Posted on 06/20/2013 12:01:02 PM PDT by Resettozero
Recently I was asked about a very difficult situation.
A woman has been married to a man with a long-term addiction to pornography. The last few years he’s been trying to stop, but by his own efforts alone. When she asks him if he’s struggling he will deny it. She finds out he’s using again and then has the double-hurt of his use and his lying.
At one point, with her husband’s permission, she talked with their pastor (who is also her husband’s brother) about this situation. He told her that her husband had to seek help (true) and that there was nothing he could do (not necessarily true). He then said a prayer. If her hope was for anything more than that, she was disappointed.
She concluded this part of her story (there is another piece of the story we’ll take up in subsequent post) by saying “this problem has gone on for so long I don’t talk to my husband about it anymore.”
(Excerpt) Read more at covenanteyes.com ...
In the sense of ownership? No. In the sense of mutually exclusive commitment? Of course.
No, he doesn’t [get a pass on porn]. However, to fix the problem of his porn use the solution requires them figuring out how to talk to each other to meet each other’s needs.
Then he will need to find it within himself to do that. She is no more responsible for his unwillingness or inability to do that than the man on the moon.
I’m intent on showing that a husband and wife are supposed to have sex with one another. Them not having sex = problems. Is that the case here? I don’t know. Is it a possibility? Absolutely.
As far as I know, there is no sex quota delineated in the Bible or anywhere that married couples are compelled to follow. It's very, very difficult for me reading your statements not to hear you saying that she needs to have sex with him anytime he demands it. Sorry, FRiend, that's just what comes across here, and with it, your de facto belief that this guy's porn problem can and should be his wife's responsiblity.
I believe that it bears down to life choices that lead to addiction. Psycologicaly addicting is addicting just the same and can be as hard to break as physical addictions.
Bad news for porno’s and pot smokers.
It would not take much to make the case that sexual fantasy, fundamental to mb, is porn. The function of porn is titilation, hence mb.
Not to be argumentative but the facile acceptance of mb as normal and healthy is destructive of healthy sexuality. If the man in the case study were not masturbating he would have no interest in porn. He does not always engage in sexual relations with his wife to satisfy his sexuality. That is the requirement.
Actually, I never said a word about sacrifice.
“In the sense of ownership? No.”
And that is why we disagree. :)
Remember, in a marriage the two become one flesh, so that they are no longer 2 but one. Sex is a part of marriage and if a wife isn’t willing to have sex with her husband when he asks for it then something is wrong here.
Would you give the husband a pass if he said, no, sorry. Maybe when I’m feeling up to it?
“He knows it’s a problem, and has “tried to stop with his own efforts.” “
These are important. He *is* trying. The job of the article is to find an effective way of helping him to overcome. I don’t think there’s anything helpful in this article.
“The author/counselor is left with the correct decision to give advice to the ADULT who DID seek help.”
Unfortunately the help he gave won’t resolve the issue. That’s my problem with it. Do I know the answer to the question of: “What does he want?” no, no I don’t - which is why the wife needs to find this out.
By that logic, she’d do a maid? ;)
Which leads me back to my original premise: your real issue here is your assumption that the wife doesn't put out, whenever and however the husband demands, and as such he gets a pass for whatever other avenues he chooses for his own personal gratification. Reread your beloved Corinthians. Does it say "... and if the wife doesn't, the husband is free to jack off to whatever he wants?" Crude, yes, but it matches your own perfectly.
Would you give the husband a pass if he said, no, sorry. Maybe when I’m feeling up to it?
Ummm... yes, I would. But curiously, you don't see this as valid in the reverse situation.
This is a divide we will not cross. Thank you for the discussion.
Again, I answer. None.
Agree with all you wrote. Just hoping that the one or two FReepers who could benefit from this article and it’s website aren’t being discouraged from visiting the website and considering what it’s offering.
“as such he gets a pass for whatever other avenues he chooses for his own personal gratification”
Never said this. I said he’s responsible for what he’s done. Someone sinning against you isn’t justification for you, yourself engaging in sin.
We have an obligation to avoid sin. We also have an obligation to help others avoid sin. If a wife knows that her husband struggles with this - then charity would suggest that the wife do what she can to help her husband overcome.
This includes not putting him into situations that cultivate temptation. And yes, as a wife that means having sex on a regular basis.
“you don’t see this as valid in the reverse situation.”
As a husband I would see it as part of my duty. It would be like me saying, “I don’t feel well enough to go to work, so I can stay home and do nothing”. Part of my job as a husband is to provide for my wife - which means going out to work even if I’m not at my best.
your point is?...
So why is it easier for him to use porn than to talk to his wife? There’s serious, serious problems in their marriage that go well beyond the porn and have nothing to do with it.
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Or a serious problem with a man who cannot communicate or is focused on sex being a physical release and nothing else.
And some women are not warm and loving and basically drive their husbands to porn.
Not that it then becomes okay for him to indulge, but let’s recognize that some women are not interested in meeting their husband’s sexual needs. Some women are selfish, just like some men are selfish. Or sometimes they have “issues” that make it difficult for them to participate passionately.
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I agree. I cannot understand why cold fish marry. But there are just as many warm women who compete with the hand.
Agreed.
The marriage agreement has, to me, always seemed to be one whereby both parties agree to give up sex with others in return for the agreement that each will do everything he/she can to meet the sexual needs of the other.
But fairly often one party (most of the time the woman) decides she doesn’t want to be involved sexually anymore. Which means, if her husband takes his marriage vows sexually, that he has taken an involuntary vow of celibacy.
It has always seemed to me that this is (almost) as much a betrayal of the marriage contract as adultery itself. But then I’ve always been weird.
Exceptions, obviously, for situations where one party becomes incapable of sexual activity. But just deciding unilaterally that the marriage will in future be sexless is pretty cold.
It has always seemed to me that this is (almost) as much a betrayal of the marriage contract as adultery itself. But then I’ve always been weird.
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I agree again. Sexually dead spouses emotionally kill their mates.
“Sin meets a need. Just saying, ‘It’s a sin’, doesn’t attempt to get at the why.”
Well, you are questioning the word of God, here. I can’t help you.
I don’t deny that a wife who refuses to do it is sinning, also.
But I don’t assume that married men who use porn are all getting shut down in the bedroom. I can’t prove it, but anecdotally, this is not usually the case.
Relationship is messy and requires give and take.
The same arguments can be used with polygamy vs. monogamy.
“I don’t deny that a wife who refuses to do it is sinning, also.”
And that’s the point I’m trying to raise. We all hear about the men, but we don’t see the other end of things.
“a man who cannot communicate”
Communication is two-way. Like I said they have some serious marital problems that go well beyond the porn.
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