Posted on 01/01/2016 5:55:35 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson
Happy New Year.
I promise there will be some actual 160-year-old information to present later on, but for now let us continue catching up on . . .
Continued from 1855 reply #371
"The Life and Times of Frederick Douglass," by Frederick Douglass, (1892 edition)
Re; the Zollicoffer-Stephens exchange. It is interesting that neither mentioned the Northwest Ordinance which clearly established the principle that Congress could indeed ban slavery from the territories.
Are you really comparing the ranting of a lunatic left-wing feminist hustler with Fredrick Douglass's story of life as a slave?
Really????
As I understand it, by 1854 Irene Emerson had pretty much left all interests in the Scotts with her brother, John F. A. Sanford. She had moved to Massachusetts in 1850 and married a physician named Calvin Chaffee. When the suit was submitted to the higher court in 1854 it named only Sanford as a defendant and had in a way upped the ante.
The argument in federal court was now claiming that Sanford, as a freeman, was a "citizen" of Missouri. This allowed him to file suit against Sanford of New York in federal court.
All the time that this case, and the other cases, were pending, the Scott's had been rented out and the fees collected had been placed in escrow. A tidy little sum was building up that would be given to whoever was determined the true owner of Scott.
This new suit charged that Sanford, the only one named and the only one now seen as holding Scott in servitude, was in fact guilty of battery and wrongful imprisonment and was asking for $9,000 in damages.
This is really where the argument as to whether Scott was or was not a citizen of the United States. This would determine if he could actually file a suit in the first place.
There is dispute whether Irene had actually given full custody to Sanford or if he had only become the sole interested executor of the "property" (the Scotts). But the case was filed only against Sanford and neither party ever disputed whether the appropriate party was being sued so it is likely that Mrs. Emerson was completely out of the picture by this point.
I sort of followed the change from Emerson to Sanford. My real question is, where did the extra “d” in Sandford come from?
"The Life and Times of Frederick Douglass," by Frederick Douglass, (1892 edition)
I went to St. Michaels to live in March 1833. I know the year because it was the one succeeding the first cholera in Baltimore, and was also the year of that strange phenomenon when the heaves seems about to part with their starry train. I witnessed this gorgeous spectacle, and was awestruck. The air seemed filled with bright descending messengers from the sky. It was about daybreak when I saw this sublime scene. I was not without the suggestion, at the moment, that it might be the harbinger of the coming of the Son of Man, and in my then state of mind I was prepared to hail Him as my friend and deliverer. ..............
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=comet+1833&qpvt=COMET+1833&qpvt=COMET+1833&FORM=IGRE
Historical info on comet:
http://leonid.arc.nasa.gov/history.html
Slaveholders I held to be individually and collectively responsible for all the evils which grew out of the horrid relation, and I believed they would be held so held in the sight of God.
Now read it again a little more objectively. Note the issue is slaveholders, not race. Is he being politically correct? Recognizing that it was known that some slaveholders were black? The editor’s work? Or is it his real thinking?
I grew up with “whether yellow black or white, all are precious in his sight.” But I hate to say it, but Zero, “the great divider”, is getting his job done.
bttt, good work
Slaves too, readily distinguish between the birthright bearing of the original slaveholder and the assumed attitudes of the accidental slaveholder; and while they could have no respect for either, they despise the latter more than the former.
Uncle Toms Cabin
Might want to put on your list.
http://www.harrietbeecherstowecenter.org/utc/
An interesting review of the times regarding the promotion of Uncle Toms Cabin:
https://nationalera.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/the-uncle-toms-cabin-phenomenon/
The novel’s centrality to the coming of the Civil War and the abolition of slavery was suggested by none other than Abraham Lincoln, who was rumored to have said, upon meeting Stowe, “So this is the little lady who wrote the book that started this great war.”[xxi]
https://nationalera.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/the-uncle-toms-cabin-phenomenon/
It was a misspelling by a clerk at the US Supreme Court.
I figured it was something like that but I would have thought a book as comprehensive as the one I read and posted about would have explained that. Unless I missed it, it didn’t.
Oh that. John Sanford spelt his name with one “d”, but when the case went to the U.S. Supreme Court, the Supreme Court reporter mistakenly put the other “d” in the middle. So that is there because of a clerical error.
Even taking Douglas at his word for everything, it's no doubt that this is something might be something that was SELECTED to be taught in schools by the victorious North.
Not taught AT ALL is Fremantle's Three Month's in the Southern States. Fremantle was a British soldier on leave, supposedly anti-Slavery, who crossed from Mexico into Texas and made his way up to Pennsylvania and thence to New York to return to his home. As he made his way he kept a diary, and managed to meet many of the major players along his way.
Below I reproduce every paragraph from the diary that contains the word slave (or slaves or slavery).
ML/NJ
>>>
At the outbreak of the American war, in common with many of my countrymen, I felt very indifferent as to which side might win; but if I had any bias, my sympathies were rather in favour of the North, on account of the dislike which an Englishman naturally feels at the idea of Slavery. But soon a sentiment of great admiration for the gallantry and determination of the Southerners, together with the unhappy contrast afforded by the foolish bullying conduct of the Northerners, caused a complete revulsion in my feelings, and I was unable to repress a strong wish to go to America and see something of this wonderful struggle. At the outbreak of the
American war, in common with many of my countrymen, I felt very indifferent as to which side might win; but if I had any bias, my sympathies were rather in favour of the North, on account of the dislike which an Englishman naturally feels at the idea of Slavery. But soon a sentiment of great admiration for the gallantry and determination of the Southerners, together with the unhappy contrast afforded by the foolish bullying conduct of the Northerners, caused a complete revulsion in my feelings, and I was unable to repress a strong wish to go to America and see something of this wonderful struggle.
About three miles beyond this we came to Colonel Duff's encampment. He is a fine-looking, handsome Scotchman, and received me with much hospitality. His regiment consisted of newly-raised volunteers--a very fine body of young men, who were drilling in squads. They were dressed in every variety of costume, many of them without coats, but all wore the high black felt hat. Notwithstanding the peculiarity of their attire, there was nothing ridiculous or contemptible in the appearance of these men, who all looked thoroughly like "business." Colonel Duff told me that many of the privates owned vast tracts of country, with above a hundred slaves, and were extremely well off. They were all most civil to me.
With regard to the contentment of their slaves, Colonel Duff pointed out a good number they had with them, who had only to cross the river for freedom if they wished it.
We went on again at 2 P.M. I had a long talk with a big mulatto slave woman, who was driving one of Ward's waggons. She told me she had been raised in Tennessee, and that three years ago she had been taken from her mistress for a bad debt, to their mutual sorrow. "Both," she said, "cried bitterly at parting." She doesn't like San Antonio at all, "too much hanging and murdering for me," she said. She had seen a man hanged in the middle of the day, just in front of her door.
[11 (a footnote)] However happy and well off the slaves may be as a general rule, yet there must be many instances (like that of Mr Sargent) of ill-treatment and cruelty. Mr Sargent is a Northerner by birth, and is without any of the kind feeling which is nearly always felt by Southerners for negroes.--July 1863.
The conversation turned a good deal upon military subjects, and all agreed that the system of election of officers had proved to be a great mistake. According to their own accounts, discipline must have been extremely lax at first, but was now improving. They were most anxious to hear what was thought of their cause in Europe; and none of them seemed aware of the great sympathy which their gallantry and determination had gained for them in England in spite of slavery.
As a great favour, my British prejudices were respected, and I was allowed a bed to myself; but the four other beds in the room had two occupants each. A captain, whose acquaintance I had made in the cars, slept in the next bed to me. Directly after we had got into bed a negro came in, who, squatting down between our beds, began to clean our boots. The Southerner pointed at the slave, and thus held forth:--"Well, Kernel, I reckon you've got servants in your country, but not of that colour. Now, sir, this is a real genuine African. He's as happy as the day's long; and if he was on a sugar plantation he'd be dancing half the night; but if you was to collect a thousand of them together, and fire one bomb in amongst them, they'd all run like h----ll." The negro grinned, and seemed quite flattered.
I was also introduced to another "character," Captain Chubb, who told me he was a Yankee by birth, and served as coxswain to the United States ship Java in 1827. He was afterwards imprisoned at Boston on suspicion of being engaged in the slave trade; but he escaped. At the beginning of this war he was captured by the Yankees, when he was in command of the Confederate States steamer Royal Yacht, and taken to New York in chains, where he was condemned to be hung as a pirate; but he was eventually exchanged. I was afterwards told that the slave-trading escapade of which he was accused consisted in his having hired a coloured crew at Boston, and then coolly selling them at Galveston.
4th May (Monday).--General Scurry's servant "John" had been most attentive since he had been told off to me. I made him a present of my evening clothes, which gratified him immensely; and I shook hands with him at parting, which seems to be quite the custom. The Southern gentlemen are certainly able to treat their slaves with extraordinary familiarity and kindness. John told me that the General would let him buy his freedom whenever he chose. He is a barber by trade, and was earning much money when he insisted on rejoining his master and going to the wars.
The Mississippi planter had abandoned his estate near Vicksburg, and withdrawn with the remnant of his slaves into Texas. The Judge also had lost all his property in New Orleans. In fact, every other man one meets has been more or less ruined since the war, but all speak of their losses with the greatest equanimity.
To my surprise all the party were willing to agree that a few years ago most educated men in the south regarded slavery as a misfortune and not justifiable, though necessary under the circumstances. But the meddling, coercive conduct of the detested and despised abolitionists had caused the bonds to be drawn much tighter.
My fellow-travellers of all classes are much given to talk to me about their "peculiar institution," and they are most anxious that I should see as much of it as possible, in order that I may be convinced that it is not so bad as has been represented, and that they are not all "Legrees," although they do not attempt to deny that there are many instances of cruelty. But they say a man who is known to illtreat his negroes is hated by all the rest of the community. They declare that Yankees make the worst masters when they settle in the South; and all seem to be perfectly aware that slavery, which they did not invent, but which they inherited from us (English), is and always will be the great bar to the sympathy of the civilised world. I have heard these words used over and over again.
We met several planters on the road, who with their families and negroes were taking refuge in Texas, after having abandoned their plantations in Louisiana on the approach of Banks. One of them had as many as sixty slaves with him of all ages and sizes.
9th May (Saturday).--Started again by stage for Munroe at 4.30 A.M. My companions were, the Mississippi planter, a mad dentist from New Orleans (called, by courtesy, doctor), an old man from Matagorda, buying slaves cheap in Louisiana, a wounded officer, and a wounded soldier.
9th May (Saturday).--Started again by stage for Munroe at 4.30 A.M. My companions were, the Mississippi planter, a mad dentist from New Orleans (called, by courtesy, doctor), an old man from Matagorda, buying slaves cheap in Louisiana, a wounded officer, and a wounded soldier.
12th May (Tuesday).--Shortly after daylight three negroes arrived from Harrisonburg, and they described the fight as still going on. They said they were "dreadful skeered;" and one of them told me he would "rather be a slave to his master all his life, than a white man and a soldier."
We left Natchez at 12 noon, and were driven by a negro named Nelson; the carriage and the three horses belong to him, and he drives it for his own profit; but he is, nevertheless, a slave, and pays his owner $4-1/2 a-week to be allowed to work on his own account. He was quite as vain as and even more amusing than Tucker. He said he "didn't want to see no Yanks, nor to be no freer than he is;" and he thought the war had already lasted four or five years.
We slept at a farmhouse. All the males were absent at the war, and it is impossible to exaggerate the unfortunate condition of the women left behind in these farmhouses; they have scarcely any clothes, and nothing but the coarsest bacon to eat, and are in miserable uncertainty as to the fate of their relations, whom they can hardly ever communicate with. Their slaves, however, generally remain true to them.
After dinner, I asked Mr Harrold to take me over the quarters of his slaves, which he did immediately. The huts were comfortable and very clean; the negroes seemed fond of their master, but he told me they were suffering dreadfully from the effects of the war--he had so much difficulty in providing them with clothes and shoes. I saw an old woman in one of the huts, who had been suffering from an incurable disease for thirteen years, and was utterly useless. She was evidently well cared for, and was treated with affection and care. At all events, she must have benefited largely by the "peculiar institution."
I have often told these planters that I thought the word "slave" was the most repulsive part of the institution, and I have always observed they invariably shirk using it themselves. They speak of their servant, their boy, or their negroes, but never of their slaves. They address a negro as boy or girl, or uncle or aunty.
The General with his Staff and myself rode into Canton, six miles, and lodged in the house of a planter who owned 700 slaves.
[43, a footnote] I cut this out of a Charleston paper some days after I had parted from Colonel Grenfell: Colonel Grenfellwas only obeying General Bragg's orders in depriving the soldier of his horse, and temporarily of his money:--
"COLONEL ST LEGER GRENFELL.--The Western army correspondent of the 'Mobile Register' writes as follows:--The famous Colonel St Leger Grenfell, who served with Morgan last summer, and since that time has been Assistant Inspector-General of General Bragg, was arrested a few days since by the civil authorities. The sheriff and his officers called upon the bold Englishman before he had arisen in the morning, and after the latter had performed his toilet duties he buckled on his belt and trusty pistols. The officer of the law remonstrated, and the Englisher damned, and a struggle of half an hour ensued, in which the stout Britisher made a powerful resistance, but, by overpowering force, was at last placed hors de combat and disarmed.
After waiting in vain until 5 P.M., and seeing no signs of anything more taking place, Colonel Richmond and I cantered back to Shelbyville. We were accompanied by a detachment of General Polk's body-guard, which was composed of young men of good position in New Orleans. Most of them spoke in the French language, and nearly all had slaves in the field with them, although they ranked only as private soldiers, and had to perform the onerous duties of orderlies (or couriers, as they are called). On our way back we heard heavy firing on our left, from the direction in which General Withers was conducting his share of the reconnaissance with two other infantry brigades.
I had intended to have visited Mr Blake, an English gentleman for whom I had a letter, on his Combahee plantation, but Mr Robertson implored me to abandon this idea. Mr Robertson was full of the disasters which had resulted from a recent Yankee raid of the Combahee river. It appears that a vast amount of property had been destroyed and slaves carried off. This morning I saw a poor old planter in Mr Robertson's office, who had been suddenly and totally ruined by this raid. The raiders consisted principally of Northern armed negroes, and as they met with no Southern whites to resist them, they were able to effect their depredations with total impunity. It seems that a good deal of the land about Charleston belongs either to Blakes or Heywards. Mr Blake lost thirty negroes in the last raid, but he has lost since the beginning of the war about 150.
An immense amount of speculation in blockade-running was going on, and a great deal of business is evidently done in buying and selling negroes, for the papers are full of advertisements of slave auctions. That portion of the city destroyed by the great fire presents the appearance of a vast wilderness in the very centre of the town, no attempt having been made towards rebuilding it; this desert space looks like the Pompeian ruins, and extends, Mr Robertson says, for a mile in length by half a mile in width. Nearly all the distance between the Mills House hotel and Charleston hotel is in this desolate state. The fire began quite by accident, but the violent wind which suddenly arose rendered all attempts to stop the flames abortive. The deserted state of the wharves is melancholy--the huge placards announcing lines of steamers to New York, New Orleans, and to different parts of the world, still remain, and give one an idea of what a busy scene they used to be. The people, however, all seem happy, contented, and determined. Both the great hotels are crowded; and well dressed, handsome ladies are plentiful; the fare is good, and the charge at the Charleston hotel is eight dollars a day.
12th June (Friday).--I called at an exchange office this morning, and asked the value of gold: they offered me six to one for it. I went to a slave auction at 11; but they had been so quick about it that the whole affair was over before I arrived, although I was only ten minutes late. The negroes--about fifteen men, three women, and three children--were seated on benches, looking perfectly contented and indifferent. I saw the buyers opening the mouths and showing the teeth of their new purchases to their friends in a very business-like manner. This was certainly not a very agreeable spectacle to an Englishman, and I know that many Southerners participate in the same feeling; for I have often been told by people that they had never seen a negro sold by auction, and never wished to do so. It is impossible to mention names in connection with such a subject, but I am perfectly aware that many influential men in the South feel humiliated and annoyed with several of the incidents connected with slavery; and I think that if the Confederate States were left alone, the system would be much modified and amended, although complete emancipation cannot be expected; for the Southerners believe it to be as impracticable to cultivate cotton on a large scale in the South, without forced black labour, as the British have found it to produce sugar in Jamaica; and they declare that the example the English have set them of sudden emancipation in that island is by no means encouraging. They say that that magnificent colony, formerly so wealthy and prosperous, is now nearly valueless--the land going out of cultivation--the Whites ruined--the Blacks idle, slothful, and supposed to be in a great measure relapsing into their primitive barbarism.
25th June (Thursday).--We took leave of Mrs ----and her hospitable family, and started at 10 A.M. to overtake Generals Lee and Longstreet, who were supposed to be crossing the Potomac at Williamsport. Before we had got more than a few miles on our way, we began to meet horses and oxen, the first fruits of Ewell's advance into Pennsylvania. The weather was cool and showery, and all went swimmingly for the first fourteen miles, when we caught up M'Laws's division, which belongs to Longstreet's corps. As my horse about this time began to show signs of fatigue, and as Lawley's pickaxed most alarmingly, we turned them into some clover to graze, whilst we watched two brigades pass along the road. They were commanded, I think, by Semmes and Barksdale,[53] and were composed of Georgians, Mississippians, and South Carolinians. They marched very well, and there was no attempt at straggling; quite a different state of things from Johnston's men in Mississippi. All were well shod and efficiently clothed. In rear of each regiment were from twenty to thirty negro slaves, and a certain number of unarmed men carrying stretchers and wearing in their hats the red badges of the ambulance corps;--this is an excellent institution, for it prevents unwounded men falling out on pretence of taking wounded to the rear. The knapsacks of the men still bear the names of the Massachusetts, Vermont, New Jersey, or other regiments to which they originally belonged. There were about twenty waggons to each brigade, most of which were marked U.S., and each of these brigades was about 2800 strong. There are four brigades in M'Laws's division. All the men seemed in the highest spirits, and were cheering and yelling most vociferously.
I saw a most laughable spectacle this afternoon--viz., a negro dressed in full Yankee uniform, with a rifle at full cock, leading along a barefooted white man, with whom he had evidently changed clothes. General Longstreet stopped the pair, and asked the black man what it meant. He replied, "The two soldiers in charge of this here Yank have got drunk, so for fear he should escape I have took care of him, and brought him through that little town." The consequential manner of the negro, and the supreme contempt with which he spoke to his prisoner, were most amusing. This little episode of a Southern slave leading a white Yankee soldier through a Northern village, alone and of his own accord, would not have been gratifying to an abolitionist. Nor would the sympathisers both in England and in the North feel encouraged if they could hear the language of detestation and contempt with which the numerous negroes with the Southern armies speak of their liberators.{63]
[63, afootnote] From what I have seen of the Southern negroes, I am of opinion that the Confederates could, if they chose, convert a great number into soldiers; and from the affection which undoubtedly exists as a general rule between the slaves and their masters, I think that they would prove more efficient than black troops under any other circumstances. But I do not imagine that such an experiment will be tried, except as a very last resort, partly on account of the great value of the negroes, and partly because the Southerners consider it improper to introduce such an element on a large scale into civilised warfare. Any person who has seen negro features convulsed with rage, may form a slight estimate of what the result would be of arming a vast number of blacks, rousing their passions, and then allowing them free scope.
[Fremantle has crossed over to the North]
The people who can't pay $300 naturally hate being forced to fight in order to liberate the very race who they are most anxious should be slaves. It is their direct interest not only that all slaves should remain slaves, but that the free Northern negroes who compete with them for labour should be sent to the South also.
<<<
I am not sure if anyone else linked this, but I saw this article about non-US slaves and read it over the weekend:
It is an interesting tale.
Even taking Douglas at his word for everything, it’s no doubt that this is something might be something that was SELECTED to be taught in schools by the victorious North.
I worked through the farm crises in the 80’s. The media would have us believe every farmer was going broke. I was analyzing their records and the truth was about a 3rd were going broke, a 3rd were breaking even and about a 3rd were making some pretty good money. But no one wanted to talk about the third that were making money because it didn’t fit the agenda. And the Profitable ones didn’t want to be noticed either.
I did some research on the great depression and it was about the same. NOT EVERY ONE WENT BROKE in the Great Depression.
I would propose that the same ratio might apply to slavery. A third were treated badly, a third were ok and a third of the slaves were very happy with their lot in life.
I have been to Africa and the ones I encountered all would give their right harm to have what our “poor” discriminated black people have. The have no respect for the black culture here.
So, where does that leave us regarding the civil war? The focal point was the issue of slavery. But there was much more in the background.
This is not to say the truth is relative. The truth is the truth and it often complicated but NEVER relative.
I appreciate the points your reference made.
It is an interesting tale.
You cannot just pull a number out of you @$$ and assume it as fact. It is much more reasonable to question sources promoted by the victors (Uncle Tom's Cabin, &c.) just as I assume you automatically question NY Times and CNN, if you pay any attention to them at all. I don't. These days I pay much more attention to reports of people who actually saw what happened.
And sometimes you just have to read the tealeaves. The war wasn't about slavery. It might have been for some Southerners, but they weren't the aggressors, Yankee history notwithstanding. Only a small number of Northerners cared about Slavery, That isn't the reason they invaded the South. (Please spare me the nonsense about Sumter. First of all, it was occupied territory, sort of like Fort Ticonderoga. And even if one thinks the Carolinians not at all justified, why did the Yankees attack Virginia and down to Mississippi?)
ML/NJ
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