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To: Mrs. Don-o; MHGinTN; metmom
We've discussed this before, and there's no need for you to repeat your arguments to the contrary: I can find them on Google,or enter your username on the FR search function.

Hey, if you're gonna post your position, expect a counter post.

Perhaps you don't think that is actually real or true: but otherwise, it's hard to explain why He said it. When He was challenged on it in John 6, He kept repeating it with all the greater vehemence. People walked away, and He just said it again.

They walked away but not for the reason you state.

John 6:60-69 for context.60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble? 62“What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

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This is what upset the disciples and the others and caused them to walk away. Notice the charge levied against them.

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64“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.

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What is the this that caused them to walk away? The charge of unbelief and His statement that no one can come to Him unless it has been granted from the Father.

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Now, what does Jesus ask the twelve and what is their reply?

67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

69“We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.”

Their reply is key. They did not reply they had eaten/drunk His flesh and blood.

But, they replied they have believed. Which if you go back to the beginning of the exchange between Jesus and the unbelieving Jews what did He tell them?

35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.

37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” JN 6:35-40 NASB

This is the clear consistent teaching John records at least 70+ times in his gospel....believe in Jesus. Not eating/drinking flesh and blood...but believing in Him.

Additionally there is the promise of eternal security in v37. He will not cast us out.

The Greek negation of this part is οὐ μὴ ἐκβάλω.

A literal translation is οὐ (no) μὴ (not) ἐκβάλωno (shall I cast). Using οὐ μὴ is the strongest way to negate in the Greek. When this is combined with an aorist subjunctive verb, in this case ἐκβάλω, it is an absolute and unequivocal denial of the event ever happening.

How secure is the believer?

We have this promise from Jesus in v37. Further, when a person professes faith in Christ, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30).

There is no other way to understand these passages but to say that a believer is always saved because of Christ. He will not go back on His promises.

65 posted on 05/30/2019 8:07:42 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
65And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

I think people downplay this verse far too much...Although there was stirring and grumbling in the ranks, they didn't up and walk away until Jesus said this to them...I believe he exposed to them and everyone else that they not only didn't believe in him, they didn't really believe in God the Father either...

Had they believed in God, God would have revealed Jesus to them...IMHO...

159 posted on 05/30/2019 10:01:32 PM PDT by Iscool
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