I have corrected you in the past, but you don't receive the correction: which means you don't think I actually believe what I say I beliee as a Cargholic. I never write about "what metmom believes" or what "metmom's Christian group," whatever it may be, believes. Better for you to cover that: you're the expert.
It is so much more valuable for you to simply state your convictions, rather than to mis-state mine.
Hey, if you're gonna post your position, expect a counter post.
Perhaps you don't think that is actually real or true: but otherwise, it's hard to explain why He said it. When He was challenged on it in John 6, He kept repeating it with all the greater vehemence. People walked away, and He just said it again.
They walked away but not for the reason you state.
John 6:60-69 for context.60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble? 62“What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?
63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
********
This is what upset the disciples and the others and caused them to walk away. Notice the charge levied against them.
*********************************
64“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
******************
What is the this that caused them to walk away? The charge of unbelief and His statement that no one can come to Him unless it has been granted from the Father.
***************
********
Now, what does Jesus ask the twelve and what is their reply?
67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
69“We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.”
Their reply is key. They did not reply they had eaten/drunk His flesh and blood.
But, they replied they have believed. Which if you go back to the beginning of the exchange between Jesus and the unbelieving Jews what did He tell them?
35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.
37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” JN 6:35-40 NASB
This is the clear consistent teaching John records at least 70+ times in his gospel....believe in Jesus. Not eating/drinking flesh and blood...but believing in Him.
Additionally there is the promise of eternal security in v37. He will not cast us out.
The Greek negation of this part is οὐ μὴ ἐκβάλω.
A literal translation is οὐ (no) μὴ (not) ἐκβάλωno (shall I cast). Using οὐ μὴ is the strongest way to negate in the Greek. When this is combined with an aorist subjunctive verb, in this case ἐκβάλω, it is an absolute and unequivocal denial of the event ever happening.
How secure is the believer?
We have this promise from Jesus in v37. Further, when a person professes faith in Christ, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30).
There is no other way to understand these passages but to say that a believer is always saved because of Christ. He will not go back on His promises.
“These are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”
QED.
You know, using the actual definition of sola scriptura and not the foul lie that is spread by Roman Catholicism about what it means.
Stop believing in strawmen. It makes you look gullible.
The Truth is unbearable but
for the Lord, dare we carry it.
7
The One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus
, that built Christendom(western civilization.)
The Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
+10 One God
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
+10 Christ Jesus
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
+ 1 Consubstantial with the Father
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
+ 1 For our salvation
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
+ 1 Virgin Birth
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
+10 Suffered, Died and Rose
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
+ 1 Ascended, Seated
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
+10 Come Again in Glory to Judge
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
+10 Holy Trinity
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
+10 One Visible Church
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
+ 1 One Baptism
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.
+10 Resurrection of the Dead
The Ten Commandments:
1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God
and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not murder.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10.You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.
+10 The Ten Commandments
The Greatest Commandment
1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy
whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength
2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
+ 2 The Greatest Commnadments
The Seven Sacraments Catholic Church:
1. Baptism.
2. Eucharist.
3. Confirmation.
4. Reconciliation.
5. Anointing of the sick.
6. Marriage.(XY+XX, Till death do us part)
7. Holy orders.
+ 7 The Seven Sacraments
The Precepts of the Catholic Church:
1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation
and rest from servile labor.
2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year.
3. You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the
Easter season.
4. You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by
the Church.
5. You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church.
+ 5 The Precepts
The seven chief corporal works of mercy:
1. To feed the hungry.
2. To give drink to the thirsty.
3. To clothe the naked.
4. To visit the imprisoned.
5. To shelter the homeless.
6. To visit the sick.
7. To bury the dead.
+ 7 Corporal Works
The seven chief spiritual works of mercy:
1. To admonish the sinner.
2. To instruct the ignorant.
3. To counsel the doubtful.
4. To comfort the sorrowful.
5. To bear wrongs patiently.
6. To forgive all injuries.
7. To pray for the living and the dead.
+ 7 Spiritual Works
Pro-Life - From Conception Until Natural Death
+15 Pro-Life
7
Here's the real scorecard.
Do you have faith in Jesus that He will save you?
0% or 100%.
You know far to much to
engage in such childishness.
Don’t you have anything of
real substance to offer?
7
And what do you bring?
A made up scorecard.
Are you serious?
More childishness.
There are centuries of
Catholic exegetical breakdowns of Scripture
that directly contradict your delusions.
7
Well, no.The Church and it's "magisterial teachings" have been proven to be irrelevant.
Evidence?
Few if any listen to the official teachings.
If they did, there would not be a virulent homosexual infestation in the Vatican, that is known, tolerated, and likely celebrated by multiple popes.
There would not be the active and knowing recruitment of legions of homosexual seminary students.
There would not be WORLDWIDE sexual abuse by priests, bishops, and likely cardinals.
There would not be WORLDWIDE coverups of homosexual sexual abuse by priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes (timeline says it occurred under at least 4 pope).
There would not be a WORLDWIDE smorgasbord of personal beliefs among priests, bishops, cardinals, popes, and LAITY.
Listening to this type of false statement you posted sounds exactly like socialists who claim "true communism just hasn't been tried yet" - all the failure is just false communism.
.............
Please post 3 proofs that the Church and magisterial teachings "survive".
Please do not list how long the church has been around. Many religions have been here longer.
I would really like to see you flesh this out and post some proofs that what you are claiming is provable.
If not, you are just wishfully making assertions.
Please post for review.
Time for Bible study regarding John 6:Read carefully what follows for there is a sequence of exchanges which reveal the hearts of the listeners who continued to demand of JESUS what THEY could do to earn something God was offering at no charge to them only to Him.
John 6:
24 When the crowd saw that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they got into these boats and went to Capernaum to look for Jesus. When they had found him on the other side of the sea, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26Jesus replied to them, “Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, you are looking for me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate the loaves and were completely satisfied. Do not work for food that perishes but for food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set his seal on him.” [Notice here that Jesus is establishing the contrast between carnal bread for the stomach and spiritual bread for the soul and spirit. If you miss this entry He gave you will be tempted to focus upon just a carnal meaning.]
Then they asked him, “What must we do to perform God’s works?”These were Jews steeped in doing the works of the law, and failing. To these Jesus came, to offer the Grace of God shown as Promise to forgive their sin for thousands of years through the sacrifice of animals, using the blood to atone. These were people who believed they could earn eternal life by doing, and Jesus was about to reveal the truth regarding their sacrifices and offerings, that these were pointing toward the Grace of God offered to them for one and only one act they could do.
John 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is God’s work: to believe in the one whom he has sent.”
30So they asked him, “What sign are you going to do so that we may see it and believe in you? What actions are you performing? Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, just as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” [Ask yourself, were the Jews in the desert given eternal life by eating the manna? No, the entire denying generation except for Kaleb and Joshua died out there in the desert over a forty year period. God gave them the bread despite their refusal to accept HIS Promise of the Land they were to inhabit. They refused to accept GOD's Grace so they wandered for forty years in the desert being fed manna from God only to die out there.]
32 Jesus told them, “Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. The bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”At this point the commands from GOD to not eat the blood were clear in the minds of these seekers after signs, this throng demanding to know what they could do -like trying to keep the Ten Commandments and the lengthy list of the Laws of Moses- and they were stuck in that rut of them working for eternal life! Pride of their works was in the hearts and they were demanding more signs and more of what they could do to earn ...
These seekers after signs and wonders had God as Jesus right there with them and refused to receive the lesson Jesus just gave them regarding eternal life ONLY by faithing in Him. They were stuck on the carnal so Jesus gave them a shock lesson, which I believe eventually caused some of them to give up and just Trust Messiah, but probably not a majority of them.
Because they knew the commands of God to not eat the blood, JESUS used that to confound their demands:
John 6:35 Jesus told them, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never become hungry, and whoever believes in me will never become thirsty. I told you that you have seen me, yet you don’t believe. Everything the Father gives me will come to me, and I’ll never turn away the one who comes to me. I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of the one who sent me. And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything that he has given me, but should raise it to life on the last day. This is my Father’s will: That everyone who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him to life on the last day.”[There it is again, belief brings the spiritual gift, not the carnal eating. Jesu just repeated what He told them at the beginning of this series of exchanges, that faith in / belief in Whom God has sent is the means by which the Grace of God is active in the believers. That glorifies JESUS, never the doers and seekers of signs and wonders.
41 Then the Jewish leaders began grumbling about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”They kept saying, “This is Jesus, the son of Joseph, isn’t it, whose father and mother we know? So how can he say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”But they continued in their unbelief, so Jesus made it even plainer:
John 6:43 Jesus answered them, “Stop grumbling among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him to life on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And all of them will be taught by God.’ Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned anything comes to me. Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who comes from God. This one has seen the Father. Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, the one who believes in me has eternal life. I’m the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness and died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that a person may eat it and not die. I’m the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats this bread, he’ll live forever. And the bread I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” [Note here that one does not receive a spiritual gift by physically eating it. JESUS emphasizes that BELIEVING / faithing is the way a spiritual gift is received! The manna did not impart spiritual life to the Jews in the desert. That is Jesus teaching them in John 6.]
52 Then the Jewish leaders debated angrily with each other, asking, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” [These were stuck on the carnal and unable to see the spiritual! The Catholic command to eat the real flesh is a living example of the same stuck on the carnal which Jesus gave them over to in their unbelief!]BECAUSE they continued to murmur in UNBELIEF refusing to FAITHE in / trust in / believe in HIM WHOM GOD SENT FOR THEIR DELIVERER, Jesus confounded their unbelief by speaking of a spiritual mystery HE KNEW they would take literally as a physical thing, in their refusal of HIM because they wanted to earn what can only be received by GRACE. JESUS gave them over to their carnal:
John 6:53 So Jesus told them, “Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you don’t have life in yourselves. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I’ll raise him to life on the last day, 55because my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink. The person who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and Iin him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will also live because of me. [Ask yourself, did Jesus eat the flesh of the Father? NO! The sustenance was SPIRITUAL from The Father to Jesus! Jesus faithed in the Father. The bread from the Father was the will of the Father for what HE would do through / by Jesus. The words of the Father, the works of The Father were the meat to Jesus. In a moment Jesus would confirm this to those who stayed with Him who were not stuck in the carnal, stuck at carnal like catholiciism because they wanted to have their works approved. They could not disobey the commands against eating the blood, so they turned away because they wanted their carnal pride to count in God's calculus!] 58This is the bread that came down from heaven, not the kind that your ancestors ate. [It cannot be any plainer than that; Jesus tells them this bread from Heaven is not like the kind you eat into your bellies![ They died, but the one who eats this bread will live forever.” He said this while teaching in the synagogue at Capernaum.The 'eating this bread' refers to a spiritual consuming, as in the remembrance carried out by breaking bread and sipping the wine showing belief in Him Whom GOD sent for eternal life. The eating is a physical act using common substances BUT showing a spiritual belief connection to JESUS.
The noting of where these teachings happened is significant. Capernaum had cliffs with many burial holes in them, where paganized believers brought foods to the dead. It was a place of great superstition and mythical beliefs connected to physical acts enjoining the pagans to mysteries. Jesus just sorted sheep and goats: the sheep remained and the goats departed ...
John 6:60 When many of his disciples heard this, they said, “This is a difficult statement. Who can accept it?”
61 But Jesus, knowing within himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, asked them, “Does this offend you? 62What if you saw the Son of Man going up to the place where he was before? It’s the Spirit who gives life; the flesh accomplishes nothing. The words that I’ve spoken to you are spirit and life. 64But there are some among you who don’t believe {Judas remained with the disciples yet he was not a believer, but most of the followers left because they too were stuck in the carnal mind. Judas believed, he believed Jesus would establish the physical kingdom, but Jesus was teaching all of them spiritual matters, Truths no carnal mind understands even today right here on this thread!)
I'm asking for proof.
I'm asking for proof.
Why?
Do you really think anything I post
to you will convince you to
re-consider your fundamental beliefs or
that your repetitive posting of your own
personal misunderstandings will
persuade me or anyone else to
abandon the
One
True
Holy
Catholic and
Apostolic
Church founded by
Christ Jesus that
built Christendom Western Civilization
7
So in other words, you got nothing.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.