Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Modern-day 'Indiana Jones' links Shroud to 1st century
World Net Day ^ | March 23, 2016 | By Jerome R. Corsi

Posted on 03/25/2016 10:10:59 AM PDT by Swordmaker

NEW YORK – An archaeological discovery that appears to place the origin of the Shroud of Turin in first century A.D. conflicts with three independent scientifically conducted radiocarbon 14 tests that estimated a date range of A.D. 1260-1390.

The shroud is believed by many scholars to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

Philip E. Dayvault, a former FBI special agent and physical-science technician who has been studying the Shroud of Turin since 1973, ventured to Turkey on an Indiana Jones-like expedition in 2002. While there, he discovered a small mosaic in a faraway museum maintained by Muslim curators that appears to provide physical corroboration for the existence of the Shroud back in the first century

The mosaic, known as the “ISA Tile,” substantiates the salient points of the synthesized 1,700 year-old “Legend of King Abgar V.” The legend allegedly chronicles how the Shroud of Turin went from Jerusalem to Turkey before arriving in Turin, Italy, where the Catholic Church preserves it in the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist.

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: History; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: shroudofturin; shroudpinglist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-23 next last

1 posted on 03/25/2016 10:10:59 AM PDT by Swordmaker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker

And in 2007 he found divine encoded images of the shroud in the frescos of the Sistine Chapel.

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/136414173.html

Not sure why in 2016 he’s spreading the word of a discovery made 14 years ago, especially considering the number of books, blogs, and press releases he’s made in the intervening period.


2 posted on 03/25/2016 10:17:48 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker

Just goes to show that a picture is worth one thousand words!


3 posted on 03/25/2016 10:18:51 AM PDT by I am Richard Brandon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker

Those other three tests have been debunked so thoroughly they are about at the level of global warming...


4 posted on 03/25/2016 10:20:33 AM PDT by piytar (http://www.truthrevolt.org/videos/bill-whittle-number-one-bullete)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl; albee; AnalogReigns; AnAmericanMother; Angelas; AniGrrl; annalex; annyokie; ...

Shroud of Turin PING:

The KERATIN: A 1st Century Tile w which may be the tile that was placed over the gate of the City of Edessa representing the Shroud of Turin's face.

Thanks to NYer for the heads up.


The Thermion - The Alleged Tile
that Hung Over the Edessa Gate
Ping!

The latest Shroud of Turin Pings can be found by searching Keyword "ShroudPingList" on FreeRepublic's Search.

If you want on or off the Shroud Ping List, Freepmail me

5 posted on 03/25/2016 10:23:42 AM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker; xsmommy

Have you contacted or researched the Shroud Project group in Richmond VA?


6 posted on 03/25/2016 10:34:23 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: kingu

Not sure why in 2016 he’s spreading the word of a discovery made 14 years ago, especially considering the number of books, blogs, and press releases he’s made in the intervening period.


Because it’s Easter.

Usually it’s the leftwing media like Time magazine that will come up with a new expose that Jesus was actually married to Mary Magdalene, that his tomb has been found and he’s in it, that the new Gospel of XYZ demonstrates that women were the head of the church when he died, etc. etc. etc.


7 posted on 03/25/2016 10:34:30 AM PDT by kaehurowing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker
Shroud of Turin is a very interesting story.
But not nearly as interesting as the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Irrefutably true.
8 posted on 03/25/2016 11:00:22 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Psalm 73

Except to those that deny the truth before them. True by all the standards of the day, and true today.


9 posted on 03/25/2016 11:23:09 AM PDT by whistleduck ("....the calm confidence of a Christian with 4 aces".....S.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: piytar

Exactly - the samples were taken from a repaired section at the edge. Subsequent tests showed RC dating of first century.


10 posted on 03/25/2016 11:24:15 AM PDT by TheTimeOfMan (Three Percenter - Cruz/West)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: pieta; NYer
Those other three tests have been debunked so thoroughly they are about at the level of global warming...

For those who don't know, the C-14 tests failed from the very beginning when the agreed on original sampling protocols,—which called for eight samples from eight different locations on the Shroud—were tossed out literally at the last minute, and only one sample was taken from only one location on the Shroud, a location which all of the members of the 1978 Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP) had agreed should not be among the sampled areas due to it being physically and chemically different from the main body of the Shroud in testing done at that time.

That sample taken was then cut into five sub-samples, which were labeled A through E according to the distance from the edge of the Shroud. The sub-samples were then distributed to the three C-14 labs. The University of Arizona C-14 Lab, as the most experienced of the three labs, was sent samples A & E; Zurich, Switzerland, was sent Sample B: Sample C was retained as a control exemplar: and Oxford University in London received Sample D. The second error was that the sub-samples were sent to the labs as complete cloth samples, instead of being unwoven and submitted as unidentifiable threads, making it easy to identify the Shroud sample from control samples due to the distinctive weave. Had they merely submitted all samples as a pile of threads, no sample bias could have been possible. but by submitting pieces of the cloth for both target and controls, all three labs knew which was which, ruining all semblance of unbiased testing.

When the results were reported, the controlling organization, Oxford University, impermissibly AVERAGED all the results together in their reports and ignored a huge red flag that not a single individual sub-sample's result's degree of confidence overlapped the degree of confidence in the results of the returned test results. Had this been any other test subject, it would have made the scientists running the test question their test sample's homogeneity. In fact, the University of Arizona also impermissibly averaged their Sample A and E results in which were so far away from each other that statistically they could NOT have come from the same test subject! Those two samples returned dates of 1260 AD and 1390 AD each with a degree of confidence of plus or minus 25 years.

For these two samples to have come from a homogeneous sample, the degrees of confidence should overlap. Yet to do that, the test would have to report much closer dating. In this instance, the closest possible dates of these samples would be 1285 and 1365, leaving a gap of 80 years. The degree of confidence would have to be plus of minus 65 or more years!

What it has been learned is that the three C-14 labs accurately and professionally tested what they were given. . . samples of an area of the Shroud of Turin that had been extremely skillfully patched by reweaving cotton threads into the existing Linen threads of the original material sometime in the late 16th or early 17th centuries using a technique called "French Invisible Reweaving" in which the newer threads, dyed to match, are actually twisted end-to-end into the original threads and then continue the original weave pattern. This technique was developed in the 15th Century to repair valuable wall hangings, tapestries, and arrases. The corner of the Shroud where the C-14 sample was taken was one of the two most handled corners of the Shroud, the two that were used to hang the Shroud multiple times for exhibition and indeed was right next to a much less skillful patch.

In 2003, Raymond N. Rogers, a pyrologist Chemist, intending to falsify the patch theory, obtained some threads and microphotographs of Sub-sample C, the control sample retained from the original C-14 main sample for testing. To his shock, he found that instead of falsifying the hypothesis, he confirmed it when he discovered that one side of the sample was composed of dyed cotton threads while the other side was flaxen linen threads and that the two were skillfully interwoven. The photomicrograph showed a distinct demarkation between the two and chemical tests showed a distinctive difference in makeup. The threads he obtained could be un-twisted at the joins. The Cotton threads are slightly thinner than the Linen threads. The Cotton threads have a coating of dye, a fixative of gum arabic to retain the dye, and were retted with another processes using an aluminum compound which was not present in the Linen, all of which accounts for the physical and chemical differences noted by the 1978 STURP scientists.

These findings were published in a peer reviewed scientific Journal. Two other, independent researchers, using different approaches, one coming from a statistical, mathematical model, the other working with other thread samples also confirmed the patch hypothesis, and Falsified the 1988 C-14 tests .

When the statistical examination of the raw data was analyzed, it was found that as the samples were tested, each one reported a date that was younger the closer one got to the edge of the Shroud. The photomicrograph of the Sample shows a subtle diagonal difference between left and right indicating that the majority of older material is greater the farther from the edge of the Cloth. This greater amount of older material is proportional to the older ages reported by each sub-sample in each test, the farther the sub-sample was from the edge. I.E., Subsample A was reported as the youngest, with the creation date of 1390 while sub-sample E came back with the oldest dating at 1260. The percentages of new threads to old varied from 60% to 40% with sub-sample A at the edge, to 40% to 60% at sample E.

Harry Gove, the inventor of the C-14 test used on the Shroud, when asked what the age of the original Linen would have had to have been if the Cotton was 16th-17th Century to skew the tested age to 1350 with an averaged 50% mix. He did some calculations using the standard formulas, and came up with 1st Century, plus of minus 100 years.

11 posted on 03/25/2016 11:33:48 AM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker; SunkenCiv

aluminum in the cotton threads

SC, that’s what I was trying to remember about metal being in the Shroud when I asked you the other day. I was off on the wrong track.

( Lost in the wilderness again:<} )


12 posted on 03/25/2016 11:57:23 AM PDT by Rockpile (GOP legislators-----caviar eating surrender monkeys.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: All; NYer
My comment on this Keramion (I have to be very watchful the auto-correct doesn't change this word on posting! It's done it TWICE now to two different words: into "Keratin" and "thermion" LOL!) is that there is really no way to date a tessera, a mosaic tile. This tile could have been made any time from several centuries before the first century to several centuries after the first century. This tessera tile could have been made at some time after the Shroud became known. . . Attributing it to the 1st Century is problematic and is only wishful thinking on the part of Dayvault.

The assumption that this IS the tile that hung over the gate of Edessa is just that, an assumption. Yes, there are several identifying marks that are extremely similar to the Face on the Shroud of Turin, notably the swelling under the left eye, the representation of the blood trace on the forehead and in the hair, and the owlish eyes. But there are others that are missing, such as the forked beard, the line from the fold across the neck, and there is a distinct ear showing while the Shroud shows none (that may be an artistic license for realism).

We need a lot more provenance before making any conclusions about this intriguing tile.

13 posted on 03/25/2016 11:57:36 AM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Rockpile
aluminum in the cotton threads

SC, that’s what I was trying to remember about metal being in the Shroud when I asked you the other day. I was off on the wrong track.

( Lost in the wilderness again:<} )

It's Alum. Hydrated potassium aluminum sulfate (potassium alum) with the formula KAl(SO4)2·12H2O.

It was used in the dyeing process.

14 posted on 03/25/2016 12:03:26 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker; NYer

Thanks for posting the detailed explanation! (I’m working so did not have time to track it down and post.)


15 posted on 03/25/2016 12:17:23 PM PDT by piytar (http://www.truthrevolt.org/videos/bill-whittle-number-one-bullete)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Rockpile

:’)


16 posted on 03/25/2016 12:19:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Have you contacted or researched the Shroud Project group in Richmond VA?

No, I haven't. Are they doing anything new or different?

17 posted on 03/25/2016 12:38:44 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker
independent scientifically conducted radiocarbon 14 tests that estimated a date range of A.D. 1260-1390.

I thought these were determined to be flawed and invalid tests.

18 posted on 03/25/2016 12:38:46 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (#BlackOlivesMatter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Swordmaker; xsmommy

I attended one of their presentations (by a scholar at the center) down in Chesapeake VA (south of Norfolk) on March 11.

Excellent info, good details.

http://richmondmonks.org/home/shroud-of-turin-center/

I have not been in Richmond itself for many years, so I have no experience at the Abby itself.


19 posted on 03/25/2016 1:03:31 PM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Those radiocarbon test were made on the place on the shroud that were handled by the monks/priests holding it up each week. The corners were also contaminated by repairs made in that same period.

The (single) radiocarbon test strip was NOT redundant - made from different areas of the shroud and was not taken from a clean area, and it was NOT duplicated by other labs. Only by the single test from the single contaminated location. Kind of like trying to determine the age of your 120,000 car by sampling the oil - 2000 miles after it has been changed.

The test did verify the shroud was handled in the Middle Ages. It did NOT verify the Shroud was woven in the Middle Ages.


20 posted on 03/25/2016 2:32:22 PM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-23 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson